The true cost of not being fit

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The true cost of not being fit

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:09 am

In the smoking thread, il padrone quoted Nicola Roxon stating that there is a $24billion short fall on the revenue from the cost of ciggies over what is raised in taxes

il padrone wrote:Nicola Roxon (Health Minister) on Q&A last night

The tax revenues fron the tax on tobacco are $6billion. The health costs associated with tobacco-caused diseases (and that's ignoring other social & economic costs) are $30billion.


I don't see where the savings are :?


So where else and how much of our tax dollars are being consumed by poor lifestyle decisions?
- seditary lifestyles
- poor food choices
- drugs
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by BNA » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:26 am

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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby Max » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:26 am

Alcohol abuse - including medical care for those injured as a result of drink driving.

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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby Rhubarb » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:42 am

It's impossible to quantify but I know I am more productive at work since getting fit through cycling to work everyday. I also feel substantially better about myself and am generally happier with my life.

There are so many benefits to bike commuting.

Perhaps nicola roxin needs to drop the carbon tax which targets a single issue and introduce a fat tax with bike commuter rebates. That would save the world, the environment, the health system (cardiac & mental), the economy, and the 2020 road cycling team talent pool.

This policy is not trade marked and is freely available for adoption by any political party :)

You know it makes sense ....
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby marinmomma » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:19 am

I doubt that anyone knows the true cost of our 'modern/western' diet and lifestyle to society....most people don't think about what they put into their bodies and how our food, in general, is lacking essential nutrients, how we are posioning our bodies with chemicals from our environment...cleaning products/plastics etc.

Add in the additional element of not keeping active and it's a disaster waiting to happen!
No wonder there is a generation who may not outlive their parents!

Our modern life could be to blame for the increase in disabilities, mental health conditions as well as physical health conditions.
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby Rhubarb » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:37 am

Max wrote:Alcohol abuse - including medical care for those injured as a result of drink driving.

Max


Wanna have a stab at the social cost of family and relationship breakdown caused by alcohol and other substance abuse???
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The true cost of not being fit

Postby herzog » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:40 am

If the shortfall is that great they should ban the bloody things outright.
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby Max » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:37 am

Rhubarb wrote:
Max wrote:Alcohol abuse - including medical care for those injured as a result of drink driving.

Max


Wanna have a stab at the social cost of family and relationship breakdown caused by alcohol and other substance abuse???


I don't even want to try. The thought of it is way too depressing. :cry:

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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby Sydguy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:50 am

Compulsory fat camps for the fatties, military style encampments where they smash you with PT all day every day until your down to size. Sick of huge people on the trains when I infrequently get them. Rushing on to take up 1.5 seats because they can't stand up for long. Or squeezing into the seat and basically sitting on your thigh...
Ban cigarettes there is no need for anyone to smoke, enforce said ban with randomly deployed snipers. "He was on the ground before we heard the shot" - "Snipers got talent" that ought to motivate people to kick the filthy habit.

Next is alcohol - we need a system that can track individuals who consume more than three standard drinks in a 24 hour period... Or ensure all alcoholic drinks have some added ingredient so that if enough is ingested you simply automatically throw up when anymore is consumed. Or elect to be a non drinker and pay a reduced rate of income tax, maybe report to the Police station and register 3 zero readings a week for your tax discount.

Now we just need to legislate for people to walk faster, use ATM's faster, have their train ticket ready when they get to the gate and not start digging in their handbag whilst blocking the gate... then have the nerve to complain when you kick them in the back of the head! Talk about wierdos.

Whats wrong with people! sheesh, 8)
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The true cost of not being fit

Postby Comedian » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:30 am

Since becoming "fit" through riding I feel more and more like the odd man out. Like you go to the school for a pickup or to the shops and I feel like the token fit guy. Oh well.

The problem is that since the advent of motorized personal transport our society has become geared to it. We have big roads for cars, and token biking infrastructure. We have hospitals sized for caring for the diseases and an industry devoted to helping you loose weight once you are on deaths door.

I mean i walk up the stairs at home carrying my daughter (roughly the same as the weight I've lost) and wonder how I even walked around. I see my same age obese neighbor has had a double hip replacement. Oh well.

Moat of the law and policy makers are obese or unfit so they control how things run.

All this is out of my control. All I can do is set a positive example for my kids.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:50 pm

Let's not forget these people too...
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...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby rkelsen » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:50 pm

Comedian wrote:All I can do is set a positive example for my kids.

8)
herzog wrote:If the shortfall is that great they should ban the bloody things outright.

Or at least make smokers pick up their own tab. Deny them Medicare.

$24 billion is far too much to allocate to this.
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby martin_12 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:13 pm

It may be that the lifetime medical costs of fit, healthy people (like cyclists) are higher that corresponding costs of smokers and overweight people.

Lifetime medical costs of obesity: prevention no cure for increasing health expenditure.
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby alf » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:22 pm

martin_12 wrote:It may be that the lifetime medical costs of fit, healthy people (like cyclists) are higher that corresponding costs of smokers and overweight people.

Lifetime medical costs of obesity: prevention no cure for increasing health expenditure.


That may very well be the case however you also should consider that during that longer life the fit / healthy person is also contributing in tax, gdp etc....
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby martin_12 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:33 pm

alf wrote:
martin_12 wrote:It may be that the lifetime medical costs of fit, healthy people (like cyclists) are higher that corresponding costs of smokers and overweight people.

Lifetime medical costs of obesity: prevention no cure for increasing health expenditure.


That may very well be the case however you also should consider that during that longer life the fit / healthy person is also contributing in tax, gdp etc....


Only until they retire. After they retire I guess it depends on whether they are self-finding and use private health care, or rely on state pensions and public health care. Many smokers and obese people die before retirement and probably cost the state a lot less.

The study I cited was a mathematical modelling study. Things might be different in the real world, but it is worth knowing that things are not always straightforward.
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby Eugene » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:42 pm

herzog wrote:If the shortfall is that great they should ban the bloody things outright.

I doubt any Gov would have the balls to do such a thing, I HATE cigs with a passion but there are clowns out there, who vote, that love them.

I think that they should have a few tighter restrictions on sales.

Like:

Not sold at Pubs or Clubs

No vending machines anywhere, ever.

Not sold in supermarkets, corner stores, news agents or servo's.

You must have a "Smoker’s Card" to buy them, this card will record how many you have bought, brands etc and give you a running total on the receipt of how much you have spent on them.

To have a smoker’s card, you must be over 18.

If you are caught giving smokes to an Underage person, you lose your "smokers card".

If you have a smoker’s card, you pay a higher Medicare levy; say an extra 5% across the board.

Smokes would also be in a max of 20 per pack and have a health levy at at $2 per cig, which goes to National Health. No discounts, any retailer selling individual cigs would lose their retail licence, forever.

Any person found selling illegal cigs or tobacco (chop chop) would be treated the same as a Narcotic drug dealer.

Just a few idea's I have.
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby sogood » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:14 pm

There are so many ways of calculating health costs, one that can be easily skewed either way. I wouldn't worry about it. What's more important is the factual relationship b/n smoking and certain diseases. Pay your taxes (income and cig) during working life and then die quickly at the end of working life is financially most beneficial for the society. ;)
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby Zynster » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:52 pm

I'm no fan of cigarettes either, but i wouldn't ban them. They have the best regulations of any drug. All drugs should be treated like nicotine. Especially alcohol, which I'd say has a lot more cost to society than nicotine. I'd also say that no amount of fitness will compensate for a bad diet.
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby wombatK » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:30 pm

mikesbytes wrote:So where else and how much of our tax dollars are being consumed by poor lifestyle decisions?
- seditary lifestyles
- poor food choices
- drugs

Motor vehicle driving is, per se, a poor lifestyle decision.

There is good evidence that the hidden costs of driving, namely the cost of trauma to injured people, are consuming our tax dollars. While motorists like to think they are paying their way, the reality is there is a huge shortfall when these hidden costs are accounted for.

The more we convert car journeys to bike journeys, the better off we will be.

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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby greyhoundtom » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Zynster wrote:I'm no fan of cigarettes either, but i wouldn't ban them. They have the best regulations of any drug. All drugs should be treated like nicotine. Especially alcohol, which I'd say has a lot more cost to society than nicotine. I'd also say that no amount of fitness will compensate for a bad diet.

+100
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby sogood » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:40 pm

wombatK wrote:The more we convert car journeys to bike journeys, the better off we will be.

So many damned cyclists are crashing their bikes and hurting various parts, inducing knees/ITB/neck problems, knocking over pedestrians... So let's all just walk and jog! :wink:
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby albe » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:23 am

greyhoundtom wrote:
Zynster wrote:I'm no fan of cigarettes either, but i wouldn't ban them. They have the best regulations of any drug. All drugs should be treated like nicotine. Especially alcohol, which I'd say has a lot more cost to society than nicotine. I'd also say that no amount of fitness will compensate for a bad diet.

+100


+1000

regulating all substances can see a harm minimisation and moderation approach become more the norm. As opposed to now, where abuse of some substances becomes ghettoised ... i saw this with a lot of people i grew up with.

For example, something like cannabis ... which scientifically speaking (check recent UK studies) is being shown to be more benign than alcohol ... can be used far more safely than now. You can never eradicate this stuff, prohibition is a multi-decade failure. Problem is, smoking of it is the norm rather than safer ways of consuming, like vapor and edibles (as is being seen increasingly in semi-legal places like Colorado and California).

Not to mention the taxation excise opportunities in regulating now illicit substances, the money saved in not prosecuting the futile prohibition approach ...
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby greyhoundtom » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:55 am

In Holland, which everyone raves about as being the cycling Mecca of the world, smoking Cannabis has been decriminalised, and on any videos I’ve seen none of the cyclists seem to be acting like dope heads.

Maybe that’s why cycling is much safer there, everyone is chilled out. :lol:
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby Ross » Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:22 pm

Sydguy wrote:Compulsory fat camps for the fatties, military style encampments where they smash you with PT all day every day until your down to size. Sick of huge people on the trains when I infrequently get them. Rushing on to take up 1.5 seats because they can't stand up for long. Or squeezing into the seat and basically sitting on your thigh...
Ban cigarettes there is no need for anyone to smoke, enforce said ban with randomly deployed snipers. "He was on the ground before we heard the shot" - "Snipers got talent" that ought to motivate people to kick the filthy habit.

Next is alcohol - we need a system that can track individuals who consume more than three standard drinks in a 24 hour period... Or ensure all alcoholic drinks have some added ingredient so that if enough is ingested you simply automatically throw up when anymore is consumed. Or elect to be a non drinker and pay a reduced rate of income tax, maybe report to the Police station and register 3 zero readings a week for your tax discount.

Now we just need to legislate for people to walk faster, use ATM's faster, have their train ticket ready when they get to the gate and not start digging in their handbag whilst blocking the gate... then have the nerve to complain when you kick them in the back of the head! Talk about wierdos.

Whats wrong with people! sheesh, 8)


Sydguy for PM! :mrgreen: I would vote for you for sure, better policies than any other political clown of recent times. :evil:
And Eugene can be Minister for Health!
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby Baldy » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:14 am

Ross wrote:
Sydguy wrote:Compulsory fat camps for the fatties, military style encampments where they smash you with PT all day every day until your down to size. Sick of huge people on the trains when I infrequently get them. Rushing on to take up 1.5 seats because they can't stand up for long. Or squeezing into the seat and basically sitting on your thigh...
Ban cigarettes there is no need for anyone to smoke, enforce said ban with randomly deployed snipers. "He was on the ground before we heard the shot" - "Snipers got talent" that ought to motivate people to kick the filthy habit.

Next is alcohol - we need a system that can track individuals who consume more than three standard drinks in a 24 hour period... Or ensure all alcoholic drinks have some added ingredient so that if enough is ingested you simply automatically throw up when anymore is consumed. Or elect to be a non drinker and pay a reduced rate of income tax, maybe report to the Police station and register 3 zero readings a week for your tax discount.

Now we just need to legislate for people to walk faster, use ATM's faster, have their train ticket ready when they get to the gate and not start digging in their handbag whilst blocking the gate... then have the nerve to complain when you kick them in the back of the head! Talk about wierdos.
Image
Whats wrong with people! sheesh, 8)


Sydguy for PM! :mrgreen: I would vote for you for sure, better policies than any other political clown of recent times. :evil:
And Eugene can be Minister for Health!
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Re: The true cost of not being fit

Postby Sydguy » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:40 am

I think Bob Katter has put himself up for election failure. He is too angry for people to support in decent numbers.
Fat camps exist in South Korea where kids are dropped off having been told its a summer camp. Watching the tears and cries as they work out where they are is a hoot. One thing I notice about Asia is they will tell you if your fat, the stigma attached to obesity acts to keep it uncommon. Rightly or wrongly.
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