Diet Thread

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:38 pm

The lady has brought a pasta maker. Being Asian she is calling it a noodle maker. I'm wondering what the impact to my diet will be, but of course this change will only occur until the novelty of making noodles & pasta wears off.

Model is the same or similar to this one
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:53 pm

mikesbytes wrote:The lady has brought a pasta maker. Being Asian she is calling it a noodle maker.


LOL. if she is Asian it might take a few years for the novelty to wear off.
I've been making more Asian inspired soup meals in this colder weather, and occasionally adding rice noodles.

Nevertheless, noodles are refined grains so not as healthy as whole rice or wheat.

The soups are quick (<10 minutes) and easy to make though : boil water, add to wok, throw in noodles, a few minutes later tofu, then a bucket of chopped vege.... along with ginger, chili, sweet basil, a little iodized salt or vege stock.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:06 pm

Get on the konjak bandwagon - those noodles are effectively nothing but fibre so they have virtually no calories, they just soak up the flavour of whatever you cook them in and they fill you up.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:05 am

Australians are fat and getting fatter, says national report card - The Canberra Times

Obesity Policy Coalition executive manager Jane Martin wrote:“We need to be seeing sugar coming out of the food supply and we need to be sending price signals to people,”

What about all the other addictive foods. Everyone concentrates on sugar, but there is also fat, processed grains, dairy, salt and other addictive foods/products. Reducing/removing them all in processed foods still wouldn't solve the problem. Are they going to remove all the restaurants and take-aways? Remove all of those processed foods from the supermarkets? Processed and addictive foods are only two factors in many. The main one being self control. Self control is mainly going happen as a result of a total lifestyle change. Since society in general appears to be leading itself off a cliff when it comes to diet and lifestyle choices, isolating oneself from societies influences is one step in the right direction. Easier said than done though.

Head of the weight control clinic at Austin Health in Melbourne, Professor Joe Proietto, said more needed to be done to support medical treatments for obesity as many people have a genetic disposition that meant when they lost weight they experienced hormonal changes that made them hungry, making it difficult to maintain weight.

“This is why public health measures cannot and will not work unless you have draconian measures like forbidding cars and making food scare, which we simply can’t do in a free society,” he said.

Yes you can have your body fight a loss of weight if you lose it too fast and are still eating a high processed and high density western diet. There are also a host of other factors of total lifestyle change to be long term successful. I may be naive, but I don't think medical treatments are an effective answer for the long term.

I agree that direct public health measures won't work. IMO the best option the government would have is to try make obesity less socially acceptable like they have with drink driving and smoking. IIRC Japan tries to make obesity less socially acceptable by requiring regular medicals which include assessment of weight. But in our PC society, there would be howls of protest over "fat shaming" and non-inclusive policies. I remember my reaction when I was 82 kg to the naturopath (who I don't see anymore) who said that my ideal weight should be 73 kg. I was instantly upset/offended believing I couldn't get there. So I can see the potential for backlash when most of society are now overweight.

In the end, the answer to the problem is going need to come from the individual. So for the majority, that's not going to happen.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:00 pm

CK, I guess I could accidentally buy wholemeal flour. Agree that what it is with can make a big difference.

March83, thanks for pointing out konjak, I'm interested to try it, will keep my eyes peeled for it.

Nobody, I agree that sugar shouldn't be singled out, I've suggested in the past a calorie tax and even that isn't a perfect solution. We have to start somewhere

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:41 pm

march83 wrote:Get on the konjak bandwagon - those noodles are effectively nothing but fibre so they have virtually no calories, they just soak up the flavour of whatever you cook them in and they fill you up.


Hey thanks for the heads up March.
I've never heard of this before, though a quick google shows it's been 'a thing' for at least 5 years.
I will definitely investigate, and talk to my dietitian buddies about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjac
https://www.livestrong.com/article/1492 ... njac-root/

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:33 pm

No worries. From the chinese supermarkets they can be quite cheap. In the supermarkets with up-market branding, not so much ;)
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:25 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Nobody, I agree that sugar shouldn't be singled out, I've suggested in the past a calorie tax and even that isn't a perfect solution. We have to start somewhere

The somewhere that would have a better chance of working would not be PC:
- Taxing/charging people on the probable load they are going to place on the healthcare system by being overweight/obese/morbidly obese.
- Encourage airlines to charge per kg of body weight.
- Give children a real health focused dietary education in schools. Free of the food industries' influence.
- Your high calorie density food tax is a good idea, since it covers most bad food. But to be effective it would have to be heavy and get heavier. Like they do with the cigarettes.
- Heavily tax restaurants and take-aways.
- Run ad campaigns on the dangers of certain foods/food groups and/or being obese. After all, statistically what one eats is much more dangerous in regard to mortality than anything else the average person normally does.

But it won't even remotely happen because of industry control and the voter backlash. So that's why I said change is going to have to come from the individual.

mikesbytes wrote:

Yes. Other than the genetic changes (shown in another part of the movie) we appear to be well on our way.
Last edited by Nobody on Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:29 pm

Nobody wrote:
Obesity Policy Coalition executive manager Jane Martin wrote:
Head of the weight control clinic at Austin Health in Melbourne, Professor Joe Proietto, said more needed to be done to support medical treatments for obesity as many people have a genetic disposition that meant when they lost weight they experienced hormonal changes that made them hungry, making it difficult to maintain weight.


That's such a load of codswallop Joe.
"many people have a genetic disposition" .....

yeah like what % do you think it is today Joe when the obesity rate is 35+%?
and what % was it in 1980 when the obesity rate was 13%.
and what about 1960 when the rate was even lower?
and Joe, why do Japanese and other traditionally non obese migrants only get fat when they move to the USA?
Joe, me thinks you have $s in your eyes.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:55 pm

I came across this website today, and searched for 'diet'.
https://retractionwatch.com/?s=diet
Some interesting stuff.
Good to see methodologies being examined more closely.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:26 pm

march83 wrote:No worries. From the chinese supermarkets they can be quite cheap. In the supermarkets with up-market branding, not so much ;)


dropped in at Woolies on the way home and bought a couple of bags. chowing down on them in a soup now, and they do the trick.
about 10 Cals/100g. will read up on the processing, what's taken out and left in, reconstitution, additives.
certainly a product for the times.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:01 pm

Nice. They dry fry ok too. Once you get them sort of dry in a hot pan they'll drink up anything you add. A bit of soy and garlic, a dusting of nutritional yeast, etc. Very tasty.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:14 pm

CKinnard wrote:
march83 wrote:Get on the konjak bandwagon - those noodles are effectively nothing but fibre so they have virtually no calories, they just soak up the flavour of whatever you cook them in and they fill you up.


Hey thanks for the heads up March.
I've never heard of this before, though a quick google shows it's been 'a thing' for at least 5 years.
I will definitely investigate, and talk to my dietitian buddies about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjac
https://www.livestrong.com/article/1492 ... njac-root/


CK I'm interested in where you take this

march83 wrote:No worries. From the chinese supermarkets they can be quite cheap. In the supermarkets with up-market branding, not so much ;)


My Wife's chinese and she hasn't heard of this, though she is from a different region. Neither of us has seen it in the chinese supermarket. I'll find out the Chinese name, I know who to ask
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:21 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
CKinnard wrote:
march83 wrote:Get on the konjak bandwagon - those noodles are effectively nothing but fibre so they have virtually no calories, they just soak up the flavour of whatever you cook them in and they fill you up.


Hey thanks for the heads up March.
I've never heard of this before, though a quick google shows it's been 'a thing' for at least 5 years.
I will definitely investigate, and talk to my dietitian buddies about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjac
https://www.livestrong.com/article/1492 ... njac-root/


CK I'm interested in where you take this

march83 wrote:No worries. From the chinese supermarkets they can be quite cheap. In the supermarkets with up-market branding, not so much ;)


My Wife's chinese and she hasn't heard of this, though she is from a different region. Neither of us has seen it in the chinese supermarket. I'll find out the Chinese name, I know who to ask


Edit: the chinese is in the Wiki page: 蒟蒻 There's also Korean and Japanese so armed with that page is should be sourcable
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:16 am

I had an interesting encounter yesterday with the Mum of a 11yo who broke her tibia&fibula (ankle) 10 months ago. The rehab has been slow-ish. Mum is a year 2 teacher and by all encounters a grounded and educated women of character. The family eat exceptionally well, being SDAs, and very plant based though eat a little fish.

Yesterday was supposed to be the last treatment for the daughter, as she has been building strength and reducing aches at a higher rate in the previous 3-4 mths.

I asked how the exercise program had been going, and Mum stiffened up and began to explain how it hadn't been going, and she felt it was way too difficult for an 11yr old girl.

I at first thought to respond rationally, but sensed the Mum was not open to hearing what I had to say, and any point I made that gets the better of her logically, might easily be perceived as intimidation. So I let it go.

Now I don't know whether Mum's perception was something to do with male and female traditional roles and behavior as taught by her religion, or something else.

The exercise plan would take no more than 10-15 minutes to perform, and involved 1 minute periods of jogging between resistance exercises (20 alternating step ups/downs, 5/side side lunges, 10 meters of wheel barrow walking (requires someone else to hold legs), 10/side hops, 10 star jumps.

My first thought was to ask Mum what level of physical strength she considered appropriate for young girls, and to ask how that compared to the manual work done by her forebears living on farms.

It was an interesting encounter that got me thinking. I wondered whether my sense of normality is too restricted. If a parent perceives that level of activity or strength development in girls excessive, I think that is very much a distorted view that is not reconciled with our historical past.

I honestly think parents who steer their children to a more passive lifestyle do not comprehend the health risks they are setting them up for
- 90% of a female's peak bone density is set by 18yo, and 100% before 30yo.
- fractures, such as this girl's are more likely for the less active. (The reason for the wheelbarrows is they are excellent for building upper limb strength and bone density, and core strength, and this girl had compromised posture and had hurt her wrist when she broke her tibia/fibula).

I don't think the mother appreciated either that her daughter's tibia and fibula would continue to remodel in response to challenges for the next 10 years, and that the fracture site would benefit from additional challenge.

Sometimes, clinicians walk a fine line between explaining scientific reality and being perceived as part of the overbearing patriarchy.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby RobertL » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:20 am

Nobody wrote:- Encourage airlines to charge per kg of body weight.


As someone who is 190cm tall, I am not in favour of this!

I can comfortably fit into any airline seat for width - so I cause no problems for the airline or for other passengers.

I am already penalised by the lack of leg room for someone my height. I do not want to be further punished because I am heavier than a short, fat, unhealthy person.

Harrumph!!
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:59 pm

RobertL wrote:
Nobody wrote:- Encourage airlines to charge per kg of body weight.


As someone who is 190cm tall, I am not in favour of this!

I can comfortably fit into any airline seat for width - so I cause no problems for the airline or for other passengers.

I am already penalised by the lack of leg room for someone my height. I do not want to be further punished because I am heavier than a short, fat, unhealthy person.

Harrumph!!

As I said in the post, we all know it won't happen. Just as much of a rant as anything. Which most regular reader should be used to by now.
Nobody wrote:But it won't even remotely happen because of industry control and the voter backlash. So that's why I said change is going to have to come from the individual.

That's why others didn't reply. But you have proved my point as to why it won't happen. Voter backlash. So thanks. :)

Having said that, I'm sure that even if you had to pay more, you are still compensated by the generalisations that you'll be (as a male) more attractive to women, cognitively smarter (yes proven), paid more and taken more seriously by others. Being short has some advantages. But in the big scheme of life, they don't rate against your advantages. So excuse me - as a short person - if I have trouble feeling sorry for you. :P

Getting more serious for a moment. If you are costing the company more fuel, what can't they charge you for it? They charge for more luggage by weight, don't they? I don't have a problem with a 40 kg person paying less than me. At the moment the light people subsidise the heavy, since the price is averaged. I believe fuel is a large component of a flight's cost.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:25 pm

CKinnard wrote:It was an interesting encounter that got me thinking. I wondered whether my sense of normality is too restricted. If a parent perceives that level of activity or strength development in girls excessive, I think that is very much a distorted view that is not reconciled with our historical past.

...Sometimes, clinicians walk a fine line between explaining scientific reality and being perceived as part of the overbearing patriarchy.

I'll start by saying that I think you should keep walking a fine line for the benefit of those who will listen. Since you rarely know who will eventually take it on board in part or whole. However I think your sense of normality is getting out of step with the normality of general society with each passing day. Their sense of a normal life is getting to be lots of sitting and lots of screen time in various forms. You appear to associate with a lot of health and exercise conscious people. Hardly the norm these days.
Last edited by Nobody on Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:32 pm

Some thinsplaining humour.

On reflection I'm likely guilty of tending to thinsplain, with the underlying message of, "It's easy to get thin if you follow the right eating plan. Why can't you do it?!" :oops: Something I'll have to watch in the future.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:50 pm

CK, confirming you are saying that the Mother doesn't want the Daughter to do the exercises?

Nobody, appologies for not responding to your rant on the application of health related tax's.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:10 pm

mikesbytes wrote:CK, confirming you are saying that the Mother doesn't want the Daughter to do the exercises?


Mike, yes the mother believes the exercises were too hard for her 11yo daughter, even though the daughter did them with me in the clinic.
I have to presume there's more to the story than meets the eye.

I'm generally good at reading people's character and head space, but this Mum surprised me.

Nobody, you are absolutely right, that I should continue to give the best science has to offer, and not let those who aren't ready to hear it dilute the message for those who are ready.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby RobertL » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:52 pm

Nobody wrote:
RobertL wrote:
Nobody wrote:- Encourage airlines to charge per kg of body weight.


As someone who is 190cm tall, I am not in favour of this!

I can comfortably fit into any airline seat for width - so I cause no problems for the airline or for other passengers.

I am already penalised by the lack of leg room for someone my height. I do not want to be further punished because I am heavier than a short, fat, unhealthy person.

Harrumph!!

As I said in the post, we all know it won't happen. Just as much of a rant as anything. Which most regular reader should be used to by now.
Nobody wrote:But it won't even remotely happen because of industry control and the voter backlash. So that's why I said change is going to have to come from the individual.

That's why others didn't reply. But you have proved my point as to why it won't happen. Voter backlash. So thanks. :)

Having said that, I'm sure that even if you had to pay more, you are still compensated by the generalisations that you'll be (as a male) more attractive to women, cognitively smarter (yes proven), paid more and taken more seriously by others. Being short has some advantages. But in the big scheme of life, they don't rate against your advantages. So excuse me - as a short person - if I have trouble feeling sorry for you. :P

Getting more serious for a moment. If you are costing the company more fuel, what can't they charge you for it? They charge for more luggage by weight, don't they? I don't have a problem with a 40 kg person paying less than me. At the moment the light people subsidise the heavy, since the price is averaged. I believe fuel is a large component of a flight's cost.


Yes, I know that you're not completely serious. But if they do start weighing us, then they need to weigh us with our luggage. I travel lighter than a lot of people!
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:02 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Nobody, appologies...

Thanks, but not necessary. I didn't really expect a response. :)

Nobody wrote:Some thinsplaining humour...

It just occurred to me that my wife buys cucumber fairly regularly, but it often goes off in the fridge. So maybe healthy veg is aspirational for some people. They buy with good intentions, but in practice it goes rotten and is thrown out, or composted.

Although my diet style is considered relatively expensive with half fruit and mostly fresh veg (about $18/day or $126/week) I find I waste almost no edible part. The reason being I eat the same thing daily and shop every day, to second day. The non-edible bits go into the garden.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:33 am

Nobody wrote:It just occurred to me that my wife buys cucumber fairly regularly, but it often goes off in the fridge. So maybe healthy veg is aspirational for some people. They buy with good intentions, but in practice it goes rotten and is thrown out, or composted.

Although my diet style is considered relatively expensive with half fruit and mostly fresh veg (about $18/day or $126/week) I find I waste almost no edible part. The reason being I eat the same thing daily and shop every day, to second day. The non-edible bits go into the garden.


I have the view is that your better off to buy too many vegetables and have some go off than to not buy enough. If the vegetable is in your house then there's at least the opportunity for it to be eaten. Having said that I throw out hardly any vegetables as I tend a use a what needs to be eaten first approach.

Guess your situation may be different, I've heard that vegan's tend to have a much lower food bill than non vegan's
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:30 pm

Not wanting to put words in his mouth, but I think nobody eats a fairly rigid, repeatable diet. Maybe he doesn't get the opportunity to chase the specials?

Speaking of, I stocked up on 99c sweet potatoes this morning :)
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