Diet Thread

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RhapsodyX
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby RhapsodyX » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:42 am

Except "low carb" is a meaningless definition. And, as far as I could see, all of the studies in the meta-analysis assumed that extrapolating from the lowest quartile/quintile would make no difference to the associations. Yet, the fringe reporting (loved by the Internet and especially some vegan sites) is that "ketogenic diets are bad for you" when NONE of the research supported this position.

Out of the underlying research from that study that I read, This One was (IMO) the gem. It needs to be read properly as the picture is complex, but the take-home that people should stop and think about is :
Therefore, a realistic increase in the LC/HP score by five units (corresponding to, e.g., an increase of protein intake by about 15 g/day and a decrease of carbohydrate intake by about 50 g/day) was associated with a 22% increase in overall mortality (CI, 9–36%).

"The vibe" is that increasing protein and fat from animal sources (ie. steak) at the same time as reducing intake of fruit/vegetables is detrimental to your health (Duh!). The absolute protein numbers, in an Australian context, were really low - the mean was only 76g/day!

PS - my "fat mate" has gone "low carb" because the cycling pod casts are promoting it. Which (as far as I can tell) means he's given up muffins etc. at the coffee stop and is eating less fried chips on take-away nights. He has lost 4kg (~4.5%), but I think that's more about an improved diet quality than "less carbs". But he's happy to tell me he's gone low carb.

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:45 am

Nobody wrote:If she was average height and only BMI 30, then she would have been 116 kg with the added 35 kg. Or a morbidly obese BMI of 43. So still being obese after losing more than half a (female) person. People claim and usually get some notoriety by telling people how much weight they have lost.


I would have put her height at 5'5" (165cm) and weight around 90kg. -> BMI 33.
and top weight of 125kg.
I just did a google search for similar stats and the pics here confirm my impression.
https://myprogresspics.com/2332/female- ... ches-165cm

Regarding rural diet culture, I think an important observation is the very significant reduction in manual labor on farms specifically, and rural towns generally, over the last 60 years.
Today's farmers could not get fat if they had to sustain the manual labor work rate of their grandfathers.

And they wouldn't get fat if they ate what their forefathers ate.

I've done my fair share of physio in the bush, and know a fair portion of boomer and younger farmers delude themselves on how "hard" they work, compared to their forefathers. There is much manual farm work you just cannot sustain month after month when overweight/obese.
i.e.
spot the fat shearer

Image

The worst obesity I encountered professionally was guys working nearby mines and the long term under-employed.
I hardly saw full time farmers. Those I met socially were overweight but not to the general extent of the miners.

It's easy to blame the sedentary nature of truck driving (a lot of miner work) for obesity, but there were enough examples of drivers who were very healthy. I recall a 40something female driver, who was the epitome of health...She confirmed her diet was all salads and vege, and she did a little gym work at the camp site most days. She said the obese drivers reflected what they ate on site, which was bacon and eggs for brekky, and hot chips with each main meal. And the only vege might be potato pumpkin and tablespoon of peas for dinner.

Nevertheless, I never want to come across as a diet Nazi.
I appreciate there's a lot of other inputs into the general health of rural communities - isolation, economic hardship, long term insecurity....but then humans have a long history of solving problems to survive, and I think current generations might reflect on that.

Incidentally, I've dropped my total Cals comfortably over the last few weeks to a 500-1000 Cal deficit.
I'm getting 80-120 grams of carb a day, which is low carb by several authorities' definitions!!! but it is all legumes, sweet potato, buckwheat, salad vege, 1-2 pieces of fruit.

https://www.sportsdietitians.com.au/fac ... ate-diets/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-carbohydrate_diet

Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:48 pm

CKinnard wrote:I've done my fair share of physio in the bush, and know a fair portion of boomer and younger farmers delude themselves on how "hard" they work, compared to their forefathers. There is much manual farm work you just cannot sustain month after month when overweight/obese.
i.e.
spot the fat shearer...

My father was obese in about 1980 when we arrived on the farm. The work got him down to just into the normal weight range at a guess. Standard AU diet. Meat daily. High Cal density foods. Nowhere near low fat.

As for the shearers. That is the extreme end of rural work. Those are all dressed alike, so probably in some kind of show. They all look normal weight except maybe the guy in the middle. He might be in the overweight range. For the sheer amount of physical work they do in a day, most don't have a lot of definition. So I'd guess they wouldn't be eating well.

CKinnard wrote:It's easy to blame the sedentary nature of truck driving (a lot of miner work) for obesity, but there were enough examples of drivers who were very healthy. I recall a 40something female driver, who was the epitome of health...She confirmed her diet was all salads and vege, and she did a little gym work at the camp site most days. She said the obese drivers reflected what they ate on site, which was bacon and eggs for brekky, and hot chips with each main meal. And the only vege might be potato pumpkin and tablespoon of peas for dinner.

Thanks for posting this. A good anecdote to show we aren't type cast and can break free from it with a little effort.
You would think the management would be onto limiting what they supply in food type since that type of food would be affecting their mental clarity on the job. If I was their management I'd be looking into it to some degree.

CKinnard wrote:Nevertheless, I never want to come across as a diet Nazi.

Too late for that. For both of us. :wink:
Most on these forums most likely see us (especially me) that way though. But that's the price of progress I suppose.

CKinnard wrote:Incidentally, I've dropped my total Cals comfortably over the last few weeks to a 500-1000 Cal deficit.
I'm getting 80-120 grams of carb a day, which is low carb by several authorities' definitions!!! but it is all legumes, sweet potato, buckwheat, salad vege, 1-2 pieces of fruit.

Should be an interesting experiment then. :)
Our approach to weight control is where we differ somewhat. Yours being Cal specific, mine being Cal density specific.

I'll put my approach below as it may help some:
I tend to look at how individual foods have affected me in the past, as well as their processed Cal density and adjust. For me, legumes, (sweet) potatoes, grains and nuts I would either limit or avoid if I wanted to lose weight. Excessive nuts should be obvious for this style of eating (although others may not be effected). The other foods I mentioned are processed/cooked to some degree and so have a higher Cal density and/or absorption rate than they advertise IMO. Cooked veg is fine for the low Cal density fibrous veg like broccoli, cauli, carrot, cabbage, beans, etc. But I need to be cautious with the higher Cal density ones. Most lower Cal density fruit will lose weight for me when eaten to satiation. I've got my doubts about bananas from previous experience, which are on the high side. I try to keep my total diet around a Cal density of 60 Cal/100g. Fat is currently about 0.4g/kg of body weight (BW), protein about 1.2g/kgBW and carbs I don't regulate, but about 7-10g/kgBW. Macro percentages are about C81:F8:P11, not that they mean much.
Having said that, what works for me may not work for others. I think you (CK) mentioned a third of people can do this. So it may be worth it for individuals to try it and find out if they are one of that third.

march83
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:22 pm

The longer you cook sweet potatoes the higher their energy density becomes and higher their GI becomes. The difference between boiled for 10 minutes and oven roasted for 40 minutes is almost double.


Fwiw, Nobody, I use a similar style of avoiding certain foods when trying to lose weight. I don't go about it quite the same way though. Instead of having a list of things I avoid, I just have a very short list of things that I will eat and just stick to them. Just dramatically reducing variety. Any fears of sub-optional nutrition profiles are allayed by running the quantities through cronometer but it's only for a short period to get a few kilos off before race season starts in a few weeks. I'm pretty much living on the same 2 meals every day plus an avocado for breakfast and it's suprisingly effective.
Image

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:18 pm

march83 wrote:The longer you cook sweet potatoes the higher their energy density becomes and higher their GI becomes. The difference between boiled for 10 minutes and oven roasted for 40 minutes is almost double.


Fwiw, Nobody, I use a similar style of avoiding certain foods when trying to lose weight. I don't go about it quite the same way though. Instead of having a list of things I avoid, I just have a very short list of things that I will eat and just stick to them. Just dramatically reducing variety. Any fears of sub-optional nutrition profiles are allayed by running the quantities through cronometer but it's only for a short period to get a few kilos off before race season starts in a few weeks. I'm pretty much living on the same 2 meals every day plus an avocado for breakfast and it's suprisingly effective.


potatoes : usually microwaved here, for 4-8 minutes depending how many....either mashed with soy milk or sliced and thrown in a bowl of salad or vege.
though tonight after I bought 10kg A grade smaller sweet potatoes on Monday for 5 CENTS/kg, I've raw shredded and made potato cakes in a sandwich press! (sweet pottie, onion, shallots, a little buckwheat flour, a "seed egg", curry powder.) they didn't bind well as I didn't spend the time squeezing the moisture out of the potties and onions enough. I'll stick with my main way of cooking them, as I enjoy that.

Re weight loss, yes once you've learned a menu plan and portion sizes, you are set for whenever you want to get the k's off.
As we all know though, you can lose weight eating anything, as long as you get the total Cals right.

Nevertheless, it took me about 2 weeks switching over to salads as the weather warmed up to get my cravings settled. Incidentally, I wasn't eating a lot of junk to put on weight, just servings that were too big. I'll blame poor hydration, and working long and late....and the associated stress of dealing with multiple new and difficult personalities....and throw in two respiratory tract infections.

Anyway, the key factors for me calming cravings this time were
- disciplined hydration
- more raw (salads and fruit)
- measured starchy carbs, and only least processed.
- eating salad first (It's helped that I eat out of bowls mostly, so put beans and starch in first, then throw the salad or vege on top.)
- and surprisingly staying off the bike. I obviously needed a genuine rest after a lot of travel and cold weather.

I also agree it's smart to stick with a simple repeated eating plan once your response to it is predictably effective.

Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:01 pm

march83 wrote:The longer you cook sweet potatoes the higher their energy density becomes and higher their GI becomes. The difference between boiled for 10 minutes and oven roasted for 40 minutes is almost double.


Fwiw, Nobody, I use a similar style of avoiding certain foods when trying to lose weight. I don't go about it quite the same way though...

Thanks for posting. I'm glad someone else had heard of energy density changes.
It looks like your style of limiting meal types is quite time-frame specific. Since I appear to be always overshooting my goals in either direction, mine is more a periodic adjustment I let run until I overshoot again. I'd like to be more stable, but it just doesn't seem to happen. Anyway, I can think of worse problems to have. :)

warthog1
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby warthog1 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:20 pm

Haven't been on here much.
Haven't been cycling much in the bitter Vic winter either.
I have however recorded a BP of 135/100 :o . It is generally in a range of 10mmHg of 125/85 (i have been taking it regularly since.)
Well I better do something I guess.
More cycling (applied for a Flexible work agreement and got it. 2 10 hr days and 1 14 hour night shift one week and 3 10 hr day shifts and 1 14 hr night shift the next :D )
Time to go vegetarian for a start, I can't see myself sticking at vegan.
My 18 year old daughter has been a vego for 7 years so that will help. Her BP is around 90/60.
I watched this;

It gave me some ideas to start.

Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:52 pm

warthog1 wrote:Haven't been on here much.
Haven't been cycling much in the bitter Vic winter either.

Welcome back. :)
I haven't been riding much either lately, but that was because of a lingering flu. True, the weather hasn't helped.

warthog1 wrote:I have however recorded a BP of 135/100 :o . It is generally in a range of 10mmHg of 125/85 (i have been taking it regularly since.)

According to the new USA AHA BP catergories, you're at least Hyper Stage 1 because of the diastolic.

Image

warthog1 wrote:More cycling (applied for a Flexible work agreement and got it. 2 10 hr days and 1 14 hour night shift one week and 3 10 hr day shifts and 1 14 hr night shift the next :D )

Nice to see you finally got what you were looking for.

warthog1 wrote:Time to go vegetarian for a start, I can't see myself sticking at vegan.

One day at a time.
Start with substitution. Then give that 3 weeks or more. Then you may be ready to either substitute something else, or substitute the substitute with something even healthier. Whatever you do, you need time to make a habit form and for your taste to adapt.

warthog1 wrote:My 18 year old daughter has been a vego for 7 years so that will help. Her BP is around 90/60.

She has a great result, but as you know, most won't ever get close to it. Even if they eat the same. She is on the border of low BP according to BP UK. Personally I don't compare myself to females as I see them as different entities in regard to CVD risk numbers. Some can eat whatever and still have better cholesterol and BP numbers than me.

warthog1 wrote:I watched this;
...https://youtu.be/c1rIyhuJRzU...
It gave me some ideas to start.

Yes I've got a BP of 110/70. It took about 4 years or more to get there, but appears to be independent of exercise (long term). I can be 100/60 after a dehydrating ride.
IIRC, there appears to be two aspects to high BP. One is the obvious arterial damage and the other is the more viscus flowing blood from a poor diet. The former is long term, the latter short term. You can turn around in latter in a number of days to weeks according to McDougall.

warthog1
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby warthog1 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:01 am

Nobody wrote:According to the new USA AHA BP catergories, you're at least elevated.

I know I'm elevated. It was after coffee but I am predisposed from Mum's side. She was a 150ish cm tall woman who was very lean but ate a variety of animal products. She was on antihypertensives from about my age or younger I think.

Nobody wrote:Yes I've got a BP of 110/70. It took about 4 years to get there, but appears to be independent of exercise.
IIRC, there appears to be two aspects to high BP. One is the obvious arterial damage and the other is the more viscus flowing blood from a poor diet. The former is long term, the latter short term. You can turn around in latter in a number of days to weeks according to McDougall.


I have followed your story on these pages, though not so much lately.
I am aware of the great results diet can bring because of your journey and ability to cut through the BS thrown up by food inc.
So thankyou :)

Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:54 am

warthog1 wrote:I know I'm elevated...

Sorry I got that wrong and corrected before your post. I meant Hyper Stage 1 because of the diastolic. To you I'm stating the obvious since you should know more about this than me, you being in the medical industry. But I keep in mind that my posts are going to be read by a general audience.

Although some have criticised the lower BP categories as a push by Big Pharma to get more sales. I think it's a benefit because it engages more people to accept there is a problem sooner and start lifestyle changes before a more serious problem arises. From the American College of Cardiology:
The new definition will result in nearly half of the U.S. adult population (46 percent) having high blood pressure, with the greatest impact expected among younger people. Additionally, the prevalence of high blood pressure is expected to triple among men under age 45, and double among women under 45, the guideline authors note. However, only a small increase is expected in the number of adults requiring antihypertensive medication.


Same as I believe the normal range for total cholesterol (TC) should be below 3.9 mmol/L. It shouldn't start at 3.9 and go to 5.5 (in AU) considering the science says that under 3.9 is the actual safe zone. My TC was 3.4 in Feb, with a LDL of 2.0. Both on the high side for how I eat, yet under-range for TC according to the AU specs.
http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=83496&start=2850#p1444995

warthog1 wrote:I have followed your story on these pages...So thank you :)

You're welcome of course. Helping people like yourself is one of the rewards of the effort I put into these threads. :D


Another 5 days before I hit the milestone of 5 years since my change to eating vegan. There have been plenty of changes since then. So you might embrace the changes and the situation might snowball from there. In years to come you might be posting about your no-meds BP of 110/70. :)

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:42 am

Re BP just taken, I attribute diet for about 50% of enduring effect, stress mgt 30%, and cycling 20%.

Image

When down south recently, I did over 500 health assessments (for mining and solar farm construction), most including BP.
I only measured one guy with BP under 130/85.
He was 48yo, BMI 22, exercised regularly, and was retraining to be a clinical psychologist (working on solar farms to make money).....and long term WFPB. His strength and endurance were all very much superior (step test and treadmill recoveries).
I had about 12 guys who had to be referred a GP due to dangerously high BP, the worst being 170/125 (at rest). I was suspicious he may have a recreational drug habit (amphetamines). Either way, he wasn't passing any physical despite being healthy bodyweight.

Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:07 am

CKinnard wrote:When down south recently, I did over 500 health assessments (for mining and solar farm construction), most including BP.
I only measured one guy with BP under 130/85.

Wow, that's telling of the construction industry. Which I've heard in general have the worst diets. It goes to show, the activity won't make up for a poor diet. A friend who's 5'10" and 130 kg, so BMI 41, also works in the construction industry as a foreman.

CKinnard wrote:He was 48yo, BMI 22, exercised regularly,...and long term WFPB. His strength and endurance were all very much superior (step test and treadmill recoveries).

Do you remember his BP?

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:50 am

Nobody wrote:
CKinnard wrote:When down south recently, I did over 500 health assessments (for mining and solar farm construction), most including BP.
I only measured one guy with BP under 130/85.

Wow, that's telling of the construction industry. Which I've heard in general have the worst diets. It goes to show, the activity won't make up for a poor diet. A friend who's 5'10" and 130 kg, so BMI 41, also works in the construction industry as a foreman.

CKinnard wrote:He was 48yo, BMI 22, exercised regularly,...and long term WFPB. His strength and endurance were all very much superior (step test and treadmill recoveries).

Do you remember his BP?


Yes it was excellent : it was closer to 110/70 than 120/80, around 113/73. which was great considering most guys are a bit anxious about the physical because it can effect their income. I distinctly remember because I had to write a letter to his new employer to drive home that he was in excellent health and fine for a better paying more physical role that he was considered too old for (unwritten criteria which I was privy to). We talked a lot about diet and longevity. He had been vegan for 20 odd years, but for the last 5 years was all over Esselstyn, Barnard, Greger, and was really well informed about nutrient dense eating.

We met socially once to discuss a business idea he had. He was renting a larger house, and rented spare rooms to 2 backpackers (working farms). We talked about him buying a place he could re-model to get more backpackers into at cheaper rates, and establish a healthy WFPB culture. He had never thought of doing something on a bigger scale. I also suggested if he gets enough money, he could consider buying a smaller farm, and tap into the Israeli kibbutz model. The govt regs at the moment re backpackers could accommodate this i.e they do 'n' months of agricultural work, after which they can get their visa extended and start doing work in the metro areas. It seems to work well. He could tap into that. I also did a lot of physical ax on backpackers, and most are very communally driven, and looking for greater life meaning, so would thrive in a setting where the culture is super healthy, communal, cooperative, and they picking up excellent skillsets , for health and making a living wherever they end up living. Interestingly, the German backpackers were across the board the healthiest and fittest, and the UK the least...and there was good balance of males and females, actually probably 55-60% females. They seem to buy into the dream of traveling to Australia, working farms, and having a good time. I remember one attractive and fit girl from Norway in particular. It was obvious she was going through a hard time, and maybe suffering mild depression. She revealed she had come to Australia to help find greater life meaning, what she might be good at, and what to do with her life. I think her Australian experience would be so much more rewarding in a kibbutz type set up. as it would be for many I met.

Another very young English fella (19yo) sticks in my mind too. He was really determined, and a go getter. Had been out here a bit longer, but had got a job in a call center the previous year, then picked to be a manager, and had a 2nd job with one of those companies that set up stalls in the shopping centers canvassing people to change their gas or electricity provider. At one stage he was making $2500/w. He was chasing money (and saving), so I put him in touch with a couple of mining companies in the Bowen Basin where the drivers make $120k+. He emailed me last week saying he had just had his first interview (and it was essentially in the bag after more physicals and background checks), and thanking me very much.

When you've talked with thousands of people, you meet a lot with enthusiasm and energy. But 'follow through' and persisting against knock backs is much much rarer. This guy I felt was definitely going to hit his goals, whatever they may be. I could understand why most people would enjoy interacting with him - positive optimistic, hungry to learn, a great listener, (and doing it without the benefit of university education). He really stood out from the other backpackers, especially being so young. He also bought into my mantra to eat more vege and less animal bits. The idea of thinking of food as fuel rather than a source of hedonic pleasure clicked with him, as did me explaining most manual workers are unable to keep up the work rate or intensity by 45yo. Sold him on the idea of what's the point of making a lot of money and retiring early if your knees are smashed and you are hobbled by a pacemaker.

warthog1
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby warthog1 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:55 pm

Thanks fellas :)
Pity I cant lie in bed all day :lol:
Last 2 mornings I've hit the 110/70.
It comes up during the day and obviously with postural change from lying flat.
Stress and coffee aren't helping.
Diastolic in the mid 80s sitting at rest HR around 50.
I'll see how I go cutting out meat eggs and dairy a small amount of cheese my be hard to avoid. We'll see.
Haven't consumed cow's milk for over 10 years (did someone mention spray painting. :oops: )
Had a heap of flaxseed meal in the cupboard, so I'm back on that already.
We went out for dinner last night and I picked a vego option. Not bad.
I didn't miss the steak.
Avoiding chronic hypertension may give me the direct, practical motivation I've been missing :)

Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:33 pm

CKinnard wrote:Yes it was excellent : it was closer to 110/70 than 120/80, around 113/73. which was great considering most guys are a bit anxious about the physical because it can effect their income...but for the last 5 years was all over Esselstyn, Barnard, Greger, and was really well informed about nutrient dense eating.

Thanks CK. So the only guy that had a good BP in over 500 was WFPB. I still find that shocking. That is like < 0.2% with good BP. Which in some areas would be the rate of WFPB eaters I suppose. I've strongly suspected we are < 1% of the population.

CKinnard wrote:The idea of thinking of food as fuel rather than a source of hedonic pleasure clicked with him, as did me explaining most manual workers are unable to keep up the work rate or intensity by 45yo. Sold him on the idea of what's the point of making a lot of money and retiring early if your knees are smashed and you are hobbled by a pacemaker.

Totally agree. It all seems pointless placing money and pleasure above health. But due to ignorance, they follow the crowd.

Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:49 pm

warthog1 wrote:Had a heap of flaxseed meal in the cupboard, so I'm back on that already.

I've heard that ground flax/linseed can go rancid reasonably quickly. So you might want to store it in the fridge.
warthog1 wrote:Avoiding chronic hypertension may give me the direct, practical motivation I've been missing :)

Sometimes we need a boot to get us moving. Mine was trying to avoid my Meniere's Disease and other health conditions (back, knees, lethargy, etc) getting worse so I could still support my family.

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:51 pm

Nobody wrote:
warthog1 wrote:Had a heap of flaxseed meal in the cupboard, so I'm back on that already.

I've heard that ground flax/linseed can go rancid reasonably quickly. So you might want to store it in the fridge.
warthog1 wrote:Avoiding chronic hypertension may give me the direct, practical motivation I've been missing :)

Sometimes we need a boot to get us moving. Mine was trying to avoid my Meniere's Disease and other health conditions (back, knees, lethargy, etc) getting worse so I could still support my family.


or buy whole flaxseed, and stick a few week's worth in the blender as required, and store in freezer or fridge.

how's your Meniere's these days Nobody?

another way to keep BP down is to cut salt intake back if it is excessive. salt leads to increased blood volume which increases BP independently of other causes.

my BP earlier, 10 mins after lunch, and a full morning
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IsldIgOTbcJSOvduNEQGCVHXHrQQ7BGD

Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:14 pm

CKinnard wrote:...how's your Meniere's these days Nobody?

It's still there. Not getting any better. Thanks for asking.

CKinnard wrote:...another way to keep BP down is to cut salt intake back if it is excessive. salt leads to increased blood volume which increases BP independently of other causes.

Thanks. I only put a bit of salt into my water after a ride. Otherwise I'm salt free.

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:03 pm

Nobody wrote:
CKinnard wrote:...how's your Meniere's these days Nobody?

It's still there. Not getting any better. Thanks for asking.

CKinnard wrote:...another way to keep BP down is to cut salt intake back if it is excessive. salt leads to increased blood volume which increases BP independently of other causes.

Thanks. I only put a bit of salt into my water after a ride. Otherwise I'm salt free.


There's a hypothesis that Meniere's originates from nerve dysregulation in the neck.
If you have never experimented, it would be interesting to see how 12 weeks of hatha yoga asanas (even 10-15 minutes every 2nd day) impacted your symptoms.
Having a good manual therapist (physio) assess and treat your neck a few times would also be interesting.

The theory is the sympathetic nerves that control cerebral artery dilation state and permeability of lympatics and other vessels associated with the ear, can be adversely influenced by mechanical and chemical factors in the cervical spine. If these factors are eased by restoring something approaching normal function to the neck joints and soft tissue, then this may influence sympathetic tone in the tissues associated with Meniere's symptoms.

And yes, I realize you don't have BP issues Nobody. Wartie does though!

warthog1
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby warthog1 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:13 pm

Yeah I'm aware of the salt thanks CK.
I don't add it to anything but there is no doubt more than I need in the processed food I (have) eat(en)
Back on the bike again tonight.
2 days off the meat.
Coffee is on the way down. Only one today, back from 3 or 4 espresso machine goers.

Nobody
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:25 am

This video gives evidence that omega-6 fats may also contribute to insulin resistance.



It would be nice if researchers used grams per kg of body weight (g/kgBW) as a measurement reference, rather than the less meaningful percentage of dietary intake.
I'm going to try to keep my total fat intake below 0.4 g/kgBW (currently 0.43) or about 8% of total Cal intake according to my speasheet* as Cronometer doesn't give me the g/kgBW detail.

* - My spreadsheet uses AU food datasheet values and Cronometer uses US values. Since I live in AU, eating mainly AU produce, I'm using the spreadsheet values. The Cronometer values vary by as much as 3%.

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:25 pm

Nobody wrote:This video gives evidence that omega-6 fats may also contribute to insulin resistance.
.


Thanks for posting. I am not meaning to be the universal cynic, BUT......

This vid highlights the problem in interpreting the literature. Unless one reads prolifically and/or works in the field full time, it is difficult to weight causal relationships appropriately. This lady's skewed perspective is all you have to do is reduce saturated fat, and your insulin resistance will reverse, just like spudfit did. Why? because saturated fat CAUSES insulin resistance! But she overlooks that spudfit was on a big Calorie deficit.

This ignores other evidence showing the following induce insulin resistance.

1. overeating.
Excess carbs and fats overwhelm the body's means to clear them from the blood which leads to production of oxidized products in the plasma. This can cause insulin resistance within 2 days.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24916552
These then bind to proteins in the blood stream which includes GLUT4, a major membrane signaler for glucose uptake by all cells.
https://www.laboratoryequipment.com/new ... tudy-shows

2. excess bodyfat.
THis is due to fat spillover, in which fat cells have peaked in their capacity to store more carbs or fat, as fat. The products then get deposited ectopically and increase in the blood stream.
https://youtu.be/wQH50tCEbdw

3. emotional stress.
this is mediated by elevated cortisol which causes insulin resistance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4919480/

4. a week of bedrest
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/65/10/2862

5. sleep deprivation
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20371664

It also ignores that blood glucose levels normalize after
- lowering Calorie intake no matter the macro ratio (hence why low carb has gained so much attention)
- fasting
- increasing physical exercise (muscles increase their uptake of plasma glucose)

Nobody
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Location: Sydney

Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:29 pm

Thanks. I'll take your word for it.
I just thought the PUFA omega-6 being harmful was interesting. Knowing this information should help to keep my LDL lower over the long term.

Nobody
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Location: Sydney

Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:08 pm

I thought the history of Weight Watchers and how they've changed over the years was interesting.


I thought the Pritikin's history of recording his blood tests was the most interesting part of this video.

CKinnard
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:42 pm

Nobody wrote:Thanks. I'll take your word for it.
I just thought the PUFA omega-6 being harmful was interesting. Knowing this information should help to keep my LDL lower over the long term.


yep n- 6:3 ratio is important due to the competition between both FAs to use the same enzymes to be reduced to usable form.
A high n-6 intake reduces n-3 conversion rate. which I mentioned in that other thread.

I had a look at this lady's education quals the other day and wasn't impressed. It's a Ph.D from an online university, and I presume she didn't have to do undergrad or honors before. Nevertheless, I appreciate she has read reasonably and presents logically....but there's just too many cognitive traps.....

my preferred nutrition experts today are

Brenda Davis
(based on a long and good balance of clinical experience, historical perspective, being on multiple advisory boards, having educated for decades, publishing vegan books). I think it can take years to gain balanced insight into all relevant issues.
It's like Amanda starting to look seriously at previously unconsidered risks of being vegan. How many WFPB are prepared to stand back and observe the field dispassionately like that? not many. I've even seen a lack of objectivity from Michael Greger.

Jack Norris
primarily based on his excellent writing and info at his website, which he seems to keep up to date.

I had a meeting with 2 young Brisbane dietitians a few weeks ago. They are advocates for WFPB, but there was still a lot of holes in their knowledge. About a year ago, I went to one of Brisbane's top Sports Dietitian clinics for a professional dev't talk. Once again, lots of holes.
What's apparent to me is nutrition is extremely difficult to stay on top of. One would have to read at least 10 hours most weeks after graduating to do so I think. When you only make money by having clients sitting in front of you, that's a tough gig.

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