What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

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MichaelB
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What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:40 pm

OK, so the plunge has been taken and a power meter purchased (FSA Powerbox for those that haven't read the other thread).

OK, so I'm on basic Strava, but all rides are private (except the odd one), and don't have followers, do any following or kudosing either.

That said, I'm playing around with what programs to use to help inform me of how I'm going. Note that I'm not ever going to aim to become a Masters champion or become a KOM hunter. That said, here is what I have found, and am interested in what others have found also.

One final caveat - I'm a Wahoovian, therefore, any program I use will basically be one of those where the rides can be directly uploaded to that program as I'm do lazy to do it manually via laptop. :)

Strava Premium - $8/month - give a couple of minor benefits (Power curve, F/F/F graph and a US$20 discount voucher for Wiggle). Other than that, not much. App doesn't do the same as the web (Power curve or F/F/F graph), so that's a big X against it.

Stravastix - - $nix (but you can contribute to the developer via Paypal) - a bit better tracking and data analysis (better layout for F/F/F graph and auto imports all your Starva data. Only on computer though, no App plugin available. Need to have more of a play.

Training Peaks - US$31/mth or $180 per year through the app (although if you do it via the web, its US$120, so that's < A$150/yr .. ??) - like the calendar layout and weekly summary of dist, time, TSS and elevation, like the ride summary and notifications of power peaks. Has LOTS of other metrics that for serious peeps is great (like sleep tracking, macro nutrients (what's a packet of chips worth ...). Has an app that usefully mirrors most of what the web application has, so that's great. Seriously considering using this for a year.

Cycling Analytics - US$10/mth or $80 per year, but web only. Similar calendar layout to TP, but does some other things which are neat, but .... No app, so not ideal. Has customisable graphs so that's good if you are a geek, but, I'm not that much of a geek for this stuff. Yet.

Todays Plan - Euro #1 a month. That was enough for me to give it a berth. Also, I'm anti Sky (yeah, I know, but still ....)

Had a quick look at Golden Cheetah, and whilst it's free, it requires manual data transfer on the laptop and seems to be a bit geeky for me, so I think that's a non-contender as well.

Love to hear others experiences as well and see what they use, what you like about it, and what you think is worth paying for.

Cheers

Michael B

PS - The Wahoo auto uploads to the following : RidewithGPS, Strava, Training Peaks, Today's Plan, Komoot, PowerTraxx, Cycling Analytics, Web4Trainer, SportTracks, MapMyFitness, 2PEAK Dynamic Trainings, Dropbox and BestBikeSpilt. :D

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:50 pm

Training Peaks didn't used to have the best app, but by goodness they've improved it massively. It's still a bland grey coloured thing, but it really has useful features and it is fast.

I also like that it is super easy to upload to it, I just plug in the garmin to my computer and drag and drop the rides onto the calendar and it is done. I also like the calendar in terms of being able to schedule things so you can plan the training you do fairly precisely and taper off at the right time that you should be fresh for event you are doing.

It's just easy to use with minimal mucking about. But I also like that I can customise it how I want. And I rather just train however I want rather than following plans from elsewhere.
Last edited by g-boaf on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby queequeg » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:00 pm

I'm on Today's plan. Not sure why you mention the price in Euro, given that Today's Plan is an Australian based system. It's a $145 p/a subscription if you do your own plans.

Reason I went with Today's Plan was on the recommendation of others in my club. The amount of analytics it gives is pretty good, as you would expect when the feature set is driven by the requirements of the Pro Teams that use it (one of which is Sky).

For me, it's good as there is a integration between everything. Ride on Zwift, it goes directly from Zwift to Today's Plan. Create a workout in Today's Plan, you can ride that workout in Zwift with no extra steps needs.

If you are training for an event, Today's Plan does also have pre-built training plans (but you have to pay the higher annual cost to get them). For example, if you are doing 3 Peaks, they have a training plan that you can just drop onto your calendar and it tells you what to do and when.
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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:10 pm

I use WKO4 on my desktop and laptop for my coaching analytics work. I have all data sync'd via Training Peaks.

For myself I have a Garmin that is linked via the Garmin Connect app on my iPhone, which once I tell the Garmin to save a ride file it auto uploads the file to Garmin Connect (free account) which I have set up to auto sync with Training Peaks (free account) which auto syncs with my WKO4. My Strava (free account) also auto syncs the data from either Garmin Connect or TP, can't recall which way it travels.

Clients all have a TP account (they only need a free account) and so as soon as their data hits TP, my WKO4 will auto sync with it as soon as I fire up WKO4 on my desktop.

It's great to get data regularly and quickly, the only downside is the process tends to reduce the instances of clients attaching notes to their ride files, which to me are just as valuable as the data. Typically I tend to get notes from those also using WKO4 for themselves. We have other ways to get that sort of info if needed, it's just much better when it is all in one file and view-able in one place.

I have tried to use Golden Cheetah but it's just not reliable enough for me to run a coaching business, it just crashes too often for my liking and I don't personally like the UI much but that's just a preference thing. Others swear by it.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby tomee » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:17 pm

https://www.xertonline.com/ has just recently updated with their training adapting adviser. It changes your workout based on what you have done so far.

Has iOs and android apps.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:12 pm

tomee wrote:https://www.xertonline.com/ has just recently updated with their training adapting adviser. It changes your workout based on what you have done so far.

Has iOs and android apps.

I've also tried Xert.

For sure give it a go but I didn't find the assessment of fitness parameters to be realistic and it also suggested unrealistic/unachievable/inappropriate work outs for me.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:29 am

Thanks all.

For Today’s Plan, have signed up but the IOS app comes up with a message about Beta testers ??

EDIT: Downloaded correct app and all sorted

Anyway, interesting comments and will see how I go, but the focus seems for me to give Training Peaks a go.

Will have a play with Today’s Plan while it’s stinking hot this weekend (probably while watching the CEGORR on Sunday and even have a peek at the Xert one.

Ta

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby Strawburger » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:23 pm

Wko 4 and TP works for me.

Lots of charting and analysis options in wko and a great app in TP.
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kb
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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby kb » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:28 pm

MichaelB wrote:...
Had a quick look at Golden Cheetah, and whilst it's free, it requires manual data transfer on the laptop and seems to be a bit geeky for me, so I think that's a non-contender as well.
[...]
PS - The Wahoo auto uploads to the following : RidewithGPS, Strava, Training Peaks, Today's Plan, Komoot, PowerTraxx, Cycling Analytics, Web4Trainer, SportTracks, MapMyFitness, 2PEAK Dynamic Trainings, Dropbox and BestBikeSpilt. :D

Well Golden Cheetah will auto sync with Dropbox but possibly still involves too much farting around for easy exploration.
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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby MichaelB » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:58 pm

kb wrote: ..Well Golden Cheetah will auto sync with Dropbox but possibly still involves too much farting around for easy exploration.


Yep, sure sounds like it does.

Had a play with some options over the weekend, and gotta say, I'm leaning towards Training Peaks. Have cancelled the Strava Premium free trial (It's actually $12.99/month of $82/yr).

The reason why Training Peaks is ahead, is I like their layout for the calendar view with the weekly summary of key metrics, presentation of the data for the ride when you explore it, and how you can track the peak power performance history.

I like some of the Today's Plan presentation too, but it just seems a bit more fiddly than Training Peaks. I'm not after any training plans as most of the time I wouldn't stick to it and don't have any specific goals apart from not crashing.

Cycling analytics has some neat features that I like, but just doesn't quite gel with me overall.

After all that, I just wish that Training Peaks had a 'Lite' version where I could get some of the metrics, but don't want the other stuff like training plan integration, sleep graphs, macro nutrients etc - almost an 'Amateur' version. I need a cheaper version as I wasted my money on getting a PM that I'lll never use properly as I couldn't resist knowing more data that I wont actually do anything with .... :roll:

Actually, that's not quite true. I do use the F/F/F graph to be a bit more edumacated about when to ease off and have a lighter ride ...., like tomorrow :D

EDIT : Had a little more of a play with Today's Plan and found some new ways of using it. Different terminology needs a bit of study, so reading that at the moment.
Interesting that Training peaks ends up at a yearly cost about the same as Today's Plan (A$145 vs USD$119/yr - via the web), but are very different per month (A$17 vs USD$20/mth). I like that with the Today's Plan, there is the option, not to make it an auto renew.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby Strawburger » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:15 pm

I buy TP when it's on sale. The yearly subscription kicks in once the last subscription has expired, not when you buy it. Mine currently runs out in April next year ;)
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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:35 am

Strawburger wrote:I buy TP when it's on sale. The yearly subscription kicks in once the last subscription has expired, not when you buy it. Mine currently runs out in April next year ;)


Had a look for codes on the net, but none that I found worked.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:51 am

MichaelB wrote:After all that, I just wish that Training Peaks had a 'Lite' version where I could get some of the metrics, but don't want the other stuff like training plan integration, sleep graphs, macro nutrients etc


In a way, I agree with that. I don't use some of those more specialised metrics either. Sleeping hours is fairly obvious, I don't get enough of those as I spend three hours of my day commuting to and from work, it's not easy to get sleep on the train either as there is usually some group that gets on and yaps away loudly or has music playing loud on the phone-speaker.

So it's a matter of balancing the riding I'd like to do against the other goal of not ending up feeling like walking dead.

I'm hoping to keep at least a consistent 400km per week going.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:14 pm

g-boaf wrote: ...In a way, I agree with that. I don't use some of those more specialised metrics either. ....


I'm hoping to keep at least a consistent 400km per week going.


It takes enough time as it is (which is not much, but ...) to sort out the basics, but to enter the data on all the other stuff, that's pro (or very serious level) to me.

400km/week :shock: I'm aiming for 150km, which will get me my 7,500km for the year. It seems to be a good balance of riding, sanity, gardening and housey stuff time, child sports ferrying and relaxing.

I note that none of the systems that I have looked at have a 'house chores' TSS score. e.g. On Sat (after a 90min solid ride), helped move over a tonne of dirt incl emptying it at the dump in mid 30 degree heat, and then on Sun (forgoing the ride - browny points :) ) emptying and spreading the tonne of marble chips by bucket in mid 30's again as well.

Hmm, should wear the HR to see what the hrTSS is for a laugh ....

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby Ignoto » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:47 pm

I prefer TodaysPlan as IMO its more active in releasing new ways to analyse the data and appears to be constantly evovling.

TrainingPeaks seldomly rolls improvements out and when it does, it's lacking in being a meaningful improvement. I don't think they've added any real functionality say new graphs or ways to visualise the data since the new Web App was rolled out 4 years ago.

Unfortunately my coach uses WKO/TrainingPeaks so I used TrainingPeaks rather than my preferred TodaysPlan.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby Comedian » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:04 pm

I use Cycling Analytics. I find the interface to be simple and easy to use. It's got everything I need and it's Australian to boot.

A little while ago he added functionality so it can upload direct from garmin connect. That was a handy improvement.

Also, if you are a bit secretive with your numbers you can use CA to upload to Strava. CA can strip things like power and heart rate data if you want... :)

CA can also take data from strava if you want to do a trial. Just a cautionary note.. I've found that strava doesn't keep all the data. You loose things like pedal stroke analysis. it's better to upload from Garmin Connect.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:28 pm

Comedian wrote: Also, if you are a bit secretive with your numbers you can use CA to upload to Strava. CA can strip things like power and heart rate data if you want... :)
...


If you want to be secretive, just make rides private ...

Anyway, thanks for the additional feedback and input.

Apparently with Wahoo, you get a free 30 day trial for Todays Plan, so waiting to get that code.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:58 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Comedian wrote: Also, if you are a bit secretive with your numbers you can use CA to upload to Strava. CA can strip things like power and heart rate data if you want... :)
...


If you want to be secretive, just make rides private ...

Anyway, thanks for the additional feedback and input.

Apparently with Wahoo, you get a free 30 day trial for Todays Plan, so waiting to get that code.


My thoughts too. It's not worth it being secretive. My FTP was only around 313w last I tested it (was 60kg back then). None of us are going to be winning grand tours.

Have not retested in a year or more I guess. Don't care either.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby Strawburger » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:17 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Strawburger wrote:I buy TP when it's on sale. The yearly subscription kicks in once the last subscription has expired, not when you buy it. Mine currently runs out in April next year ;)


Had a look for codes on the net, but none that I found worked.


Cyber Monday usually brings good deals. Sometimes one other throughout the year from vague memory. Doesn't last long though!
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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby Comedian » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:36 pm

g-boaf wrote:
MichaelB wrote:
Comedian wrote: Also, if you are a bit secretive with your numbers you can use CA to upload to Strava. CA can strip things like power and heart rate data if you want... :)
...


If you want to be secretive, just make rides private ...

Anyway, thanks for the additional feedback and input.

Apparently with Wahoo, you get a free 30 day trial for Todays Plan, so waiting to get that code.


My thoughts too. It's not worth it being secretive. My FTP was only around 313w last I tested it (was 60kg back then). None of us are going to be winning grand tours.

Have not retested in a year or more I guess. Don't care either.

wow .. 5.2 w/kg is pretty awesome. That puts you top of A grade.. bottom domestic pro! :mrgreen:

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby g-boaf » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:09 pm

Yeah but it depends on whose testing methods you refer to. Some do 20 minute tests, other 1 hour. Mine is over 20 min. It's just a number, and it was done so long ago I've got no idea if it is still valid or not. I just ride, and I also don't care about racing either - totally disinterested in it.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby Comedian » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:20 pm

g-boaf wrote:Yeah but it depends on whose testing methods you refer to. Some do 20 minute tests, other 1 hour. Mine is over 20 min. It's just a number, and it was done so long ago I've got no idea if it is still valid or not. I just ride, and I also don't care about racing either - totally disinterested in it.

I'm confused.. in that case why are you in a thread about training analysis software? :mrgreen:

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby g-boaf » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:24 pm

Comedian wrote:
g-boaf wrote:Yeah but it depends on whose testing methods you refer to. Some do 20 minute tests, other 1 hour. Mine is over 20 min. It's just a number, and it was done so long ago I've got no idea if it is still valid or not. I just ride, and I also don't care about racing either - totally disinterested in it.

I'm confused.. in that case why are you in a thread about training analysis software? :mrgreen:


And what business is that of yours anyway?

I have experience with some of the software.

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby MichaelB » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:17 pm

Back on topic.

I've cancelled Strava Premium, and after having a bit more of a play with Today's Plan, feel a bit better with what it does & can do.

I still have another 15 days of the premium trial on CA, so having a bit more of a play with that, but find that not having an iOS app is a turn-off, but at A$10/mth or A$80/yr offsets that.

I'll keep playing with the CA access that I have at the moment, but probably leaning towards Training Peaks (if I do something) as I think that the iOS app is the best (from what I have seen with Strava, Training Peaks and Today's Plan), as well as the web page being pretty good as well. If the subscription is done via the web, it's cheaper than through the app (maybe due to conversion rate skimming and taking into account apple fees ?)

I find that Today's Plan is trying too hard to integrate the training plans (which I'm not interested in) and it tends to clog it up.

Keep the useful info coming :mrgreen:

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Re: What Power analysis/training software do people use ?

Postby g-boaf » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:03 pm

If you do want to put in training plans, TP can do it no trouble and you can create a library of workouts if you need them.

In any case, you can just use approximate TSS values on your planned workouts to fairly well structure your riding in the run up to any events you have.

These workouts in the library can be exported to various formats used in other apps.

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