How much do you eat and how often
The information / discussion in the Cycling Health Forum is not qualified medical advice. Please consult your doctor.
- Addictr3
- Posts: 714
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:26 pm
- Location: Manly, Sydney
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Addictr3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:27 pm
Carbohydrates are rarely converted to fat (a process called de novo lipogenesis) under normal dietary conditions. There are exceptions when this occurs. One is with massive chronic overfeeding of carbs. I’m talking 700-900 grams of carbs per day for multiple days. Under those conditions, carbs max out glycogen stores, are in excess of total daily energy requirements and you see the conversion of carbohydrate to fat for storage. But this is not a normal dietary situation for most people.
A few very stupid studies have shown that glucose INFUSION at levels of 1.5 total daily energy expenditure can cause DNL to occur but this is equally non-physiological. There is also some evidence that DNL may be increased in individuals with hyperinsulinemia (often secondary to obesity). There’s one final exception that I’ll use to finish this piece.
But when you eat more carbs, you burn more carbs and burn less fat. And that’s why even if carbs aren’t directly converted to fat and stored as such, excess carbs can STILL MAKE YOU FAT. Basically, by inhibiting fat oxidation, excess carbs cause you to store all the fat you’re eating without burning any of it off. Did you get that? Let me repeat it again.
Carbs don’t make you fat via direct conversion and storage to fat; but excess carbs can still make you fat by blunting out the normal daily fat oxidation so that all of the fat you’re eating is stored. Which is why a 500 cal surplus of fat and a 500 cal surplus of carbs can both make you fat; they just do it for different reasons through different mechanisms. The 500 calories of excess fat is simply stored; the excess 500 calories of carbs ensure that all the fat you’re eating is stored because carb oxidation goes up and fat oxidation goes down. Got it? If not, re-read this paragraph until it sinks in.
Oh yeah, the same holds for protein. Protein isn’t going to be converted to and stored as fat. But eat excess protein and the body will burn more protein for energy (and less carbs and fat). Which means that the other nutrients have to get stored. Which means that excess protein can still make you fat, just not by direct conversion. Rather, it does it by ensuring that the fat you’re eating gets stored.
Of course protein also has the highest thermic effect, more of the incoming calories are burned off. So excess protein tends to have the least odds of making you fat under any conditions; but excess protein can make you fat. Just not by direct conversion to fat; rather it’s indirectly by decreasing the oxidation of other nutrients.
Ok, is the above clear enough? Because I can’t really explain it any simpler but will try one last time using bullet points and an example. Let’s assume someone is eating at exactly maintenance calories. Neither gaining nor losing fat. Here’s what happens with excess calories. Assume that all three conditions represent identical increases in caloric intake, just from each of the different macros. Here’s what happens mechanistically and why all three still make you fat:
1.Excess dietary fat is directly stored as fat
2.Excess dietary carbs increases carb oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat
3.Excess dietary protein increases protein oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat
Got it? All three situations make you fat, just through different mechanisms. Fat is directly stored and carbs and protein cause you to store the fat you’re eating by decreasing fat oxidation.
And I’d note again, since someone will invariably misread this that that doesn’t mean that a low-carb and/or low-protein diet is therefore superior for fat loss. I’m not saying that and don’t think that I am. Because in such a situation, while you may be burning more fat, you’re also eating more dietary fat. So net fat balance can be unchanged despite the dicking around with macronutrient content. It still comes down to the deficit.
-
- Posts: 470
- Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 11:41 am
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Abby » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:39 am
Whilst its more complex than I personally need right now - another really interesting post. Thanks mate. Really enjoying these!
Cheers,
Abby
- Addictr3
- Posts: 714
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:26 pm
- Location: Manly, Sydney
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Addictr3 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:28 pm
Haha cheers Abby, atleast someone got the point and had a readAbby wrote:So at the end of the day - if you eat more calories than you burn, you'll get fat... (by one of three pathways, dependent on your macro-nutrient balance)...
Whilst its more complex than I personally need right now - another really interesting post. Thanks mate. Really enjoying these!
Cheers,
Abby
- Apple
- Posts: 3513
- Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:00 pm
- Location: sydney
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Apple » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:27 pm
I read it as well addict3 and I thought it was great reading, I substitute my processed carb calories for protein calories and vegetable calories. At the end of the day it is reduced calories but from foods that don't contain starch carbs, and chocolatesAddictr3 wrote:Haha cheers Abby, atleast someone got the point and had a readAbby wrote:So at the end of the day - if you eat more calories than you burn, you'll get fat... (by one of three pathways, dependent on your macro-nutrient balance)...
Whilst its more complex than I personally need right now - another really interesting post. Thanks mate. Really enjoying these!
Cheers,
Abby
I just simplify it more for myself.
Speak your mind,Those that mind dont matter, Those that matter dont mind!!
- Addictr3
- Posts: 714
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:26 pm
- Location: Manly, Sydney
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Addictr3 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:05 pm
- PawPaw
- Posts: 1244
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:53 am
- Location: Brisbane
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby PawPaw » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:03 pm
Care to specify the sensitivity of this 'fact' to a subject's existing bodyfat percentage?Addictr3 wrote: 3.Excess dietary protein increases protein oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat
- wizardhat
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:25 pm
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby wizardhat » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:58 am
-
- Posts: 1192
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:01 pm
- Location: Bass Hill, NSW
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby r2160 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:36 am
You put your specs (weight etc) into it and then start recording your meals. It shows carbs, protein levels etc and I have found it quite useful.
I have lost 5kg since 5 Feb.
Go and have a look. I think it makes it easier to sort out what you are eating.
cheers
Glenn
"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever" Lance Armstrong
- Apple
- Posts: 3513
- Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:00 pm
- Location: sydney
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Apple » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:50 pm
I will check it out Glenn, I have been a fan of Calorie King and I lost 6kg on that, but I am getting bored, maybe it's time to look at myfitnesspalr2160 wrote:I have been using a website called "www.myfitnesspal.com"
You put your specs (weight etc) into it and then start recording your meals. It shows carbs, protein levels etc and I have found it quite useful.
I have lost 5kg since 5 Feb.
Go and have a look. I think it makes it easier to sort out what you are eating.
cheers
Glenn
Speak your mind,Those that mind dont matter, Those that matter dont mind!!
- Apple
- Posts: 3513
- Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:00 pm
- Location: sydney
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Apple » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:58 pm
I think for you it would be best to understand the weight of food. I was the same at one stage. I would eat a whole chicken when I should really only eat 150grams not 2kg.wizardhat wrote:I don't know about anyone else but the difficult part for me is working out how much I should eat, not working out how much each food item contains!
my problem was Quantity., Don’t fill up your plate too high or just use a smaller plate. Don’t go for seconds, give your stomach time to send impulses to the brain to say hey we are full down here, no more food please.
Speak your mind,Those that mind dont matter, Those that matter dont mind!!
- wizardhat
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:25 pm
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby wizardhat » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:04 pm
I'm searching for the happy eating medium between having no energy when cycling 20km to/from work yet losing weight vs having plenty of energy while cycling but putting on weight . Just about figured it out.Apple wrote:I think for you it would be best to understand the weight of food. I was the same at one stage. I would eat a whole chicken when I should really only eat 150grams not 2kg.wizardhat wrote:I don't know about anyone else but the difficult part for me is working out how much I should eat, not working out how much each food item contains!
my problem was Quantity., Don’t fill up your plate too high or just use a smaller plate. Don’t go for seconds, give your stomach time to send impulses to the brain to say hey we are full down here, no more food please.
-
- Posts: 1252
- Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:53 am
- Location: Hobart
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby BarryTas » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:51 am
- Apple
- Posts: 3513
- Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:00 pm
- Location: sydney
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Apple » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:55 am
LOL,BarryTas wrote:my wife now introduces me as, "and this is Barry, please don't feed him"
I love it.
Speak your mind,Those that mind dont matter, Those that matter dont mind!!
- trailgumby
- Posts: 15469
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
- Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
- Contact:
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby trailgumby » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:30 pm
BarryTas wrote:my wife now introduces me as, "and this is Barry, please don't feed him"
-
- Posts: 292
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:57 pm
- Location: North of Cairns
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Meditator » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:06 am
That's asking a lot isn't it?PawPaw wrote:Care to specify the sensitivity of this 'fact' to a subject's existing bodyfat percentage?Addictr3 wrote: 3.Excess dietary protein increases protein oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat
I am also of the view that eating more than necessary protein is not helpful. carbs (healthy ones) are the best and the arguments ofr eating about 55% to i think its 65% carbs makes a lot of sense to me. People just like the protein fad because protein foods are yummy and easier to prepare, especially if you like meat.
I hope you were all watching catalyst tonight when it was pointed out that the only way the world can afford to keep feeding the burdgeoning middles classes around the world meat is by growing animals in tower blocks and keeping everyone penned up for their whole lives with nothing to do but wait for their next meal to be dumped in your solid floored pen and the chopping blog. Have a little care for the piggies and our other four legged friends and two legged friends. Eat less meat.
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby toolonglegs » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:17 am
- The Walrus
- Posts: 577
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:37 pm
- Location: Mullumbimby Creek NSW
How much do you eat and how often
Postby The Walrus » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:38 am
I don't have time to get the calculator out before I cook or when I'm at the supermarket!
I say eat less and move more is a pretty simple rule but to expand it a little more...'eat less crap, move more often' is my theory...
- Nikolai
- Posts: 351
- Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:55 pm
- Location: Melbourne
- Contact:
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Nikolai » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:22 am
- ZepinAtor
- Posts: 1558
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:46 pm
- Location: Brizzzzbane Everton Hillzzzz
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby ZepinAtor » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:48 am
Well that would explain why you're so slow.Nikolai wrote:I exist on beer and cement alone
-
- Posts: 292
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:57 pm
- Location: North of Cairns
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Meditator » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:04 pm
Its easy to find enough quality proteintoolonglegs wrote:I don't eat any meat apart from fish... finding good protein is hard work!. I have upped my protein intake to about 160 grams per day (double what I was) plus 300-400 grams of carb and abot 50-70 of fat.
all the beans legumes lentils are high in protein as well as carbs.
dairy is high in protein and milk is the best source of calcium because its so easy to get your daily requirement from only two cups of milk.
eggs
all protein is good quality
160g or protein is a lot. I remember reading that sportspeople should eat about a gram of protein per kg of their bodyweight. So you are either very overweight and therefore not a sportsperson or you are way overdoing it.
from http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrit ... rotein.htm
Our protein needs depend on our age, size, and activity level. The standard method used by nutritionists to estimate our minimum daily protein requirement is to multiply the body weight in kilograms by .8, or weight in pounds by .37. This is the number of grams of protein that should be the daily minimum. According to this method, a person weighing 150 lbs. should eat 55 grams of protein per day, a 200-pound person should get 74 grams, and a 250-pound person should eat 92 grams.
- skull
- Posts: 2087
- Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:48 pm
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby skull » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:20 pm
It works for Jens VoightZepinAtor wrote:Well that would explain why you're so slow.Nikolai wrote:I exist on beer and cement alone
- Nikolai
- Posts: 351
- Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:55 pm
- Location: Melbourne
- Contact:
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Nikolai » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:28 pm
Nah, I'm slow because I'm in no rush anywhereZepinAtor wrote:Well that would explain why you're so slow.Nikolai wrote:I exist on beer and cement alone
- Livetoride
- Posts: 2206
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:47 pm
- Location: South Eastern Melbourne
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby Livetoride » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:41 pm
- RonK
- Posts: 11508
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
- Location: If you need to know, ask me
- Contact:
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby RonK » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:09 am
- RonK
- Posts: 11508
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
- Location: If you need to know, ask me
- Contact:
Re: How much do you eat and how often
Postby RonK » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:15 am
That's a very female point of view - I've argued this ad infinitum with my wife. Sorry, the high carb diet may work for females, but it doesn't work for males. I convert carbs to fat in the blink of an eye. Protein and plenty of salad vegetables works better for males. Carbohydrates, especially high GI carbs are to be avoided.Meditator wrote:I am also of the view that eating more than necessary protein is not helpful. carbs (healthy ones) are the best and the arguments ofr eating about 55% to i think its 65% carbs makes a lot of sense to me. People just like the protein fad because protein foods are yummy and easier to prepare, especially if you like meat.
Proven scientifically by CSIRO - it's no fad.
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.