Iliotibial Band tight

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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby MichaelB » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:23 am

jules21 wrote:
scotto wrote:nice post. shame no one has a clue what youre on about. also, you left out phases of the moon and biorhythms...

+ 1

also you should check whether your chi is in balance :)


What about Feng Shui ?
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by BNA » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:27 am

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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby jules21 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:27 am

yeah good point, i've always wanted to learn a martial art :)
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby BruceGray » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:41 am

And I should have mentioned the systemic chronic low grade inflammation associated with visceral fat, high refined carb (esp gluten) intake; and low intake of anti-oxidants, bioflavinoids. phytochemicals, carotenoids, retinols, isoflavins, flavanols, and lycopene. In other words not enough fruit and vege.

All this stuff is what pro cycling teams take into account currently, in addition to the US NFL teams I've worked with, though I appreciate some would prefer this not trickle down.
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby sogood » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:08 am

BruceGray wrote:And I should have mentioned the systemic chronic low grade inflammation associated with visceral fat, high refined carb (esp gluten) intake; and low intake of anti-oxidants, bioflavinoids. phytochemicals, carotenoids, retinols, isoflavins, flavanols, and lycopene. In other words not enough fruit and vege.

All this stuff is what pro cycling teams take into account currently, in addition to the US NFL teams I've worked with, though I appreciate some would prefer this not trickle down.

Those medical/science jargons are great for presentations and debates in a professional conferences, and for bluffing one's abilities in front of lay people. But the art of a good clinician is the ability to communicate and translate that jargon bazaar into simple understandable language for the common men/women, and apply them in meaningful and practical terms to the clinical problem being presented. No amount of paid employment credential means anything if the patient at hand can not understand his/her problem and the suggested management solution. Things can be different in the veterinary fields though.
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby BruceGray » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:41 am

sogood wrote:Those medical/science jargons are great for presentations and debates in a professional conferences, and for bluffing one's abilities in front of lay people. But the art of a good clinician is the ability to communicate and translate that jargon bazaar into simple understandable language for the common men/women, and apply them in meaningful and practical terms to the clinical problem being presented. No amount of paid employment credential means anything if the patient at hand can not understand his/her problem and the suggested management solution. Things can be different in the veterinary fields though.


How about you ask the mods to change the title of the thread Sogood......Iliotibial Band has to be up there as jargon.

And it isn't very nice to imply I am bluffing anyone.....but all part of your prodding and poking MO yes?
To call someone out as a bluffer, you have to be well informed about that which you critique.
If you are informed about the subject Sogood, express your views, otherwise follow your own advice from several weeks ago, and don't stray outside your specialty.
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby scotto » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:44 pm

.
Last edited by scotto on Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby scotto » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:52 pm

BruceGray wrote:....I've been a physiotherapist in Brisbane, Australia for 10 years. Prior to this I worked in advertising..... I have a keen interest in communicating health information simply...

oh really ??? you cant have it both ways.


scotto wrote:
BruceGray wrote:..... In the age of google, it isn't hard to look up medical terms.

the defense rests....
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby sogood » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:43 pm

BruceGray wrote:How about you ask the mods to change the title of the thread Sogood......Iliotibial Band has to be up there as jargon.

There's no need to discuss a jargon by a list of jargons. That's circular. Even textbooks don't do that. Otherwise jargon lists easy to find and earns no value on a community forum, it's not a lecture to students. I understand this is a trait that has been complained about both here and on other forums.
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby BruceGray » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:01 pm

scotto wrote:oh really ??? you cant have it both ways.


Well we haven't heard either from Mr Pilates....... :roll:

scotto wrote:the defense rests....


Come on....how about your best Baulkham Hills layman's explanation for the sake of the thread....unless you need another 20 years in suburban general practice to refine it.
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby BruceGray » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:06 pm

sogood wrote:There's no need to discuss a jargon by a list of jargons. That's circular. Even textbooks don't do that. Otherwise jargon lists easy to find and earns no value on a community forum, it's not a lecture to students. I understand this is a trait that has been complained about both here and on other forums.


It's the 21st century Sogood.
Companies like Specialized and Nike have taken on the roll of health educators because health professionals with similar attitudes to yours are fearful their expertise is being genericized.

Varus wedges and metatarsal buttons (Specialized); and overpronation, heel stabilizer, knee valgus and varus (Nike) are things health pros would prefer to keep tightly bound up, rather then let escape into the layman's vernacular.

Many of the public learn more about macronutrient ratios and protein requirements from bodybuilder and women's magazines than from health professionals.

People come to forums like this to share info and hopefully learn, many of them I presume want to do it in a time efficient manner, and not stumble over 6.8 hollow quips per day to find something of substance. The threads on diet and weight control make it abundantly clear most forumites are genuinely hungry for quality discussion and clarity on the array of conflicting advice from health professionals and the media.

Sogood, instead of following me around from thread to thread, on a fishing trip, why not express something objective and of value in the many health threads you are posting in, including this one. You've said nothing regarding ITB yet. In fact, what brought you here?
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby sogood » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:33 pm

BruceGray wrote:
sogood wrote:There's no need to discuss a jargon by a list of jargons. That's circular. Even textbooks don't do that. Otherwise jargon lists easy to find and earns no value on a community forum, it's not a lecture to students. I understand this is a trait that has been complained about both here and on other forums.

It's the 21st century Sogood.
Companies like Specialized and Nike have taken on the roll of health educators because health professionals with similar attitudes to yours are fearful their expertise is being genericized...

That's technical marketing to establish their supposed credibility in the field. At the end of the day, their material are full of inadequately substantiated "science" in support of their marketing and money making objectives, not too different to many medical/health companies in their marketing campaigns. Well trained clinical professionals know not to swallow when presented. Yes, that's 21st century marketing. And if one subscribes to all that, then it really is... Amen!
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:13 pm

So is the reason I've never had an ITB injury because;
A. I stretch
B. I have a hot butt
C. zero degree float
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby BruceGray » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:59 pm

sogood wrote:At the end of the day, their material are full of inadequately substantiated "science" in support of their marketing and money making objectives, not too different to many medical/health companies in their marketing campaigns. Well trained clinical professionals know not to swallow when presented. Yes, that's 21st century marketing. And if one subscribes to all that, then it really is... Amen!


Really? does that apply to the latest technology in bike frames, gear ratios, derailleurs, crank lengths, pedals, bike shoes, tyres, tubes, saddles, nicks, electrolyte drinks, sports bars, helmets, bike lights? All just inadequately substantiated pseudo tech spin in your eyes? You'd prefer to run in sandshoes and ride a 1970s bike? That's quite an ignorant view on how advances in technology and sports science are made accessible to the recreational athlete.

Weren't you arguing a few weeks ago against the high cost and volume of health consults? KISS principle rulez?

What Specialized have done with their BG shoes is smart, and a lot cheaper than getting every cyclist with a sore foot to go get a 'well trained clinical professional' podiatrist running a for profit business, to whip up 3 pairs of $400 orthotics - one for the bike shoes, softies for the runners, and hardies for the work shoes.
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby sogood » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:11 pm

BruceGray wrote:Really? does that apply to the latest technology in bike frames, gear ratios, derailleurs, crank lengths, pedals, bike shoes, tyres, tubes, saddles, nicks, electrolyte drinks, sports bars, helmets, bike lights? All just inadequately substantiated pseudo tech spin in your eyes? You'd prefer to run in sandshoes and ride a 1970s bike? That's quite an ignorant view on how advances in technology and sports science are made accessible to the recreational athlete.

Weren't you arguing a few weeks ago against the high cost and volume of health consults? KISS principle rulez?

What Specialized have done with their BG shoes is smart, and a lot cheaper than getting every cyclist with a sore foot to go get a 'well trained clinical professional' podiatrist running a for profit business, to whip up 3 pairs of $400 orthotics - one for the bike shoes, softies for the runners, and hardies for the work shoes.

Ever heard of the New Bike Syndrome? :mrgreen:
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby Kalgrm » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:52 pm

Bruce,

SoGood is trying to get you to educate people without patronising them and spewing jargon. He's asking you to tailor your message to the audience. You're being jeered by other "contributors" because they don't respect your message: they don't understand what you're saying. It's not their fault, but yours. It's not their problem either.

We are laymen (for the most part), so if you must educate us, do it in our language.

Cheers,
Graeme
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:24 pm

BruceGray wrote:What Specialized have done with their BG shoes is smart, and a lot cheaper than getting every cyclist with a sore foot to go get a 'well trained clinical professional' podiatrist running a for profit business, to whip up 3 pairs of $400 orthotics - one for the bike shoes, softies for the runners, and hardies for the work shoes.


Are you recommending Specialized BG shoes for people with tight ITB's?
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby BruceGray » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:19 am

Kalgrm wrote:Bruce,

SoGood is trying to get you to educate people without patronising them and spewing jargon. He's asking you to tailor your message to the audience. You're being jeered by other "contributors" because they don't respect your message: they don't understand what you're saying. It's not their fault, but yours. It's not their problem either.

We are laymen (for the most part), so if you must educate us, do it in our language.

Cheers,
Graeme


Spewing? wow...objective moderation there Kal....and Mike in the cheer squad....hey why work alone when you can work in pairs hey?

I presume its jargon to you because you've never suffered from ITB issues and have therefore not taken an interest in it. Comedian who has had ITB found it useful... but Graeme must....remain.... loyal....to.....Mike's riding buddy Sogood...

And which of the jeering 'contributors' was the original poster, or even had ITB issues? oh that's right Jules, who used a bit of jargon himself, probably picked up from a physio - "scoliosis-induced ITB syndrome". Come on Scotto, what's the lay person's version of that?

But to be frank Graeme, I get enough lay discussion outside of this forum. Might be a nice time filler for the lonely and obsessive, and a bit of sport for the idol, bitter and twisted.....But work is winding up again for the year, and the commodities markets have got more interesting, so I'll climb out of your sandpit, and let you get on with creating your Lay forum, and BNA cap sale funded empire.

If anyone finds Sogood and Scotto aren't cutting the mustard, I can recommend Anouska's thread at the Road Grime forum.
http://www.roadgrime.com.au/forum
"Welcome to Cycling Related Injuries and Rehabilitation with Anouska"
On second thoughts don't bother. She uses jargon. :mrgreen: .

Safe riding y'all...and good luck with the BNA cap sales Kal. :mrgreen:
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby sogood » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:55 am

BruceGray wrote:But work is winding up again for the year, and the commodities markets have got more interesting...

Ok, so it's just about money.
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:13 am

Please use the post reporting function if you consider that posts are outside of forum rules
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby ozrider » Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:52 am

The whole thread has deteriorated into a slanging match, what a waste of time...
Some people are like Slinkies, they're really good for nothing..

..But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs!
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby Kalgrm » Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:12 pm

BruceGray wrote:... so I'll climb out of your sandpit, and let you get on with creating your Lay forum, and BNA cap sale funded empire.

No worries. Don't let the door slam your gluteus maximus on the way out.

Cheers,
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby Wayfarer » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:50 pm

BruceGray wrote:More often than not, ITB stretches don't work. Flavor of the month physio thought is that it is a weakness in gluteus medius, one of the butt muscles, and therapy prioritizes strengthening of that..

In my experience, it is rarely a glut med weakness or ITB tightness alone. It is a combination of several factors which will all be considered by a methodical physio familiar with cycling:

- anatomical or functional lower limb length difference.
- foot pronation -> tibial internal rotation, medial knee movement.
- medial deviation of sub talar joint axis -> medial knee movement.
- adaptive bone spurs or left/right congenital variation of the femur's lateral epicondyles +/- fibula head.
- descended and fixed fibula head.
- asymmetry in the recruitment, strength, length, and cross sectional area of vasti, especially vastus lateralis.
- biceps femoris length and recruitment variation.
- asymmetry in seated position on bike.
- asymmetry in knee extension force.
- asymmetry in saggital plane knee excursion for other reasons.
- poor hydration leads to increased friction of ITB on epicondyle.
- too rapid a progression in training volume +/- intensity.
- inadequate tissue repair due to medications, poor diet, hydration, or sleep.


Damn, we didnt need to all fight over this.. (Although I disagree; stretches work for most people)
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby eeksll » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:18 pm

I find massaging works well to alleviate the symptoms. Also something that works well for me, I use one of those cricket balls on a stick (used to knock in cricket bats), because there is a handle its much easier to place where you want it.

I have been to a physio who recommended me some strengthening exercises which have not seemed to help ... I was a little dubious about the diagnosis but was quite diligent initially with my exercises.
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby Isabella » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:43 am

Hmmm so are you guys done arguing ? Cause I have some major ITB issues going on and I'm struggling to sort it out and it's the most frustrating thing ever!

Started 4 weeks ago, and I started with the foam roller and stretches ... sort of helped.

Then I got a massage - which didn't help much.

Saw a podiatrist who did some needling cause there are knots in all the surrounding muscles in the leg, also got orthodics made which I've had for 2 weeks and haven't helped.

Have been having acupuncture twice a week for the last 2 weeks which doesn't seem to be working either.

The ITB is no longer tight but my quad, hip flexor (i think) and the inside muscle in that leg are very sore and have knots all through them. I have been barely on the bike in the last 4 weeks, had a go on Tuesday and it flared up and I was super weak on the bike. Have been swimming a bit but its not really the same. .

Any ideas?

Off for a deep tissue / trigger point release massage today which I hope will help :(
Last edited by Isabella on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Iliotibial Band tight

Postby jules21 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:58 pm

Isabella wrote:Hmmm so are you guys done arguing ? Cause I have some major ITB issues going on and I'm struggling to sort it out and it's the most frustrating thing ever!

no, sorry, you'll have to stand the pain a bit longer :)
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