Running

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Running

Postby mants » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:51 pm

Just wondering, how much does running help with road cycling?
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by BNA » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:02 pm

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Re: Running

Postby RonK » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:02 pm

mants wrote:Just wondering, how much does running help with road cycling?

No - it just gives you sore knees...
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Re: Running

Postby Ozkaban » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:06 pm

I was a runner before I started cycling. Lots of cyclists are like this... running ruins your body but is more effective at burning calories.

At first, I found that the increased training I was doing (running my normal load, plus cycling) was improving my running.

Then I found that the muscles are used very differently, and some that are lengthened by running are shortened by cycling (eg hip flexors), and vice versa. If you look at what the leg position is during the period of highest power delivery, you'll see the difference.

In short, Cycling is more in the quads, running is more in the glutes/hamstrings.

If you want to improve your cycling, try stair climbing. Much more similar action to cycling (kinda like standing in a sprint), with awesome cardio too. Will kill your knees pretty quickly though.

Others with more training/experience will know more but that's just my 2c.
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Re: Running

Postby mants » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:13 pm

ONly reason im asking is my friend does triathlons and is training for 70:30 ironman, so ive been going out running with him lately and just wondered really what way it would either help or not help me.
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Running

Postby RonK » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:36 pm

mants wrote:ONly reason im asking is my friend does triathlons and is training for 70:30 ironman, so ive been going out running with him lately and just wondered really what way it would either help or not help me.

I suspect you would get better value if you went swimming training with him. Good for cardio and neglected upper body.


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Re: Running

Postby waramatt » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:39 pm

I'm a reformed (and still occasional) runner who is now primarily a cyclist. I believe that running builds aerobic capacity far more effectively (per minute spent) than cycling.

I tackled Mt Sugarloaf near Newcastle for the first time a few weeks ago. There's nothing scientific about it, but believe that my 2 x 5k runs p.w at good pace helped get me up the last stretch - a rather steep section at 15-18% known as "The Ramp". I put it down to running building my aerobic capacity. Lots of cyclists I know who don't run failed at that section of the ride.
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Re: Running

Postby iMad » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:00 pm

mants wrote:Just wondering, how much does running help with road cycling?

When I was running and cycling together years ago the mix of the two seemed to be perfect.
However, after some time being off the bike and living in a very hilly part of Charlestown Newcastle, I dragged the bike out and pumped the tires and decided to ride instead of run.
At the time I was running around 30-40km per week at the time and was extremely fit however I hadn't cycled for about 12 months or a tad more.

Well, blow me down, I couldn't believe how hard I found it on the bike. I only managed a few short km and gave it away thinking how much easier running was than cycling (unfair I know, different muscle sets).
My advice from my distant past is that running and cycling work well together while ever you keep them both up.
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Re: Running

Postby mants » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:06 pm

iMad wrote:
mants wrote:Just wondering, how much does running help with road cycling?

When I was running and cycling together the mix seemed to be perfect.
However, many years ago I lived in a very hilly part of Charlestown Newcastle. I was running around 30-40km per week at the time and was extremely fit however I hadn't cycled for about 12 months.

One morning I dragged the bike out and pumped the tires and decided to ride instead of run.
Well, blow me down, I couldn't believe how hard I found it on the bike. I only managed a few short km and gave it away thinking how much easier running was than cycling (unfair I know).
My advice from my distant past is that they work well together while ever you keep them both up.


I ride 20km's a day, to work and back 10km each way, then possibly a longer cycle in the morning taking in around 50km mondays and thursday i try to do it but some times just doesnt work before work.
Then at weekends i would go out on the bike also and do a ride between 70 - 100km

Then the running fits in around that, say a 6.30pm run up the coast.

Obviously i want to get my bike fitness to the best it can and also help my friend train for the ironman without it doing damage to my bike fitness.
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Re: Running

Postby Ozkaban » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:36 am

iMad wrote:My advice from my distant past is that running and cycling work well together while ever you keep them both up.


I think that's is the crux of it. You need to keep up both. I have swung too much towards cycling to keep my running effective, but that's fine by me.

Lots of stretching helps too.

Cheers,
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Re: Running

Postby eeksll » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:42 pm

I'd be interested to see how you go. Especially if you tack onto some interval running sessions.

Running did nothing for my riding except make me too sore to ride hard the next day.
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Re: Running

Postby Sydguy » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:52 pm

I used to do a moderate amount of running say 40 to 50kms a week until I got a bike.

Since starting to ride I have done NO running with the exception of the City to Surf and Rebel Sport Run for run.

In both events my times have gone down but the pain I get post race and recovery time has gone up.

If I had the time I would run and cycle but as cycling is more efficient, fun and useful as a form of transport it wins out easily over running.

JM
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Re: Running

Postby Wayfarer » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:00 am

as an exercise scientist, I'd tell you it increases your cardio system faster; 200km on the bike is equivalent to about 40km on the road, or 4km in the pool. But neither alternative teaches your body to burn fats as effectively, or uses as much body fat. some would argue neither is as fun either. But the best way to train for cycling is to... cycle. I bet Cadel Evans can only run to the toilet :lol:
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Re: Running

Postby iMad » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:18 am

Wayfarer wrote:as an exercise scientist, I'd tell you it increases your cardio system faster; 200km on the bike is equivalent to about 40km on the road, or 4km in the pool. But neither alternative teaches your body to burn fats as effectively, or uses as much body fat. some would argue neither is as fun either. But the best way to train for cycling is to... cycle. I bet Cadel Evans can only run to the toilet :lol:

I guess that depends on whether you're training for cycle racing or simply exercising for enjoyment and associated health benefits.
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Re: Running

Postby wizardhat » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:33 am

This is purely anecdotal: I've found that over time running and doing sprint intervals once a week has helped reduce the lower back pain I used to experience on longer rides, and I'm also able to ride faster for longer periods of time. Admittedly I could have done intervals on a bicycle, but I don't need as much room to run and I wasn't completely comfortable doing cycling sprints on the road.

I'm not 100% sure if the running actually helped my lower back but it's the only significant change I made in my routine - presumably the running is helping my core strength somehow?
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Re: Running

Postby newie » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:27 pm

waramatt wrote: I tackled Mt Sugarloaf near Newcastle for the first time a few weeks ago. There's nothing scientific about it, but believe that my 2 x 5k runs p.w at good pace helped get me up the last stretch - a rather steep section at 15-18% known as "The Ramp". I put it down to running building my aerobic capacity. Lots of cyclists I know who don't run failed at that section of the ride.


I'm not so sure about that. I hate running and am not hugely fit but can make it up Sugarloaf OK. I would imagine making it up has more to do with weight and gearing. And perhaps a willingness to "enjoy" the pain.
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Re: Running

Postby Wayfarer » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:25 am

iMad wrote:I guess that depends on whether you're training for cycle racing or simply exercising for enjoyment and associated health benefits.

That is not what was asked. Read the original question.
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Re: Running

Postby UpDownUp » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:00 am

If you're reasonably fit then running is probably not likely to help too much with road cycling. The issue is specificity - the muscle used, the activation pattern, and co-ordination is quite different.
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Re: Running

Postby clackers » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:22 am

As Ozkaban pointed out, cross training by doing repeats of running up something like a hill is good for developing your climbing.

If you can only ride stop-start in suburban streets, it may be very hard to raise your heart rate for a consistent 30-60 minutes the way running can.

Conversely, the damage done to joints by running can make cycling an attractive alternative aerobic activity for athletes.

Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer had a knee reconstruction done and in the rehabilitation fell in love with bikes and is apparently very good.
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Re: Running

Postby iMad » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:15 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
iMad wrote:I guess that depends on whether you're training for cycle racing or simply exercising for enjoyment and associated health benefits.

That is not what was asked. Read the original question.

Fair enough.
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Re: Running

Postby Eleri » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:36 pm

I run and cycle and have done so for years, sometimes I run more, sometimes I cycle more but lately I've been spending more time on the bike. I do both because I like both and I travel alot for work and I can run when I'm away from home a whole lot more easily than cycling or trying to find a spin class.

This year I trained hard for the City to Surf and then a Half Marathon and did the fastest time I have ever done in the C2S by quite a considerable margin. I did lots of intensity - steep hill sprints, tempo runs and all that. At the same time I was racing on the track and doing the usual weekend rides. I got alot faster on the bike, despite dropping the kms considerably. I wasn't expecting that to happen.

What works for me is that I can easily fit in a run which is better than doing nothing and I focussed on intensity. I also do a bit of core work and that helps both disciplines.

Over summer however, I dropped off the running considerably and focussed on big distance and hills on the bike. Much faster on the bike, but I've dropped speed on the run, but can still manage 10kms at half marathon pace, despite maybe running 3 or 4 times since Christmas.

I think it is about keeping your hand in on both, prioritising what you want at the time you want.
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Re: Running

Postby speciallezed » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:42 pm

I still can't run well and do not enjoy it any where as much as riding but after reading a few articals like this one I decided I needed to do a bit more weight bearing activity.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/03/bo ... lists.html
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Re: Running

Postby heay » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:52 pm

I used to be a runner that made it overseas back in 2004 and failed in my bid at gaining a spot on the olympic team. I took up cycling as a form of cross training and have completely been converted over. So 3 years ago I stopped running all together until the other week I was asked to do the run leg (due to a staff member having to pull out because of a personal reason) of the Mooloolaba tri at the end of this month.

I have been running for a total of 4 weeks so far and have found it has helped heaps with my cycling to date, my running has come back to very quickly and have already run at the pace I said I would be looking at doing the 10km run in.

Take it easy, don't over train and listen to your body.
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Re: Running

Postby mants » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:17 pm

Cheers for the info guys.

I hadnt ran in about 10 days and then my friend whos training for the half ironman asked if i wanted to go running, we ended up doing 12km that night and i didnt even feel tired at all the whole time.

Then on Sunday past there i ran in a 5km race, guy who finished 1st done it in 15mins 10secs, i finished 95th out of 276 in a time of 22mins 30sec, kms of 4mins 30 which i am totally pleased with it as ive never ran to any sort of time like that.
I went off the line far too quickly and within 500m i found myself struggling so backed off to make sure id finish the race.
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Re: Running

Postby Wayfarer » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:12 pm

mants wrote:Cheers for the info guys.

I hadnt ran in about 10 days and then my friend whos training for the half ironman asked if i wanted to go running, we ended up doing 12km that night and i didnt even feel tired at all the whole time.

Then on Sunday past there i ran in a 5km race, guy who finished 1st done it in 15mins 10secs, i finished 95th out of 276 in a time of 22mins 30sec, kms of 4mins 30 which i am totally pleased with it as ive never ran to any sort of time like that.
I went off the line far too quickly and within 500m i found myself struggling so backed off to make sure id finish the race.

That's only a good sign man; you're learning more about your engine and how it works! It seems like you've a 4 stroke engine design rather than a 2 stroker - some of us actually open up and destroy the last 5k's in a race, but I suppose you'd get better fuel consumption with only slightly less power*

*consult your mechanic if this made no sense :D
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Re: Running

Postby skull » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:36 pm

RonK wrote:
mants wrote:Just wondering, how much does running help with road cycling?

No - it just gives you sore knees...


And it my case it also inflames my compartments.
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