TSS / week

ausrider
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TSS / week

Postby ausrider » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:05 pm

I know a lot of us commuting to/from work and our weekend ride.

What's your typical TSS / week? Mine is around 700-900 TSS, sometimes up to 1300-1500 TSS if I've hard/long ride thrown in on the weekend. That's only around 300km/week.

g-boaf
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Re: TSS / week

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:58 pm

Only around 750-800. I do only 3 rides per week now, not doing anything else in the way of structured training and no commute rides now either.

I'm hoping when work moves closer to home I can start doing some more rides/hours. That is usually how I get really quick and no amount of special intervals seems to beat it for me at least.

I'm wondering with your huge TSS over 300km if you might think about doing a power test if you've not done one in a while.

am50em
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Re: TSS / week

Postby am50em » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:33 pm

From reading, 1000 tss per week would be around the maximum achievable. As g-boaf says, time for a power test.

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Re: TSS / week

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:18 pm

am50em wrote:From reading, 1000 tss per week would be around the maximum achievable. As g-boaf says, time for a power test.


You might expect more if you've done some gigantic week of riding. I've done it with a week of over 1000km, or if you do a Haute Route or something else similarly crazy like that.

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queequeg
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Re: TSS / week

Postby queequeg » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:23 am

I typical full week of commuting plus a single weekend ride would put me pretty close to 1000TSS.
If that weekend ride was a "big one", my weekly TSS would easily hit 1500. The single largest ride I did had a TSS of 739, and that was off the back of a full week of commuting
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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: TSS / week

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 am

TSS requires a well established threshold power value, and it is also sensitive to calculation methods used by different software - an artefact known as RATSS - recovery augmented TSS.

So depending on the software you are using and how it does the calcs, you may have inflated numbers.

1000TSS at a reasonably solid average IF of 0.75 = 17.8 hours or riding.

At say a higher average IF of 0.8 it's 15.6 hours of riding.

If you are doing 15-20 hours/week with an IF>0.8, then there's a reasonable chance there is something wrong with your inputs.

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MichaelB
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Re: TSS / week

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:31 am

Mine so far this year (according to Training Peaks) has been 750-900 with about 260km/week, 3,000m of climbing and a mixture of commute and good rides.

It’s about 10 hours per week.

That’s enough for me :P

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Re: TSS / week

Postby queequeg » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:27 pm

MichaelB wrote:Mine so far this year (according to Training Peaks) has been 750-900 with about 260km/week, 3,000m of climbing and a mixture of commute and good rides.

It’s about 10 hours per week.

That’s enough for me :P


As Alex says above, without a proper threshold, the numbers can be way off. When I first got my power meter and did the ftp test, the numbers in today's Plan just took off. With only my heart rate to go on, it was estimating too low

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trailgumby
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Re: TSS / week

Postby trailgumby » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:40 pm

When I had the PM on my XC bike, it would read low compared to my hrTSS.

Reason was on the MTB you're using your upper body much more and pumping the bike over the downslope of any little irregularities in the terrain for so-called "free speed" with your cranks level - which the PM doesn't capture.

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nickobec
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Re: TSS / week

Postby nickobec » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:18 am

ausrider wrote:What's your typical TSS / week? Mine is around 700-900 TSS, sometimes up to 1300-1500 TSS if I've hard/long ride thrown in on the weekend. That's only around 300km/week.


As the others had said you need to check your power numbers, because as Alex said TSS equals Intensity Factor (IF) x Time. So if you are hitting a 900 TSS on 10 hours riding, means you are riding at an average of 90% of you threshold for every ride.

My typical week of 300km equals a TSS of between 700 and 750.

I have had a TSS of over 1500 for a week, but that was over 600km and over 20 hours in the saddle, including two races and some hills.

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Re: TSS / week

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:26 am

nickobec wrote:
ausrider wrote:What's your typical TSS / week? Mine is around 700-900 TSS, sometimes up to 1300-1500 TSS if I've hard/long ride thrown in on the weekend. That's only around 300km/week.


As the others had said you need to check your power numbers, because as Alex said TSS equals Intensity Factor (IF) x Time.

IF squared, not IF.

TSS = IF^2 x duration (hours) x 100

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MichaelB
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Re: TSS / week

Postby MichaelB » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:12 am

I haven’t done a ‘proper FTP’ but am using that data gained so far (and checking the est. FTP from Strava as a yardstick atm) so it’s a starting point.

When the day is right again, I’ll do another run up Greenhill Rd again as a comparison, did the last one on 1st Jan and it’s going to be 42 this weekend and not in the mood either !!

Just feeling my way around.

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nickobec
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Re: TSS / week

Postby nickobec » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:50 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:IF squared, not IF.


My brain fade, it was late at night for me.

No wonder I could not get my numbers to add up.

Back to the OP, 10 hours a week (assuming 30kph average) for 700 to 900 TSS, means an IF between .84 and .95 (right Alex?)

Which should be an interesting commute to be able to get that IF.

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Re: TSS / week

Postby g-boaf » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:02 pm

nickobec wrote:Which should be an interesting commute to be able to get that IF.


And aside from that, if the commute rides were easier, which they generally are because (at least around here) you can't go belting along at full flat out intensity because of the risks from traffic doing unpredictable things. So that would mean the non-commute rides would have to be absolutely all out. And then it's not just physically being able to do that, but mentally. Sometimes you get to the point where you just feel like rolling along.

I suspect we've scared Ausrider away with the talk of power tests and the like.

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MichaelB
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Re: TSS / week

Postby MichaelB » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:31 pm

Dunno about anyone else, but I have the luxury of making my commutes what I like. Shortest route to work is 3.5km, but depending on the coffee routine in the morning and my current attitude means that I can make it easy or hard.

I can do a 30km loop with 350m of climbing at an IF of .85 or an easy Z2 cruise via Coast of about 35km and IF closer to .7.

Who says Adelaide’s bad

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Re: TSS / week

Postby g-boaf » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:33 pm

MichaelB wrote:Dunno about anyone else, but I have the luxury of making my commutes what I like. Shortest route to work is 3.5km, but depending on the coffee routine in the morning and my current attitude means that I can make it easy or hard.

I can do a 30km loop with 350m of climbing at an IF of .85 or an easy Z2 cruise via Coast of about 35km and IF closer to .7.

Who says Adelaide’s bad


I wish. I stopped commuting to my current work location because the route I used to take became too frantic. That was 29km along some local roads and then Parramatta Road into the Sydney CBD (to Circular Quay). Unless you left super early it was a rat race, but it got worse when the tolls went on the M4 motorway again and everyone crowded onto Parramatta Road to avoid paying the tolls. :roll:

But, when we move shortly I should be able to do something like that. About 10km to work, or a nice 50km loop if I want to go a different way. I guess that route would have about 500m elevation. Or I can just get the bus if don't feel like riding.

We've been promised secure facilities, but we'll see about that. None of my bikes are exactly the sort of things I want to leave out of sight.

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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: TSS / week

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:29 pm

nickobec wrote:Back to the OP, 10 hours a week (assuming 30kph average) for 700 to 900 TSS, means an IF between .84 and .95 (right Alex?)

Correct.

Keep in mind that commutes can have a lot of stops and different software handles stops differently in how it calculates TSS (and hence IF).

Also commutes / traffic lights can sometimes result in a lot of mini sprints, and if you push hard for 20-40 seconds quite frequently, that will cause an increase in Normalized Power, which increases IF.

It's also how recovery rides often aren't.

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Re: TSS / week

Postby g-boaf » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:49 pm

I had 910TSS this week with 507km, a few of the rides had a higher IF, but the others weren't so fast.

Should be noted that I'm not using a power meter any more, just going off hrTSS.

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Re: TSS / week

Postby trailgumby » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:38 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:It's also how recovery rides often aren't.

Ha! Yes. Especially when you're in traffic.

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queequeg
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Re: TSS / week

Postby queequeg » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:43 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
nickobec wrote:Back to the OP, 10 hours a week (assuming 30kph average) for 700 to 900 TSS, means an IF between .84 and .95 (right Alex?)

Correct.

Keep in mind that commutes can have a lot of stops and different software handles stops differently in how it calculates TSS (and hence IF).

Also commutes / traffic lights can sometimes result in a lot of mini sprints, and if you push hard for 20-40 seconds quite frequently, that will cause an increase in Normalized Power, which increases IF.

It's also how recovery rides often aren't.


Pretty much describes my commutes. My coach laughed at me when he gave me a recovery ride and I was told not to exceed a TSS of 75 for 2 hours of effort (my commute is 1 hour each way). First day out, I was in my lowest gear spinning with as little effort as I could, and I was still exceeding the power numbers he gave me. I think it was simple maths. You can't push an 80kg rider on a 13kg bike up a 12% hill and not exceed 130 watts. So, I ended up doing all my recovery rides on Zwift on the Kickr in ERG mode because it was the only way I could spin. All those hills and stop/starts on my commute were seeing my power levels continually go up to 500watts for a few seconds as I moved off.
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MichaelB
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Re: TSS / week

Postby MichaelB » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:45 pm

g-boaf wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Dunno about anyone else, but I have the luxury of making my commutes what I like. Shortest route to work is 3.5km, but depending on the coffee routine in the morning and my current attitude means that I can make it easy or hard.

I can do a 30km loop with 350m of climbing at an IF of .85 or an easy Z2 cruise via Coast of about 35km and IF closer to .7.

Who says Adelaide’s bad


I wish. ....quote]

This mornings 'commute' was a nice jaunt up & over Mt Lofty with the following details (from Training Peaks) ;

Duration : 1:35:16
Distance : 38.1km
Avg Speed : km/hr
Elev Gain : 731m
TSS : 116
IF : 0.86
NP : 250 W
HR : Min - 89, Avg - 145, Max - 183bpm
Power : Avg - 208, Max 592W (1 new Power Peak performance, but as I'm not on the trial anymore, dunno what it was for)

After stinking hot weekend, the weather wasn't too bad, it was 22 degrees (reached a max of 44.1 during Sunday) but humid as, so sweated buckets.
And to top it off, had to stop on the way down Greenhill Rd to make sure a frazzled Koala made it safely to the other side. Then I remembered I had to go to work today ....

ausrider
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Re: TSS / week

Postby ausrider » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:14 pm

Thanks all for the input and trying to digest it.
Yes it has been awhile since my last FTP test. If the FTP number is incorrect it can throw the TSS off as well.

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nickobec
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Re: TSS / week

Postby nickobec » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:44 am

ausrider wrote: If the FTP number is incorrect it can throw the TSS off as well.


Yes, I will try to do the number crunching, though Alex may want to check my numbers, especially seeing it is late at night (for me).
IF = NP/FTP
TSS = IF*IF*(ride time in hours)*100

Lets say the rider does 1 hour ride with a normalised power of 250 watts
riders ftp - TSS
235 - 116
250 - 100
265 - 88
300 - 70
350 - 50

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Re: TSS / week

Postby thatmdee » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:44 am

FTP: 209w (last tested 5 weeks ago)
Weight: 68kg

I'm currently on Sweet Spot Base - Mid Volume 1 (end of week 5), so around 350 - 400 TSS per week. Currently averaging around 8 hours a week. For the off days, I add in a recovery ride which pushes the weekly TSS up only slightly.

I'm tempted to jump to High Volume for the second block of Sweet Spot Base.. maybe.. Or I'll wait until Build phase (and I'm not sure which one I should do.. maybe just general. I've only been cycling a little over 12 months).

EDIT: Currently in general build phase now (retested with FTP at 229w), and weekly TSS is up around 450 - 550 per week. Looking back at all my previous rides that were imported into TrainerRoad (synced to Strava from Zwift), it looks like around Sep-Nov 2017 I was averaging around 800-900 TSS per week. I think that definitely took its toll on me though, and the fatigue gradually crept in..

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