Cyclists, protect your skin!

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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby cavebear2 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:09 am

Recently I had a blood test that revealed that everything was good except for a vitamin D deficiency: 44 against 75 to 250 ideal range.
Now..... considering that I'm an endurance cyclist who rides for a minimum of 7 hours during daylight hours in all seasons this may seem a little strange...until you consider that I use arm warmers or coolers (and sometimes leg coolers on hot days) Also most of my training rides are in darkness after work hours.

I'll be modifying my behaviour to increase my exposure to the sun by using sunscreen a bit more rather than the 99% blockout of arm and leg protectors. Also I'll keep the arm coolers down at my wrists up until the high UV time of day starts.
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by BNA » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:26 am

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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby Oxford » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:26 am

well this thread jinxed me, had my usual annual checkup and a BCC was found. have now had it removed. was in a crappy place on the back of my calf muscle where the skin was already tight. as I said to my wife, I'm having nip and tuck gradually so by the time I hit my 60's, with all the small excisions I have, my skin will still be tight and young looking. :mrgreen:
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby DaveOZ » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:55 am

I bought one of these because my bald patch was getting burnt through my helmet. :oops:

http://www.assos.com.au/index.php?main_ ... ts_id=7303

This is the single best piece of cycling clothing I have bought yet. Apart from keeping the sun away, it just stops any sweat from running into my eyes and down my glasses. It's very small and very thin, you don't even notice it's one. I wear it all the time now.
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby trailgumby » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:05 am

I have a black Peaerl Izumi one for winter use that goes over my ears as well, great for keeping my noggin warm but puts a noticeable elastic mark across my forehead just below where my hair used to be. Not a good look in the office :oops: :lol:

Fortunately I still have a good head of hair, so no issue there (yet) but as I may already have mentioned my arms get itchy and irritated these days in the sun so am looking for long-sleeve jerseys for summer.
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby Schmenz » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:29 am

Vit d deficiency has been linked to melanoma itself, as well as increasing your chances of mets by 98% if you have previously had breast cancer.

Slip slop slap has almost been too successful as there are really high rates of vit d deficiency in aus. Even things like ricketts are starting to come back.

Sun exposure is good. Get out there, but dont burn. Burning is what does the damage. Building a slow gradual tan is ok and the best way to build d. Or just take the drops/tabs
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby Schmenz » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:36 am

Also, migraine suffers with the mthfr allele cannot adequately convert vitamin d so will have low levels and need supplementation. If you get migraines you can get this gene test done. If you have this gene there are all sorts of health implications including and highly increased incidence of stroke (3x from memory) and cealiac (with symptoms or without - which has it's own bowel cancer implications)

(if you get migraines it is highly likely you have this gene - but it's more important to know whether you are homozygous or heterozygous)
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby sogood » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:32 am

DaveOZ wrote:I bought one of these because my bald patch was getting burnt through my helmet. :oops:
http://www.assos.com.au/index.php?main_ ... ts_id=7303

Bandana is definitely the way to go to keep you cool on a hot day and to protect. But I suspect the Halo model will be a bit cheaper than Assos.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Halo-HALO-PR ... 3cbdcc246c
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby Euan » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:27 pm

Ground Effect Rock Lobster, great bit of kit for summer riding. Long sleeved, high collar.

Under the helmet I've found a buff very useful, keeps the rays off the head and the sweat out of my eyes.

I got a little bottle of sunscreen from the Anti Cancer people that's on a clip, I keep it on my bag. The only down side is the many well meaning people who think it might be falling out of my bag, means I'm never without my sunscreen though.
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby SeditionTrial » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:35 pm

Schmenz wrote: Vit d deficiency has been linked to melanoma itself, as well as increasing your chances of mets by 98% if you have previously had breast cancer.


What is your source for this quote? These are not "facts" I am aware of (and I am professionally [medically] trained in this area). Risk of melanoma is related to race (eg greatest in Caucasians) and UV exposure (sun, tanning beds). There are rare familial cases. Risk of metastasis in breast cancer is closely related to the tumour size, grade and histologic type. There are new claims that genotyping of the breast cancer can accurately predict risk of metastasis, but this has not been proved superior to traditional analysis of the tumour (histopathology). The 98% figure you quote would in any case meaningless without further data (such as relative risk vs absolute risk, all stages vs advanced stages).

Schmenz wrote: Slip slop slap has almost been too successful as there are really high rates of vit d deficiency in aus. Even things like ricketts are starting to come back.


Again, your source? My post (see above) which stated that Vit D is not much of a problem in Australia except for a few special groups, broadly agrees with the Australian Cancer Council's recommendations as published on their website:

http://www.cancer.org.au/cancersmartlifestyle/SunSmart/VitaminD.htm

Schmenz wrote: Sun exposure is good. Get out there, but dont burn. Burning is what does the damage. Building a slow gradual tan is ok and the best way to build d. Or just take the drops/tabs


As far as I am aware, there is no such thing as a safe tan. UV damage is what induces tanning, and this is also what causes skin cancer. This is in agreement with the Australian Cancer Council's position (which to my knowledge is based on published scientific evidence):

http://www.cancer.org.au/cancersmartlifestyle/SunSmart/Whatputsyouatrisk.htm

You are welcome to your opinions. The above are my opinions (and a few pieces of supporting literature).
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby sogood » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:45 pm

SeditionTrial wrote:As far as I am aware, there is no such thing as a safe tan. UV damage is what induces tanning, and this is also what causes skin cancer.

Tanning works through the activation of melanocytes and is a perfectly normal body function in response to exposure. It's a continuous progression without clear demarcation b/n untanned and tanned. Without sun exposure, the effect of Vit D deficiency can be just as fatal. So as all things in life, moderation is the word.
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby cavebear2 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:08 am

For all the people who may not realise they've gone too far the other way, probably because of medical hype, just a quick recap, just in case you didn't get the significance of my post.....

cavebear2 wrote:Recently I had a blood test that revealed that everything was good except for a vitamin D deficiency: 44 against 75 to 250 ideal range.
Now..... considering that I'm an endurance cyclist who rides for a minimum of 7 hours during daylight hours in all seasons this may seem a little strange...until you consider that I use arm warmers or coolers (and sometimes leg coolers on hot days) Also most of my training rides are in darkness after work hours.

I'll be modifying my behaviour to increase my exposure to the sun by using sunscreen a bit more rather than the 99% blockout of arm and leg protectors. Also I'll keep the arm coolers down at my wrists up until the high UV time of day starts.
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby Schmenz » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:48 am

SeditionTrial wrote:
Schmenz wrote: Vit d deficiency has been linked to melanoma itself, as well as increasing your chances of mets by 98% if you have previously had breast cancer.


What is your source for this quote? These are not "facts" I am aware of (and I am professionally [medically] trained in this area). Risk of melanoma is related to race (eg greatest in Caucasians) and UV exposure (sun, tanning beds). There are rare familial cases. Risk of metastasis in breast cancer is closely related to the tumour size, grade and histologic type. There are new claims that genotyping of the breast cancer can accurately predict risk of metastasis, but this has not been proved superior to traditional analysis of the tumour (histopathology). The 98% figure you quote would in any case meaningless without further data (such as relative risk vs absolute risk, all stages vs advanced stages).

Schmenz wrote: Slip slop slap has almost been too successful as there are really high rates of vit d deficiency in aus. Even things like ricketts are starting to come back.


Again, your source? My post (see above) which stated that Vit D is not much of a problem in Australia except for a few special groups, broadly agrees with the Australian Cancer Council's recommendations as published on their website:

http://www.cancer.org.au/cancersmartlifestyle/SunSmart/VitaminD.htm

Schmenz wrote: Sun exposure is good. Get out there, but dont burn. Burning is what does the damage. Building a slow gradual tan is ok and the best way to build d. Or just take the drops/tabs


As far as I am aware, there is no such thing as a safe tan. UV damage is what induces tanning, and this is also what causes skin cancer. This is in agreement with the Australian Cancer Council's position (which to my knowledge is based on published scientific evidence):

http://www.cancer.org.au/cancersmartlifestyle/SunSmart/Whatputsyouatrisk.htm

You are welcome to your opinions. The above are my opinions (and a few pieces of supporting literature).


No worries at all. I have references but am obtaining the actual papers for you.

But I did also make an error. it was 90% more likely not 98% (sorry was posting from the top of my head).

I would also disagree with you about vit D deficiency being rare in Aus. I see several patients with it, and I myself was tested and had only 28 (from memory.. might have been 30 but it was still very low) when it should be 140.

The deficiency has also been linked to latitude.
(and am getting you the paper for this as well).
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby MichaelB » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:54 am

sogood wrote:
DaveOZ wrote:I bought one of these because my bald patch was getting burnt through my helmet. :oops:
http://www.assos.com.au/index.php?main_ ... ts_id=7303

Bandana is definitely the way to go to keep you cool on a hot day and to protect. But I suspect the Halo model will be a bit cheaper than Assos.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Halo-HALO-PR ... 3cbdcc246c


I'll put a vote in for the Halo one - works a treat and got it from the LBS cheaper than the eBay one, especially when you inlcude the postage $29 alone !!!
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby Schmenz » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:57 pm

anyone who wants references - just shoot me a PM with your email address
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby hannos » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:26 am

biftek wrote:
Rambo wrote: Happier to pop a tablet, and protect my skin.


that's half the problem society faces , turnining to supplements and that magic pill to cure our problems , nothing like the natural thing



Except for those that, regardless of the amount of sunlgiht they receive, are still Vit. D deficient. (my missus)
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby Oxford » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:39 am

hannos wrote:
biftek wrote:
Rambo wrote: Happier to pop a tablet, and protect my skin.


that's half the problem society faces , turnining to supplements and that magic pill to cure our problems , nothing like the natural thing



Except for those that, regardless of the amount of sunlgiht they receive, are still Vit. D deficient. (my missus)

yep my missus too.
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby SeditionTrial » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:10 pm

Sunlight is enjoyable, and has medicinal properties including vitamin D production, treatment of seasonal affective disorder and some skin rashes. And yes, it is ultimately responsible for almost all life on earth.

However it is also responsible for 90 to 95% of all skin cancers in Australia, where melanoma is the leading cause of "years of life lost" out of all cancers (ie it wipes out a lot of young healthy people, as well as those who are already sick and/or old).

I encourage all those who think that vitamin D deficiency is more of a concern than melanoma and other skin cancers in Australia to read those links I posted above. If you are vitamin D deficient, the advice given by the cancer council is not to avoid the sun altogether (unless you have a strong personal or family history of skin cancer, or other strong risk factors such as previous organ transplant / immunosuppression) but rather to limit your exposure to "off-peak" times. These vary by latitude, and there are handy tables given in some of the linked documents on the cancer council website.

If you think that a tan can be built healthily, as part of a healthy lifestyle, that's great for you: that's your opinion. My opinion is different: I think for many Caucasians this is not the case: although tanning of the skin is a "natural" (ie physiologic) response to the sun, this does not mean it is either good for you or an effective skin protection. The cancer council estimates the protective effect of a tan as equivalent to SPF4 sun screen. The same UV light which tells your skin cells to start pumping out melanin is also inducing random mutations in your skin cells' DNA. Enough cumulative mutations, or an unlucky single mutation of a vital gene and your skin cells will proliferate unchecked, and the result is a skin cancer. I base my opinion on my reading of scientific literature and reviews of this literature: you can follow it back through those links if you want. If you have different information (ie references, not the whole PDF) and you want to PM it to me, that's also fine - I'm always willing to give new information a look.

I won't be posting to this topic again unless I have something new or useful to add.

If you think this is a vast medical conspiracy, I have this great website I can post you about chem-trails, fluoride, the Illuminati, and the power of the time cube.
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby Comedian » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:33 am

SeditionTrial wrote:Sunlight is enjoyable, and has medicinal properties including vitamin D production, treatment of seasonal affective disorder and some skin rashes. And yes, it is ultimately responsible for almost all life on earth.

However it is also responsible for 90 to 95% of all skin cancers in Australia, where melanoma is the leading cause of "years of life lost" out of all cancers (ie it wipes out a lot of young healthy people, as well as those who are already sick and/or old).

I encourage all those who think that vitamin D deficiency is more of a concern than melanoma and other skin cancers in Australia to read those links I posted above. If you are vitamin D deficient, the advice given by the cancer council is not to avoid the sun altogether (unless you have a strong personal or family history of skin cancer, or other strong risk factors such as previous organ transplant / immunosuppression) but rather to limit your exposure to "off-peak" times. These vary by latitude, and there are handy tables given in some of the linked documents on the cancer council website.

If you think that a tan can be built healthily, as part of a healthy lifestyle, that's great for you: that's your opinion. My opinion is different: I think for many Caucasians this is not the case: although tanning of the skin is a "natural" (ie physiologic) response to the sun, this does not mean it is either good for you or an effective skin protection. The cancer council estimates the protective effect of a tan as equivalent to SPF4 sun screen. The same UV light which tells your skin cells to start pumping out melanin is also inducing random mutations in your skin cells' DNA. Enough cumulative mutations, or an unlucky single mutation of a vital gene and your skin cells will proliferate unchecked, and the result is a skin cancer. I base my opinion on my reading of scientific literature and reviews of this literature: you can follow it back through those links if you want. If you have different information (ie references, not the whole PDF) and you want to PM it to me, that's also fine - I'm always willing to give new information a look.

I won't be posting to this topic again unless I have something new or useful to add.

If you think this is a vast medical conspiracy, I have this great website I can post you about chem-trails, fluoride, the Illuminati, and the power of the time cube.

Well for what it's worth my wife has had melanoma, and gets frequent low grade skin cancers. She is vitamin D deficient. The doctor just told her to take a supplement and stay out of the sun. :o
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby Schmenz » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:22 am

oh and please dont take my comments about tanning out of perspective. i did not realise this thread would become the medical based thread it has so i didnt elaborate.

tanning itself is not good. but the incidental slight colour changes you can get from a little bit of everyday sun exposure is what i was talking about. and i was referring to the cancer councils guidelines of the 10-15 mins of sun exposure in non peak times. and for the record i do not see a tan as protective at all.
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Re: Cyclists, protect your skin!

Postby winstonw » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:13 pm

I recently heard the lower limit of normal range serum 25 hydroxy vitamin D has been raised significantly, and this has resulted in very high levels of Vit D deficiency being diagnosed in Australia.
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