Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

Sydguy wrote: One thing I notice about Asia is they will tell you if your fat, the stigma attached to obesity acts to keep it uncommon. Rightly or wrongly.

And rightly or wrongly other cultures have the exact opposite. Some polynesian communities, as an example. And you've only got to look at Renaissance painting or two to realise there has been an admiration of fat in western society too. Why else are so many Americans (and increasingly, Australians) fat ?

I do like your idea of fat camps - but let's not just limit it to kids. I'd especially make it compulsory for anyone with morbid obesity or obesity related disease before resorting to gastric surgery.

wombatK wrote:

Sydguy wrote: One thing I notice about Asia is they will tell you if your fat, the stigma attached to obesity acts to keep it uncommon. Rightly or wrongly.

And rightly or wrongly other cultures have the exact opposite. Some polynesian communities, as an example. And you've only got to look at Renaissance painting or two to realise there has been an admiration of fat in western society too. Why else are so many Americans (and increasingly, Australians) fat ?

I do like your idea of fat camps - but let's not just limit it to kids. I'd especially make it compulsory for anyone with morbid obesity or obesity related disease before resorting to gastric surgery.

It's the scarcity thing.

In Renaissance times, getting adequate nutrition was a problem. Being fat said you were rich and successful. These days, having enough time to exercise and get toned says you are rich and successful.

trailgumby wrote:

wombatK wrote:

Sydguy wrote: One thing I notice about Asia is they will tell you if your fat, the stigma attached to obesity acts to keep it uncommon. Rightly or wrongly.

And rightly or wrongly other cultures have the exact opposite. Some polynesian communities, as an example. And you've only got to look at Renaissance painting or two to realise there has been an admiration of fat in western society too. Why else are so many Americans (and increasingly, Australians) fat ?

I do like your idea of fat camps - but let's not just limit it to kids. I'd especially make it compulsory for anyone with morbid obesity or obesity related disease before resorting to gastric surgery.

It's the scarcity thing.

In Renaissance times, getting adequate nutrition was a problem. Being fat said you were rich and successful. These days, having enough time to exercise and get toned says you are rich and successful.

Natural selection I say,

Let the fatties be fat, let the smokers smoke, let the dumb ones drink themselves to death, just don't let them breed.

We need a way to stop the above from having children, also do away with warning labels and safety all stuff inc helmets, airbags, ABS brakes, seat belts etc etc , if your dumb enough to stick a knife in a toaster, there is a fair chance you are not smart enough get through life, so let nature take its coarse, the smart and strong survive and breed, the dumb and slow die. sounds fair to me.

Sydguy wrote:Sick of huge people on the trains when I infrequently get them. Rushing on to take up 1.5 seats because they can't stand up for long. Or squeezing into the seat and basically sitting on your thigh...

I'm no fatty but I take up 1.5 seats (my baggies take the remaining 0.5) because I hate people and sitting next to them and I like to make them as uncomfortable as possible.

Eugene wrote: We need a way to stop the above from having children, also do away with warning labels and safety all stuff inc helmets, airbags, ABS brakes, seat belts etc etc , if your dumb enough to stick a knife in a toaster, there is a fair chance you are not smart enough get through life, so let nature take its coarse, the smart and strong survive and breed, the dumb and slow die. sounds fair to me.

What about people who are not smart enough to spell or understand the meaning behind survival of the fittest?

/justsayin

simonn wrote:What about people who are not smart enough to spell or understand the meaning behind survival of the fittest?

Then they must be the most natural of all!

OK how much of my tax dollars is spent on hospitalizations directly caused by poor food choices and inactivity?

mikesbytes wrote:OK how much of my tax dollars is spent on hospitalizations directly caused by poor food choices and inactivity?

Life is a terminal disease.

Are you blokes for real, or am I missing the sarcasm emoticom?

mikesbytes wrote:OK how much of my tax dollars is spent on hospitalizations directly caused by poor food choices and inactivity?

My issue with many well intentioned socialist inspired initiatives is they don't know how to discriminate between what nature and nurture dispense.

In other words, where does personal responsibility begin and end, in complex societies where food security is outsourced, and probably a whole lot of other stuff, like trusting that the bicycle frame you are sitting on is engineered within safe tolerances.

Redbull wrote:Are you blokes for real, or am I missing the sarcasm emoticom?

I think there may be a bit of an each way bet, I know its "wrong" to think like that, but cant help but think it may be a better world if it happened, I would more than likely be cannon fodder, but who knows.

This thread started out with smoking and turned to being fat . however relating to fitness is a good subject . i think not being fit definately shortens quality of life and longevity . i also think now mental health is also important and not 100 % directly related to fitness . i think money will become a real contributor to ill health in the near future ( maybe as much as smoking and alcohol and drugs ) the worst part being , its easy to address and give up smoking /alcohol and drugs if you really really want to chase fitness , money on the other hand isnt a choice where you can just get more in order not to struggle through life . i think money will oertake these other things and destroy health and fitness , along with these other things .
as far as i'm concerned in my 2nd half of life i intend to work harder at being fit , than i did in my 1st , and i hope it increases my long term out look , i feel very ounfit if i am just 10kgs over weight , i dont understand how fat people can even breathe .

I'm not trying to attribute blame to those who have made poor lifestyle choices, there are many reasons for this and advertising plays a part of that.

The question is, what is our tax dollars being used for and what can be done to reduce that cost

mikesbytes wrote:OK how much of my tax dollars is spent on hospitalizations directly caused by poor food choices and inactivity?

How much of my tax dollars is spent on hospitalisations of cyclists falling off their bikes?

tv and computer games
sure they are fun on occasion but when a mate plans on playing computer games all weekends ... you wonder how healthy he is

mikesbytes wrote:The question is, what is our tax dollars being used for and what can be done to reduce that cost

Eliminate all retired elderly in the society and health cost will come down in a big way. Of course, that's completely unacceptable in a healthy society.

Simply stop treating the illnesses that are self inflicted.

Such as:
Lung cancer for those that smoked both cigarettes and/or marijuana.
Skin cancer because they did not protect their skin appropriately.
Diabetes due to obesity.
In fact all illnesses directly due to obesity.
Vascular or heart problems due to obesity or smoking tobacco.
Liver damage and liver cancer due to excessive alcohol consumption.
Kidney damage due to drug use.
In fact all illnesses caused by use of illegal drugs, including mental illness caused by drug use.
Injuries caused by car crashes if excessive speed, alcohol or drug use contributed to the crash.
Brain damage if the sufferer regardless of how it was caused was not wearing a helmet.

Mmmm I’m sure you guys could come up with a few more SELF INFLICTED illnesses and injuries that do not deserve being treated in our overcrowded and expensive health system.

It could be hard to prove that those illnesses were directly caused from smoking/obesity etc. It may just be in that person's genes. For example my father died of a heart attack, he would walk 10km a day and swim laps of the local pool as well. He had Cancer before that but had chemo and got over it (or was in remission). My mother died of Cancer, it started in her lungs and spread to other parts of her body. She was a smoker. I don't smoke, ride my bike hundreds of km each week but chances are I will die of heart attack or Cancer.

greyhoundtom wrote:Simply stop treating the illnesses that are self inflicted.
Such as:...

Problem is, one can't be 100% sure of the causal attribution for any particular patient. Certain actions will increase the probability, but typically it's not 100% chance.

maybe we need to start to set the medicare levy at bmi rather than income . . .

just a thought

glenn

Eugene wrote:Natural selection I say,

Let the fatties be fat, let the smokers smoke, let the dumb ones drink themselves to death, just don't let them breed.

We need a way to stop the above from having children, also do away with warning labels and safety all stuff inc helmets, airbags, ABS brakes, seat belts etc etc , if your dumb enough to stick a knife in a toaster, there is a fair chance you are not smart enough get through life, so let nature take its coarse, the smart and strong survive and breed, the dumb and slow die. sounds fair to me.

The trouble is, if you are going to follow that paradigm, the consequences don't come home to roost until well after breeding age.

What I'd like to know is how we can make the above apply to people with such poor communication skills that they don't understand the difference between "your" and "you're", "course" or "coarse", or how to use capital letters at the start of sentences and full stops at the end.

Care to volunteer, Eugene? We could name a whole branch of science after you. How does "Eugenics" sound?

Oh, wait...

trailgumby wrote:Oh, wait...

Brilliant!

greyhoundtom wrote:Simply stop treating the illnesses that are self inflicted.

Such as:
Lung cancer for those that smoked both cigarettes and/or marijuana.
Skin cancer because they did not protect their skin appropriately.
Diabetes due to obesity.
In fact all illnesses directly due to obesity.
Vascular or heart problems due to obesity or smoking tobacco.
Liver damage and liver cancer due to excessive alcohol consumption.
Kidney damage due to drug use.
In fact all illnesses caused by use of illegal drugs, including mental illness caused by drug use.
Injuries caused by car crashes if excessive speed, alcohol or drug use contributed to the crash.
Brain damage if the sufferer regardless of how it was caused was not wearing a helmet.

Mmmm I’m sure you guys could come up with a few more SELF INFLICTED illnesses and injuries that do not deserve being treated in our overcrowded and expensive health system.

Also don't treat anyone with a genetic disposition to any disease or illness. How thoughtless not to choose your ancestors more carefully.