Truth on diet and weight control

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Truth on diet and weight control

Postby sogood » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:30 am

PawPaw wrote:... Gee, if you guys can't see a scientifically illiterate dill of a journo's lazy attempt at sensationalizing and misrepresenting the truth...

Nope. But I see twist and turns in the readership.
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by BNA » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:51 am

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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby PawPaw » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:51 am

sogood wrote:
PawPaw wrote:... Gee, if you guys can't see a scientifically illiterate dill of a journo's lazy attempt at sensationalizing and misrepresenting the truth...

Nope. But I see twist and turns in the readership.


The twist and turns are all the author's. Why else would he be so intellectually and professionally slothful to use ONE case study that contradicts the message of the article he built the story on?

- The Mayo Clinic says a diet (with exercise) is what works.

- The case study says diets have never worked and weren't required to get 40kg off.
- The headline's byline sensationally proclaims something else apart from diet works.

The fudging couldn't be more obvious to anyone with enough self insight to read the article objectively and impartially, and not make it fit their preconceptions.
A journalist, especially for the SMH, is supposed to be a master communicator to a broad audience.
Simply, this article is not master communication. But if you can interpret it in a manner to make it fit with your preconceptions, good for you.

The Mr Evans of the world have just been reinforced in believing a Calorie restricted 'diet' is not required.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby wombatK » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:17 am

PawPaw wrote:The Mr Evans of the world have just been reinforced in believing a Calorie restricted 'diet' is not required.

A newspaper is not a scholarly journal, although the article has made clear reference to the scholarly research should
anyone be interested in pursuing it. Maybe your standard could not be met by anything less than studying
dietetics for the full 4 years at uni.

FWIW, A few years back, I slowly shed 25 kg like Mr Evans and have kept it off. I did not follow any "Calorie restricted diet",
and never felt like I was dieting. Even today, I could not tell you how many calories per day I eat - except it's
demonstrably "enough". Like Mr Evans, however, I did make significant gradual dietary changes - based on advice and ideas
I picked up as one of my daughters studied dietetics.

So Mr Evans is not alone in loosing weight without a quick fix calorie-restricted "diet". This does not mean that we
weren't eating less calories - just that we did it in a way that wasn't noticeable and was sustainable in the long term.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby PawPaw » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:06 am

wombatK wrote:FWIW, A few years back, ........


ah ha.....it is you with the restricted definition of 'diet'!!!

Ask your daughter what a "prescriptive" diet is, then ask her what the Mayo Clinic are referring to when they use the term diet.
Then write to SMH author and clarify for him.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby wombatK » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:36 am

PawPaw wrote:
wombatK wrote:FWIW, A few years back, ........


ah ha.....it is you with the restricted definition of 'diet'!!!

Ask your daughter what a "prescriptive" diet is, then ask her what the Mayo Clinic are referring to when they use the term diet.
Then write to SMH author and clarify for him.

I feel no need at all to clarify anything for the SMH author. His article is perfectly clear, reasonable,
and demonstrates a reasonable understanding of the professional scientific body of knowledge.
I have no difficulty making intelligent interpretations of the various contexts in which the article
and I have used the word diet, nor of the word prescriptive.

If you have a problem with the article's author (for example, because it offends a faith you have in
quick-fix diets, or diet shakes etc.,.), then take your own medicine and write to him.

All your criticism has been negative, and is getting increasingly gratuitous. I give up, but
won't be surprised if you don't.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby BarryTas » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:00 pm

Is it simply (thus too simple) a COMBINATION of:

Regular and some what challenging exercise

And

Diet – what you do and don’t eat………..
…….nutritious meals 1/3 veg, 1/3 protein and 1/3 carbs,
…….portions and meal amounts depends on your needs ie weigh lost diet v endurance diet
………ie don’t eat ^%%^^% food……….

I find the super market funny. I see the fruit and veg section as “all you can eat”, the meat section as “strong man”, pasta/other good carbs as “fuel” and them there are WHOLE other isles you just don’t go near ie, chocolate, chips, soft drink, deserts, biscuts………..these are not “food” people!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me where in the world these things grow!!!!!!!!!!
when do we stop for coffee???

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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby PawPaw » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:17 pm

wombatK wrote:All your criticism has been negative, and is getting increasingly gratuitous. I give up, but
won't be surprised if you don't.


Wombat, I agree with what the Mayo Clinic says. It is pathetic that the Mr Evans of the world don't.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby KonaCommuter » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:36 pm

BarryTas wrote:I find the super market funny. I see the fruit and veg section as “all you can eat”, the meat section as “strong man”, pasta/other good carbs as “fuel” and them there are WHOLE other isles you just don’t go near ie, chocolate, chips, soft drink, deserts, biscuts………..these are not “food” people!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me where in the world these things grow!!!!!!!!!!



I like it 8)
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby iMad » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:57 pm

BarryTas wrote:I find the super market funny. I see the fruit and veg section as “all you can eat”, the meat section as “strong man”, pasta/other good carbs as “fuel” and them there are WHOLE other isles you just don’t go near ie, chocolate, chips, soft drink, deserts, biscuts………..these are not “food” people!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me where in the world these things grow!!!!!!!!!!


Oh God... you mean... you mean I'll have to stop having my two Scotch Finger biscuits with my cup of tea at night? :?
Aggghhhhhhhh!
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby Addictr3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:22 pm

iMad wrote:
BarryTas wrote:I find the super market funny. I see the fruit and veg section as “all you can eat”, the meat section as “strong man”, pasta/other good carbs as “fuel” and them there are WHOLE other isles you just don’t go near ie, chocolate, chips, soft drink, deserts, biscuts………..these are not “food” people!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me where in the world these things grow!!!!!!!!!!


Oh God... you mean... you mean I'll have to stop having my two Scotch Finger biscuits with my cup of tea at night? :?
Aggghhhhhhhh!


Depends, I hear if you eat those carbs before 7:59pm it could possibly not be stored as fat :P
If you can't explain it simply, then you don't understand it well enough.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby iMad » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:46 pm

Addictr3 wrote:
iMad wrote:
BarryTas wrote:I find the super market funny. I see the fruit and veg section as “all you can eat”, the meat section as “strong man”, pasta/other good carbs as “fuel” and them there are WHOLE other isles you just don’t go near ie, chocolate, chips, soft drink, deserts, biscuts………..these are not “food” people!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me where in the world these things grow!!!!!!!!!!


Oh God... you mean... you mean I'll have to stop having my two Scotch Finger biscuits with my cup of tea at night? :?
Aggghhhhhhhh!


Depends, I hear if you eat those carbs before 7:59pm it could possibly not be stored as fat :P


That's great news because I always finish by 7:58pm.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby iMad » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:01 pm

The news keeps getting worse for weight loss it seems.
All of you happy dieters out there might benefit from buying the Weekend Australian (Magazine) dated 4th February 2012.
On page 12 of the magazine there's an interesting article entitled...
"WHY DO DIETERS WHO SHED WEIGHT TEND TO STACK IT ALL BACK ON AGAIN? SCIENCE HAS SOME DISTURBING ANSWERS."
I've lost almost 20kg so far in a tad over 3 months. I'm also cycling regularly now which helps. This however isn't the first time I've managed to shed quite a bit of weight and just as the headline of the article implies, I've always managed to stack it back on over a year or two. Depressing really, but I knew that "This time it was going to be different."
Well, the article suggests the odds are really stacked against us for a variety of reasons... physiologically, genetically and psychologically.
I suggest it's essential reading for anyone seriously trying to get themselves to a healthy weight and keep it there. Obviously it IS possible but it's better to be armed with all the difficulties.
I still reckon that "This time it will be different." but I'm better informed now and prepared for a real challenge.
Cheers guys
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby roobab » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:23 am

To me that article is a bit wishy washy and affords fat people an easy cop out.
Can someone tell me why obesity is a much bigger problem in Aus/US compared to Europe?
Does genetics cause changes in one generation?
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby Parker » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:59 am

"WHY DO DIETERS WHO SHED WEIGHT TEND TO STACK IT ALL BACK ON AGAIN? SCIENCE HAS SOME DISTURBING ANSWERS."

I saw this article and I heard about it through my mother, it really isn't as interesting as people make it out to be... why? Oh yeah, because people are dieting for 3 months and expecting it to solve their weight problems, they use shakes and meal replacement and things that aren't achievable.

These things typically don't teach you how to understand what is good food and what isn't, they don't teach you about calories or nutrients.

It's a lifestyle change, you need to eat healthy for life, not for three months.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby iMad » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:32 am

Parker wrote:"WHY DO DIETERS WHO SHED WEIGHT TEND TO STACK IT ALL BACK ON AGAIN? SCIENCE HAS SOME DISTURBING ANSWERS."

I saw this article and I heard about it through my mother, it really isn't as interesting as people make it out to be... why? Oh yeah, because people are dieting for 3 months and expecting it to solve their weight problems, they use shakes and meal replacement and things that aren't achievable.

These things typically don't teach you how to understand what is good food and what isn't, they don't teach you about calories or nutrients.

It's a lifestyle change, you need to eat healthy for life, not for three months.

Perhaps...But according to the research that was done on this, it's not ONLY about lifestyle change and eating habits.

For instance... They pointed out that an (say) 80kg person might be able to maintain their 80kg body weight with (say) 8000 Kilo-joules per day.

Then take a second person that reduces their weight from 110kg to 80kg.
Researchers found that this person, having reduced their weight to achieve the 80kg body weight, has to consume considerably less Kilo-joules per day to maintain that same weight.
The physiology of the person, having dieted, changes to a state where it actually tries to put the weight back on.
The net result is that the dieter will need a significant reduction in energy intake to maintain the same weight as a person that hasn't shed weight.

Weird science... huh?
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby Addictr3 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:56 am

iMad wrote:
Parker wrote:"WHY DO DIETERS WHO SHED WEIGHT TEND TO STACK IT ALL BACK ON AGAIN? SCIENCE HAS SOME DISTURBING ANSWERS."

I saw this article and I heard about it through my mother, it really isn't as interesting as people make it out to be... why? Oh yeah, because people are dieting for 3 months and expecting it to solve their weight problems, they use shakes and meal replacement and things that aren't achievable.

These things typically don't teach you how to understand what is good food and what isn't, they don't teach you about calories or nutrients.

It's a lifestyle change, you need to eat healthy for life, not for three months.

Perhaps...But according to the research that was done on this, it's not ONLY about lifestyle change and eating habits.

For instance... They pointed out that an (say) 80kg person might be able to maintain their 80kg body weight with (say) 8000 Kilo-joules per day.

Then take a second person that reduces their weight from 110kg to 80kg.
Researchers found that this person, having reduced their weight to achieve the 80kg body weight, has to consume considerably less Kilo-joules per day to maintain that same weight.
The physiology of the person, having dieted, changes to a state where it actually tries to put the weight back on.
The net result is that the dieter will need a significant reduction in energy intake to maintain the same weight as a person that hasn't shed weight.

Weird science... huh?


Weight isnt all that factors in Cals per day lol go read up on BMR.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby iMad » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:55 pm

Addictr3 wrote:Weight isnt all that factors in Cals per day lol go read up on BMR.

I think that's (sort of) the point they were trying to make. Dieting alters one's BMR among other changes as the body attempts to regain the weight it's lost.
It just makes the maintenance of a desired weight that much more difficult after dieting it seems. Not impossible... more difficult.
The whole point of the article is to (partly) explain why most dieters put all the weight they've just lost back on over time.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby sogood » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:41 pm

Malcolm Turnbull did it the no frill way, 14kg down.
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet-an ... 1rcbo.html
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby DaveOZ » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:50 pm

I've lost 8kg in 6 months by eating less, drinking not much and riding lots. It's easy really. :P
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby iMad » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:51 pm

sogood wrote:Malcolm Turnbull did it the no frill way, 14kg down.
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet-an ... 1rcbo.html

It'll be interesting to see if he keeps it off. :)
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby iMad » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:53 pm

DaveOZ wrote:I've lost 8kg in 6 months by eating less, drinking not much and riding lots. It's easy really. :P

Devil's Advocate alert.... But will you be able to continue like that indefinitely?
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby sogood » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:55 pm

iMad wrote:It'll be interesting to see if he keeps it off. :)

14kg in 1 month is pretty massive drop in that period time. I'd say he'll put it back quickly if he becomes the leader of opposition again or PM.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby sogood » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:56 pm

iMad wrote:But will you be able to continue like that indefinitely?

Once the weight has been lost, one won't need to continue the same weight loss regime. Won't be same as before nor what's required to lose weight.
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby DaveOZ » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:57 pm

iMad wrote:
DaveOZ wrote:I've lost 8kg in 6 months by eating less, drinking not much and riding lots. It's easy really. :P

Devil's Advocate alert.... But will you be able to continue like that indefinitely?


Oh yes. The point is I haven't changed my diet much, just cut out the excess sugary stuff and stopped over-eating. Only have a beer or two on friday and saturday. I ride to work every day and a longer ride on the weekend. I was 89kg and I'm now 81kg. If I can get to 75kg in the next 6 months I will be very happy. I like my lifestyle now and see no reason to change it. :mrgreen:
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Re: Truth on diet and weight control

Postby iMad » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:52 pm

DaveOZ wrote:
iMad wrote:
DaveOZ wrote:I've lost 8kg in 6 months by eating less, drinking not much and riding lots. It's easy really. :P

Devil's Advocate alert.... But will you be able to continue like that indefinitely?


Oh yes. The point is I haven't changed my diet much, just cut out the excess sugary stuff and stopped over-eating. Only have a beer or two on friday and saturday. I ride to work every day and a longer ride on the weekend. I was 89kg and I'm now 81kg. If I can get to 75kg in the next 6 months I will be very happy. I like my lifestyle now and see no reason to change it. :mrgreen:

Lifestyle, lifestyle... If only we could be content with being miserable. :mrgreen:
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