Nuts...

[toolonglegs]

This is a totally serious question...aimed at the medical dudes out there.
Some of you are aware I have been having some pretty serious pains of late...my groin pain got so bad my doctor told me to stop racing.It also (I think) has aggravated my not so strong lower back because I constantly feel twisted.That is slightly another matter but I am having an ERM next week to confirm whether I have disc damage.
But anyway...back to nuts .
Today I spent half my ride with my hand down my knicks...luckily I live in the countryside so only the wildlife would have wondered who that pervert riding around was!.
Anyway here is my observation...everytime my right leg comes up it tries to push my rh side testicle into my groin.Actually quite often that rh testicle isn't sitting in the sack but right up in my groin.Now I have pretty big ripped thighs and when I am pushing the is some force there.So everytime my leg raises it is squashing my nut in my groin.
Thinking back this would be why 20 minute intervals have always aggravated the pain because I am usually in the drops (so reducing hip angle) and I am pushing hard.
I have also for the last (shite I cant remember exactly) quite a while,6 months or more been continually pulling down the material on the rh side of my thigh to take the perceived pressure off my nuts.
I have no pains in my nuts on rides..but they do ache afterwards (I think mainly the right) usually at night.I also have no sexual problems...phew.

SO the question is...how does that area down there work and why would my testicle so easily be pushed into my groin.It never ever happens on the lh side.It is like I am sloppy on that side and the slightest pressure pushes my nut up into the groin.

I have been checked by a surgeon for hernias (zero) and had an MRI for the smaller femoral hernia (nothing showed up).

My next step to see if I am right is to try one of these seats (below) that I actually have ordered before this dawned on me.
And maybe try something very loosely around my nut sac to keep the balls in the right place!.

I admit I was buzzing (not from riding with my hand down my pants!) when I walked in the door from my ride as I am 95% certain I may have found my problem.

[Mulger bill]

That can't be fun Toolong, even with yer hand in yer pants.

Aren't these the saddles that go on "backwards"? I s'pose not having anything between the thighs will mean more room for the lads...

Good luck getting it sorted.

Shaun

[zero]

They don't hang at the same height, by design. So one goes down, one goes up when the space runs out. Locating them more precisely may improve matters, but it may just cause them to crush more readily.

If you do an entire ride off the saddle, do you come back without pain ?

[toolonglegs]

No saddle goes on the normal way...it just has enormous cut outs and supposedly cuts off very little or no blood supply when you are in the low positions.

Zero..I never do an entire ride off the saddle.I pretty much do all my training pretty hard so just sit in the drops and hammer out 5 or 20 minute intervals.I will have a play around over the weekend and next week to see if I can ride pain free.

Edit:Ok putting something round them won't work...It would be like docking lambs tails .
Maybe taping my groin...but that would mean taking hair removal to a new level .

[flammer]

These saddles are to remove pressure from the, ahem, further back, aren't they?

Hope it doesn't come down to, what do you love most?

[toolonglegs]

I suppose there is only one way to find out...if it doesn't stop the problem then I think I will try taping my crutch.
This is only one part of the problem...I still have to sort out my back and hips...but I think they are a muscular problem.Will know after the ERM next week for sure.
Getting a bit tired of being a cripple...that is for sure!.

[drubie]

Far be it from me to suggest anything to you TLL, but I think you need to seriously re-assess your bike fit - I know you're a big guy and all (and I assume, ahem, in proportion) but having one of the boys trying to hide back inside is not good. Seat angle, relationship to pedals, the whole thing.

The cutouts in the saddle don't address anything really - I think they're bogus (and, to be honest, aimed at fat blokes with a lot of excess soft tissue around the taint). They'll do nothing for the twig'n'berries on anybody who isn't carrying a 20kg handicap.

If you're anything like me, I reckon the boys are actually getting smacked around by your thighs and going into "auto retract". Perhaps you need some slimmer fitting knicks (I know my "fat guy" knicks occasionally give me a sore nut for that reason). The tight knicks keep everything secure, so no inadvertent nut shots from the thigh and no retraction. That, and chucking bad saddles away and sticking to whatever really, actually fits (Selle Turbo for me, pity the hipsters have made them so expensive). Maybe sitting forward a little when seated climbing so the thigh doesn't come up quite so high and squish stuff.

[toolonglegs]

I think my bike fit is pretty good...Steve Hogg set me up a while back.
I notice now that I am back on the training bike the problem is possibly a bit reduced running 175 instead of 180mm cranks...I also have Assos and Bernard Thevenet knicks...both are very comfy and snug.
I could lose a couple of kilos (BMI 24.5) but you wouldn't call me fat.
Yesterday and today I have ridden with my saddle nose dropped down quite a bit...no difference.Ok I am not in agony like when I am doing the really hard efforts or races but that is probably because my rides are all sub 1 hour at the mo and not very hard.
If the saddle doesn't work then I will just ebay it....although it is a 140 euro saddle!.I think the design is very different from a normal cut out saddle..these are made for TT'ers and Tri riders who spend a lot of time down really low...hence the reason I am going to give it a go.
But I will take the plunge and try taping my crutch region over the weekend to see if that makes any difference...just trying to cross things off the list .

[m@]

Edit:Ok putting something round them won't work...It would be like docking lambs tails .

That's a fairly extreme solution!

If you are conscious of being uncomfortable, could you be unintentionally clenching your stomach muscles and pulling the lads upwards? Probably not the root cause of the problem but could be making it worse.

[Parrott]

Those saddles are designed to sit you as far forward as possible within the UCI 5cm rule. They are the minimum length I think and the back part of the saddle is just there to make up the length, you dont sit on it. There are 3 in our club on tt bikes and they all seem to like them. I had a go on a mates p2 and it seemed a bit wide to me, seemed to chafe my inner thigh. The seat was too high though as he is a bit taller than me so that could have been the reason, none of them who have them set up properly are complaining. Anyway what I am crapping on about is that I dont think they are narrow enough to help you with your problem unless you sit far enough forward that your nads hang over the front, which is maybe not a long term solution for teh miles you are doing? Good luck though interested to see how you find the saddle.

Don't know if they're any cheaper here?

[flammer]

It's closer to marking lambs!

But I think I can 'visualize' the taping technique. Firm enough to prevent retraction, but loose enough to allow circulation. I used to have a similar problem with wetsuits, but the high knee action of cycling is far worse. It was only the right one too!

[Rhubarb]

Maybe taping my groin...but that would mean taking hair removal to a new level .

So you've had twins but no vasectomy ?

When "Fuzzy Bear" becomes "Kermet the Frog" it is a whole different weird feeling completely. (so many off topic stories there....)

Seriously though, I have heard of a number of testicular cycling problems, and they can be pretty serious so I hope you get it sorted. If nothing else I'd miss your reports

I have too skinnier legs (and probably too smaller testicles ) to ever have this problem but you never know. I commute 190 kms per week on a roadie and I generally go pretty hard (for a skinny legged, flabby gutted, 42 yr old).

Good luck and get it properly sorted.

[trailgumby]

It may be bike position, but in a way that is slightly different from what has been suggested.

TLL, it may be that you have some kind of structural asymmetry that is causing the issue. The fact the issue is only on one side is a clue. Not a conclusive one, but one that suggests a certain line of investigation.

When I went to see Steve Hogg, I was so bad that he cut the session short and sent me off to a manipulative physio that he recommended, to get me straightened out first. Hips were twisted and rolled, non-symmetric pedalling action, shoulders not straight, the works. Once that program succeeded, I didn't actually need to go back to Steve because my pain was gone.

The thing that struck me (decisively) is that I thought I was straight. Ha! That little jig that Steve has in the corner to evaluate your posture proved that I was anything but straight. The manip physio made a comment that I was "complex" - I think that was a polite euphemism for "you're in a huge mess buddy and have no idea".

Is there anybody in France you can use who would be as competent as Steve and his web of contacts?

[toolonglegs]

I definately have a structural problem...my hips are pretty screwed.Twisted and rotated...but that is down in a large part to my scolosis (spelling?) and nothing I can do about it.I walk twisted too.
I sort of have 3 issues at the moment...the groin problem...the hip problem and the back problem.I think the hip and back are related...possibly caused by the groin problem.
Anyway a saddle is pretty cheap to try compared to other things.I will also try the taping because it is pretty simple.
Back scan is next week so will see what that shows up.
Oh the fun and games of getting old!.

[nickj_d]

toolong, i only came onto the health forum to start my own thread about my sore boys, and there was your thread at the top of the list.

i seem to have the same symptoms as you, although i wouldn't be doing as much km's, and i definately don't have large thighs - chicken legs is the term normally usually used to describe my legs. I ride socially once or twice a week and afterwards (mostly the next day) i walk around feeling like someone's kicked me in the nuts.

For me the problem has only started in the last two months. I took a bit of break from riding for a few weeks, mainly due to the sydney weather, but it was a good chance to give my nuts a break. But on my first ride back on thursday night, by about 30km's in, the pain in my nuts whilst riding was almost to the point of having to stop.

I have a selle italia saddle with a cut out, which i've been riding for the last 5-6 months so i should be used to it by now, and i haven't changed anything in my setup recently to have obviously caused this problem to start (my seat is set up level).

i haven't played around with seat position yet, only because i'm not too sure what might help. am happy to hear suggestions from others as (though not too keen on the strapping idea).

I haven't been to a doctor yet, mainly because i'm expecting them just to tell me to stop riding if it hurts.

[Parrott]

I'd be checking your nads for iregularities in shape if they are causing you pain also. Definitely see a doctor if there are lumps and pain that shouldn't be there on palpation. Don't want to do a LA. The incidence of testicular cancer is fairly low I believe but it is there. I'm not a doc which is probably evident if you have read any of my posts by the way .

[toolonglegs]

Nick...the thing for me is that my nuts are not really that sore.Like I say they do ache a bit at night and after the ride...but the real pain comes from where they get crushed into my groin...even after my ride when they are quite happily sitting back down below my groin keeps killing me.
I have been on my Fizik Alliante for maybe 4 years now...definately over 3.I am very comfortable (well I was before my back blew out) on the bike...done plenty of races up to 6-7 hours long last year with no problems.
If I can remember rightly this problem started when I spent a lot of time on the aero bars late last season.
Nick you sound like you either have a compressed nerve or need a good check over just to make sure.

[zues]

I had a similar problem 10yrs ago when I was doing alot of physical work and driving long hours with my right foot continuously on the accelerator pedal. My right nut would retract up and I had an overall pain in that area and my lower back. I use to try and swap legs on the pedal to get some relief. I put it down to RSI and bad seat posture.
Went to my doctor and specialist to check for hernia's-nothing found.
Slowly got better after 3months.
PS Maybe overdoing the sex could be the reason

[nickj_d]

The other night was the first time I'd been in so much pain whilst riding. Normally I just wake up the next morning feeling like someone's snuck in while I'm asleep and spent the night kicking me in the nuts (on second thoughts, now i have my suspicions.............)

I'll give my seat a slightly lower angle and see if it makes any difference. It's a bit odd though that I rode for 4-5 months with the same seat, same set up, doing the same amount of km's and never had a problem. If it keeps up I'll get to a doctor because it definately doesn't feel like it's doing me good!

[philip]

TLL this doesn't sound like it's your problem but I thought I'd put it out there just in case - I have a pair of bib knicks that are a bit too small so the shoulder bits are pretty tight and pull up too much so don't leave a lot of room down there. I only wear them for shorter rides, if it's a long ride or I hang around at the cafe wearing them (seems that the discomfort comes more when I'm off the bike than on) they can be a bit sore for the rest of the day. So if you're using bib knicks, perhaps try wearing just plain knicks and make sure there's plenty of room for things to hang about?

[toolonglegs]

Nah bib knicks aren't my problem...but I know what you mean...quite often that is the hardest part to get a good fit on!.I've lost 13kilos since the start of Feb so all my clothing is a bit loose...although my 2 regular pairs of knicks seem to still be nice and snug.

[foo on patrol]

That makes sense Philip when you think about it! You are hunched over when you are on the bars so, everything is being pulled back up to the groin and squashed. You don't always think of these obvious side effects.

Foo

[MiG]

The cutouts in the saddle don't address anything really - I think they're bogus (and, to be honest, aimed at fat blokes with a lot of excess soft tissue around the taint). They'll do nothing for the twig'n'berries on anybody who isn't carrying a 20kg handicap.

Cut out saddles work for me and I don't think I'd fit your definition of a fat bloke: 183 cm and 75 kg with weights work contributing to the weight. It depends on the person; for me a Fizik Arione is a groin numbing hatchet despite so many people saying they're a comfortable saddle.

[toolonglegs]

OK...I got my new saddle today...weird thing...will take a while to get the set up right but I will stick with it for a while.Bit like a SelleSMP but more comfy...I HATED my SMP (and my Fizik Arione by the way MiG...it was agony for me as well).First thing I notice with the new saddle was that all my bits sat in the groove well and there was no pressure at all on them ...2nd thing I noticed pretty much with in 500 meters was that my testicle went straight back up .
SO...I went home and taped my nut sack up (and all that was invovled to accomplish this as well !).
But I had to try and this is the only way I could think of.
So end result was a 1.5 hour ride with a load of stops trying to get the saddle right...a bit of a sore back (I have my ERM tommorow) and pretty sore hip joints still.But no groin pain!.
OK it is early days but it is promising.
Anyway after lazing around after dinner tonight I suddenly felt like a ride ...so at 8.45pm I taped up and headed out the door (daylight till nearly 10pm here)...and the saddle felt good straight away,not overly comfortable bit not too bad.So I opened up the engines ...and headed out on my quick 22km loop...35.5minutes later I was home with an average speed of 35.7kmph including a little warm up...ZERO groin pain!!!...sore hips still but back was good even thou I spent nearly the whole time in the drops.
OK a 308 w av isn't great...so we won't talk about how unfit I am but I have my fingers crossed!.

[MichaelB]

Sounds promising..... Keep taping !!

Hope you washed the gloves after the first ride that you talked about in the OP .....