fatigue

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fatigue

Postby jules21 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:19 pm

for 3 weeks now, i've been fatigued. i commute daily and my power output is right down. possible causes:
1. virus, according to doctor. but i don't have any other obvious symptoms. i had a blood sample taken and they didn't call me back, so it must be OK. they also declined to put it back in.
2. stress/exhuastion. i've had some additional stress lately and haven't always slept soundly.

does anyone experience this sort of thing? it's strange, i can still complete long rides - i ride to basketball which is about 3 hours including the game, but just at a lower intensity. the moment i try to go above a threshold effort the lactic acid and/or tiredness kicks straight in. it's like there's a governor fitted to my engine.

i've had this before, but it has disappeared after a few days. i just assumed it was a cold or virus or something, but 3 weeks is a long time.
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by BNA » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:28 pm

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Re: fatigue

Postby m@ » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:28 pm

Have you tried taking a few days off from the bike?
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Re: fatigue

Postby jules21 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:32 pm

no, but i'm going to thailand for 3 weeks on sunday so it will be interesting to see how i feel when i return.

this is beyond just normal tiredness after a hard ride though, it's different.
Last edited by jules21 on Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fatigue

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:32 pm

I have had it before.

Last year I just felt like I had "dead" legs on every ride. On my weekly hill ride I was literally crawling up at a walking pace. I took a week off (no riding) but I wasn't any better. Took 3 months to recover.

Earlier this year I had a virus infection and now have post viral fatigue. I can complete long ride physically fine but I feel dreadful. Pretty much for the whole ride I feel like I am starting to head towards passing out, from lightheaded to sort of seeing starts to the start of black mist coming in.

The feeling between "dead" legs last year and fatigue this year is completely different. I also find on the train in to work on the morning if I shut my eyes I feel similar to on a ride... like I am starting to head towards passing out or feeling like I just want to crawl into bed and sleep.

You could have over done your training or could just be suffering from lack of sleep (or a combination of both). You could try having a easier week training wise and see if that helps.
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Re: fatigue

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:33 pm

jules21 wrote:no, but i'm going to thailand for 3 weeks on sunday so it will be interesting to see how i feel when i return.

Might depend on how well you sleep. I didn't sleep well in Melbourne and have felt worse since I got back to Perth.
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Re: fatigue

Postby jules21 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:38 pm

i struggle to believe that it's over-training. i don't ride that much, my longest ride at the moment is 3 hours or so, once a week. normally i just get stronger as i increase training. i'm hoping its just exhaustion - work has been really intense lately and the stress has wound me up a bit, but i'm scared that it could be post viral fatigue or similar. i don't dare say the CFS phrase :?
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Re: fatigue

Postby wombatK » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:44 pm

jules21 wrote:for 3 weeks now, i've been fatigued. i commute daily and my power output is right down. possible causes:
1. virus, according to doctor. but i don't have any other obvious symptoms. i had a blood sample taken and they didn't call me back, so it must be OK. they also declined to put it back in.

Do you know what the Dr tested for ?

Was it a fasting blood glucose test (to check for diabetes) where you've got to fast 12 hours before it ? Did it include kidney and liver function tests ? I'd be going back to the Dr and ask him what you should do next, especially if the blood tests done to date weren't comprehensive - I don't know if medicare allows Dr to do all the tests on an initial examination, suspect maybe not.

Also know of patients who had very very serious blood troubles that weren't called back by doctors when really really prompt action was necessary - so don't assume "absence of evidence is evidence of absence" with regard to being called back.

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Re: fatigue

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:51 pm

jules21 wrote:i struggle to believe that it's over-training. i don't ride that much, my longest ride at the moment is 3 hours or so, once a week. normally i just get stronger as i increase training. i'm hoping its just exhaustion - work has been really intense lately and the stress has wound me up a bit, but i'm scared that it could be post viral fatigue or similar. i don't dare say the CFS phrase :?

I was diagnosed with post viral fatigue based on a blood test and symptoms. It feels different to a lack of sleep over time and symptoms are not constant. I have better days and worse days. Right now I come home from work and sleep for 2 hours. Probably 1 day a fortnight I feel too tired to make it into work. Some days, pretty much all day I feel like sleeping (mostly I don't though).

I can tell you in my experience it is qualitatively different to lack of sleep over time. I reckon lack of sleep over time affected my performance more than post viral fatigue has.

For me: lack of sleep over time- poor bike performance, felt tired but didn't feel like I "had" to sleep, didn't feel like I had a lot of energy in my legs
post viral fatigue- bike performance is ok, feel like I "have" to sleep, energy in my legs is pretty good.
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Re: fatigue

Postby Downhill » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:26 pm

I suggest making an appointment to review the test results. It can bring peace of mind.

You mentioned stress, so I assume that you suspect it's a significant part of the cause. Have you noticed any other changes, e.g. loss of appetite, loss of interest in things that you normally enjoy, etc? Have you recently changed your diet or training regime? Are you working longer hours or odd hours? Are you studying for exams or anything like that? Are you drinking enough pure water and controlling the caffeine / sugar intake? How long since your last holiday?

You also mentioned that you'd had it before. What are the similarities and differences between this time and previously? How did you overcome it? Did you notice anything that affected the outcome?

It might just be your body's way of telling you to slow down a little and bring all the variables back into balance. I'm no doctor though, so I strongly recommend checking back with your GP.
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Re: fatigue

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:06 am

They don't ring you back with results unless, it life threatening!

If you are not sleeping properly then this will have a big impact on you. :( ( possibly sleep apnea ) I have this in the chronic range and have not slept properly for 20+ years and feel like crap all the time. :roll:
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Re: fatigue

Postby wombatK » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:05 am

foo on patrol wrote:They don't ring you back with results unless, it life threatening!

The case I was thinking about was very life threatening, and when the patient turned up to the doctors a week after the test, she was sent immediately to hospital. Don't assume you'll be called in if there's bad news or something that needs prompt attention ; some doctors are much less perfect than they should be.
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fatigue

Postby DrJay » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:17 am

wombatK wrote:
foo on patrol wrote:They don't ring you back with results unless, it life threatening!

The case I was thinking about was very life threatening, and when the patient turned up to the doctors a week after the test, she was sent immediately to hospital. Don't assume you'll be called in if there's bad news or something that needs prompt attention ; some doctors are much less perfect than they should be.


I'll also agree with that. Despite the fact that most fatigue remains unexplained, it's well worth chasing. Most doctors intend to chase up the patient about results, but don't have a good system to make sure it actually happens.
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Re: fatigue

Postby trailgumby » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:28 am

You sound like you're well into overtaining to me. The fact that you are riding daily is a clue.

Try taking one week easy every four (every three if over 40) to give your body time to recover - half training load or less, back the intensity right off, maybe take the entire week off if you're feeling really stale.

PM me and I can send you a training program from a back issue of Australian Mountain Bike for 100km enduro racing. You'll be surprised how little time on the bike is actually required midweek, with longer rides on the weekend. The author is quite adamant that recovery rides mean RECOVERY.

Training actually reduces your fitness. Yes, I did actually just type that.

It's the training + RECOVERY cycle that improves fitness. If you don't give yourself adequate recovery time before the next hard session you just bury yourself in an ever-deepening hole. Since adopting the recovery week (every third for me) my fitness has made significant improvements.
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Re: fatigue

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:04 am

Could be that you are riding too hard all the time as well. Try one hard day then the next easier as this gives the muscles time to repair.

Look into all the other suggestions to from this thread.
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Re: fatigue

Postby wheels46 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:33 am

Jules I'm also inclined to think in this day and age we spend so much time on a computer (or desk an dchair) and it really de-stablises our motivation.

I'd have some faith in your doctor not calling you back. Few weeks in Thailand and you'll come back wanting to take on the world ! This time of the year really does all our heads in. :)

I always look forward to my workouts and rides but find being stuck on the comp for at least 8 hours and more a day really saps the motivation. So much so I try and hop on the bike and crank out a very intense hour at lunch time. Puts my head back in a good place.

FWIW I'm off to Thailand and Malaysia at the end of the year. Wish it was tomorrow!! :lol:

Hope it all works out well for you.
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Re: fatigue

Postby sogood » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:37 am

Daily commute shouldn't lead up to fatigue unless it's above a certain intensity. Rest and/or lower the intensity to avoid the problem.
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fatigue

Postby Comedian » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:42 am

I had a similar thing happening and some Magnesium tablets were a big help.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: fatigue

Postby Missy24 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:45 am

You need to go to the doctor to get your test results, they wont call you. I had mine done and the only thing that was a little low was my Vitamin D, the doctor told me to take Vitamin D with added calcium (cause the added calcium wouldn't hurt) and that would probably help, I've had it sitting in my apartment for months and haven't taken it and still been tired.

I woke up today for the first time in ages feeling good and I bounced out of bed, now I don't know if its the Vitamin D that's given me that extra perk, I slept terribly last night, but I've still got energy to burn this morning.

I used to have issues with checking my emails at 2am in the morning, I'd wake up and I'd do that, for no other reason than I was awake... I've stopped doing that, sure I still check to see if I haev emails (OCD) but I don't read or reply.
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Re: fatigue

Postby The Womble » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:56 am

Sleep is a major factor. Being bi-polar, I can go for days with hardly more than 2 hours a night and everything during my day feels like a gargantuan effort. Try anything to make you sleepy and stick to a routine.
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Re: fatigue

Postby Missy24 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:14 am

You could be tired of your routine as well, its been a really long winter Jules and its been hard to get out and do things, my friends and I (the ones who don't ride) used to do breakfast every saturday and at some point in winter it got too cold and we went for like two months without this little bit of fun (new cafe every week) finally back at it and I feel happier.

Winter has been depressing and that could also be contributing to your energy levels.

Whilst your away... sleep. Sure do some activities and visit the sights but if you have the opportunity to just sleep... then go for it.

Bedroom wise you should really only have what you need to sleep and also keep it as tidy as possible, I'm a messy person, mostly cause I'm always running in and out of my house to go somewhere else, I have bags packed for certain things, I run in, I change and I'm out the door again and whilst I have everything I need, I've probably just dumped everything on a chair or on the floor. This isn't good for a peacful place to sleep. Your feet should face towards the door that you leave to walk out of in the morning as well, something to do with being ready to face the day, I'm not sure... an ex-boyfriend told me this and I've always stuck with it.

Lavender on pillows can help, bad day and your thinking too much about it go write it all down then pop into bed or set up a dream scenario for yourself as your getting ready for bed, think about what you would like to dream about. It could be anything.. I do it, I normally dream about baking and cottage gardens.

Routine is important, I start getting ready for bed at 9pm and I like to be in bed by 9:45pm, its not that I'm slow, its more that I dilly dally between different tasks.

Actually another thing that I think of, perhaps you need to be more positive? Sometimes you haev to talk yourself into being happier.
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Re: fatigue

Postby Utedog » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:27 am

Been putting in extra hrs in the bedroom? That'll do it! Lol
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Re: fatigue

Postby sogood » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:54 am

The Womble wrote:Sleep is a major factor. Being bi-polar...

Ok, that explains everything! 8)
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Re: fatigue

Postby jules21 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:59 pm

well, i just got back from the doctor and the verdict is in: vitamin D defficiency.

i'm a bit sus on that as the normal range is 60-160 and i'm 54, which doesn't seem that bad, but i'll soon find out when i head to thailand for some sun..

i also have high cholesterol (2.9 mmol/L when it should be < 2.0). i thought i ate pretty healthily, although i do gorge myself on biscuits..
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Re: fatigue

Postby trailgumby » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:12 pm

Would be worth picking up a copy of Joe Friel's The Cyclist's Training Bible as he covers fatigue and overtraining in some detail, which will arm you with the information you need to self manage and periodize your training load.

Might be worth PMing Alex Simmons and asking him for some reading suggestions as well.

Regarding the comments on intensity, while strictly speaking they are logical, if you ride every ride at recovery pace, they stop being recovery pace and become the new training pace as your fitness erodes to match the new intensity levels.

It's only by mixing up the intensity levels (in a planned way) that some rides become "recvoery pace" and easy, and others become "training pace" from whch you need to recover in order to lift capacity and build fitness. How you plan this mix is the basis of periodization.

I dismissed this "training stuff" as far too serious when I first started cycle commuting and ended up almost burying myself in overtraining induced fatigue. I've since found how important recovery is and that less can indeed be more.
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Re: fatigue

Postby lovemybike » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:22 pm

trailgumby wrote:I dismissed this "training stuff" as far too serious when I first started cycle commuting and ended up almost burying myself in overtraining induced fatigue. I've since found how important recovery is and that less can indeed be more.


Trailgumby gives good advice :) Enjoy Thailand Jules21...have a good rest :)
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