How much do you eat and how often

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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Addictr3 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:27 pm

Let’s work through this backwards. When you eat dietary fat, it’s primary fate is storage as its intake has very little impact on fat oxidation (and don’t ask me a bunch of questions about “But people say you have to eat fat to burn fat?” in the comments. That idea is fundamentally wrong but would take an entire article to address). It also doesn’t impact greatly on the oxidation of the protein or carbohydrates.

Carbohydrates are rarely converted to fat (a process called de novo lipogenesis) under normal dietary conditions. There are exceptions when this occurs. One is with massive chronic overfeeding of carbs. I’m talking 700-900 grams of carbs per day for multiple days. Under those conditions, carbs max out glycogen stores, are in excess of total daily energy requirements and you see the conversion of carbohydrate to fat for storage. But this is not a normal dietary situation for most people.

A few very stupid studies have shown that glucose INFUSION at levels of 1.5 total daily energy expenditure can cause DNL to occur but this is equally non-physiological. There is also some evidence that DNL may be increased in individuals with hyperinsulinemia (often secondary to obesity). There’s one final exception that I’ll use to finish this piece.

But when you eat more carbs, you burn more carbs and burn less fat. And that’s why even if carbs aren’t directly converted to fat and stored as such, excess carbs can STILL MAKE YOU FAT. Basically, by inhibiting fat oxidation, excess carbs cause you to store all the fat you’re eating without burning any of it off. Did you get that? Let me repeat it again.

Carbs don’t make you fat via direct conversion and storage to fat; but excess carbs can still make you fat by blunting out the normal daily fat oxidation so that all of the fat you’re eating is stored. Which is why a 500 cal surplus of fat and a 500 cal surplus of carbs can both make you fat; they just do it for different reasons through different mechanisms. The 500 calories of excess fat is simply stored; the excess 500 calories of carbs ensure that all the fat you’re eating is stored because carb oxidation goes up and fat oxidation goes down. Got it? If not, re-read this paragraph until it sinks in.

Oh yeah, the same holds for protein. Protein isn’t going to be converted to and stored as fat. But eat excess protein and the body will burn more protein for energy (and less carbs and fat). Which means that the other nutrients have to get stored. Which means that excess protein can still make you fat, just not by direct conversion. Rather, it does it by ensuring that the fat you’re eating gets stored.

Of course protein also has the highest thermic effect, more of the incoming calories are burned off. So excess protein tends to have the least odds of making you fat under any conditions; but excess protein can make you fat. Just not by direct conversion to fat; rather it’s indirectly by decreasing the oxidation of other nutrients.

Ok, is the above clear enough? Because I can’t really explain it any simpler but will try one last time using bullet points and an example. Let’s assume someone is eating at exactly maintenance calories. Neither gaining nor losing fat. Here’s what happens with excess calories. Assume that all three conditions represent identical increases in caloric intake, just from each of the different macros. Here’s what happens mechanistically and why all three still make you fat:
1.Excess dietary fat is directly stored as fat
2.Excess dietary carbs increases carb oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat
3.Excess dietary protein increases protein oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat

Got it? All three situations make you fat, just through different mechanisms. Fat is directly stored and carbs and protein cause you to store the fat you’re eating by decreasing fat oxidation.

And I’d note again, since someone will invariably misread this that that doesn’t mean that a low-carb and/or low-protein diet is therefore superior for fat loss. I’m not saying that and don’t think that I am. Because in such a situation, while you may be burning more fat, you’re also eating more dietary fat. So net fat balance can be unchanged despite the dicking around with macronutrient content. It still comes down to the deficit.
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by BNA » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:39 am

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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Abby » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:39 am

So at the end of the day - if you eat more calories than you burn, you'll get fat... (by one of three pathways, dependent on your macro-nutrient balance)... :)

Whilst its more complex than I personally need right now - another really interesting post. Thanks mate. :D Really enjoying these!

Cheers,
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Addictr3 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:28 pm

Abby wrote:So at the end of the day - if you eat more calories than you burn, you'll get fat... (by one of three pathways, dependent on your macro-nutrient balance)... :)

Whilst its more complex than I personally need right now - another really interesting post. Thanks mate. :D Really enjoying these!

Cheers,
Abby


Haha cheers Abby, atleast someone got the point and had a read :-)
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Apple » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:27 pm

Addictr3 wrote:
Abby wrote:So at the end of the day - if you eat more calories than you burn, you'll get fat... (by one of three pathways, dependent on your macro-nutrient balance)... :)

Whilst its more complex than I personally need right now - another really interesting post. Thanks mate. :D Really enjoying these!

Cheers,
Abby


Haha cheers Abby, atleast someone got the point and had a read :-)

I read it as well addict3 and I thought it was great reading, I substitute my processed carb calories for protein calories and vegetable calories. At the end of the day it is reduced calories but from foods that don't contain starch carbs, and chocolates :wink:
I just simplify it more for myself.
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Addictr3 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:05 pm

:-)
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby PawPaw » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:03 pm

Addictr3 wrote: 3.Excess dietary protein increases protein oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat


Care to specify the sensitivity of this 'fact' to a subject's existing bodyfat percentage?
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby wizardhat » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:58 am

I don't know about anyone else but the difficult part for me is working out how much I should eat, not working out how much each food item contains!
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby r2160 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:36 am

I have been using a website called "www.myfitnesspal.com"

You put your specs (weight etc) into it and then start recording your meals. It shows carbs, protein levels etc and I have found it quite useful.

I have lost 5kg since 5 Feb.

Go and have a look. I think it makes it easier to sort out what you are eating.

cheers
Glenn
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Apple » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:50 pm

r2160 wrote:I have been using a website called "www.myfitnesspal.com"

You put your specs (weight etc) into it and then start recording your meals. It shows carbs, protein levels etc and I have found it quite useful.

I have lost 5kg since 5 Feb.

Go and have a look. I think it makes it easier to sort out what you are eating.

cheers
Glenn

I will check it out Glenn, I have been a fan of Calorie King and I lost 6kg on that, but I am getting bored, maybe it's time to look at myfitnesspal :P
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Apple » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:58 pm

wizardhat wrote:I don't know about anyone else but the difficult part for me is working out how much I should eat, not working out how much each food item contains!

I think for you it would be best to understand the weight of food. I was the same at one stage. I would eat a whole chicken when I should really only eat 150grams not 2kg. :lol: :lol:
my problem was Quantity., Don’t fill up your plate too high or just use a smaller plate. Don’t go for seconds, give your stomach time to send impulses to the brain to say hey we are full down here, no more food please.
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby wizardhat » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:04 pm

Apple wrote:
wizardhat wrote:I don't know about anyone else but the difficult part for me is working out how much I should eat, not working out how much each food item contains!

I think for you it would be best to understand the weight of food. I was the same at one stage. I would eat a whole chicken when I should really only eat 150grams not 2kg. :lol: :lol:
my problem was Quantity., Don’t fill up your plate too high or just use a smaller plate. Don’t go for seconds, give your stomach time to send impulses to the brain to say hey we are full down here, no more food please.
I'm searching for the happy eating medium between having no energy when cycling 20km to/from work yet losing weight vs having plenty of energy while cycling but putting on weight :). Just about figured it out.
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby BarryTas » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:51 am

my wife now introduces me as, "and this is Barry, please don't feed him" :roll:
when do we stop for coffee???

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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Apple » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:55 am

BarryTas wrote:my wife now introduces me as, "and this is Barry, please don't feed him" :roll:

LOL,
I love it.
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby trailgumby » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:30 pm

BarryTas wrote:my wife now introduces me as, "and this is Barry, please don't feed him" :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Meditator » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:06 am

PawPaw wrote:
Addictr3 wrote: 3.Excess dietary protein increases protein oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat


Care to specify the sensitivity of this 'fact' to a subject's existing bodyfat percentage?


That's asking a lot isn't it?

I am also of the view that eating more than necessary protein is not helpful. carbs (healthy ones) are the best and the arguments ofr eating about 55% to i think its 65% carbs makes a lot of sense to me. People just like the protein fad because protein foods are yummy and easier to prepare, especially if you like meat.

I hope you were all watching catalyst tonight when it was pointed out that the only way the world can afford to keep feeding the burdgeoning middles classes around the world meat is by growing animals in tower blocks and keeping everyone penned up for their whole lives with nothing to do but wait for their next meal to be dumped in your solid floored pen and the chopping blog. Have a little care for the piggies and our other four legged friends and two legged friends. Eat less meat.
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:17 am

I don't eat any meat apart from fish... finding good protein is hard work!. I have upped my protein intake to about 160 grams per day (double what I was) plus 300-400 grams of carb and abot 50-70 of fat.
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How much do you eat and how often

Postby The Walrus » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:38 am

Interesting read although a bit heavy for me in parts. I think you can over think things and 'over science' it sometimes, but I respect other people views, opinions and techniques.

I don't have time to get the calculator out before I cook or when I'm at the supermarket!

I say eat less and move more is a pretty simple rule but to expand it a little more...'eat less crap, move more often' is my theory...
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Nikolai » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:22 am

I exist on beer and cement alone
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby ZepinAtor » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:48 am

Nikolai wrote:I exist on beer and cement alone


Well that would explain why you're so slow.
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Meditator » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:04 pm

toolonglegs wrote:I don't eat any meat apart from fish... finding good protein is hard work!. I have upped my protein intake to about 160 grams per day (double what I was) plus 300-400 grams of carb and abot 50-70 of fat.


Its easy to find enough quality protein

all the beans legumes lentils are high in protein as well as carbs.
dairy is high in protein and milk is the best source of calcium because its so easy to get your daily requirement from only two cups of milk.
eggs

all protein is good quality

160g or protein is a lot. I remember reading that sportspeople should eat about a gram of protein per kg of their bodyweight. So you are either very overweight and therefore not a sportsperson or you are way overdoing it.

from http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/protein.htm
Our protein needs depend on our age, size, and activity level. The standard method used by nutritionists to estimate our minimum daily protein requirement is to multiply the body weight in kilograms by .8, or weight in pounds by .37. This is the number of grams of protein that should be the daily minimum. According to this method, a person weighing 150 lbs. should eat 55 grams of protein per day, a 200-pound person should get 74 grams, and a 250-pound person should eat 92 grams.
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby skull » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:20 pm

ZepinAtor wrote:
Nikolai wrote:I exist on beer and cement alone


Well that would explain why you're so slow.


It works for Jens Voight
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Nikolai » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:28 pm

ZepinAtor wrote:
Nikolai wrote:I exist on beer and cement alone


Well that would explain why you're so slow.


Nah, I'm slow because I'm in no rush anywhere
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby Livetoride » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:41 pm

I've never looked at my food (without drooling) from a point of view of how much there is or what kind it is out side of carbs or protein, me hungry, me eat till me full. Though the more veg I'm eating the more energetic I'm feeling. Gotta love my steaks though mmmmm off the fridge I goes :)
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby RonK » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:09 am

I think many cyclists tend to over-compensate when it comes to food. I find the exercise stimulates my metabolism, makes me feel hungry. And of course we use it to excuse any guilt about pigging out with a big greasy breakfast and a second cappuccino. But unless you are a racing cyclist in heavy training I don't think any extra food intake is justified. Most of us eat too much already.
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Re: How much do you eat and how often

Postby RonK » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:15 am

Meditator wrote:I am also of the view that eating more than necessary protein is not helpful. carbs (healthy ones) are the best and the arguments ofr eating about 55% to i think its 65% carbs makes a lot of sense to me. People just like the protein fad because protein foods are yummy and easier to prepare, especially if you like meat.

That's a very female point of view - I've argued this ad infinitum with my wife. Sorry, the high carb diet may work for females, but it doesn't work for males. I convert carbs to fat in the blink of an eye. Protein and plenty of salad vegetables works better for males. Carbohydrates, especially high GI carbs are to be avoided.
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