Any vegans here?

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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby PawPaw » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:16 am

simonn wrote:*Seriously, all elite athletes are genetic freaks. Long long long gone are the days wait Billy Bothwaite worked downt steel mill, 'ad chips with his mum on a Friday and then ran 'round t'park f'training was elite level.


Personally, my dietary preference is for optimized psychoemotional and physical health, and longevity. I'd not be surprised if prioritizing a diet and lifestyle that leads to exceptional endurance or strength compromises longevity.

Settle down Friendly, Noah does power lifting from what I've read. And what's AOWA? Do you mean AWF?
As for wearing a badge, I'd say Melbourne Vegan Strength is a bloody big badge, and PR juggernaut. The MVS boys would get more publicity if they participated in AWF events, and got to the Commonwealth and Olympic games.

Yes, Zep has muscles on his muscles, kind of.

Look, I am not dumping on veganism or vegos. I think the evidence is indisputable Western lifestyle diseases are lower in these groups.
I just think primarily plant eaters are underrepresented in strength related vocations and interests, and am interested in others' experiences and perspectives.

And I am a bit confused about durianrider. Why does he go around yelling he eats 30 bananas a day, when he eats a whole lot of other stuff too? bit of confusing message. And his gf made a video explaining she takes B12 injections regularly. Does anyone have a link that shows what their complete diet is, and what it is they promote specifically?
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by BNA » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:41 pm

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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby simonn » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:41 pm

PawPaw wrote:I just think primarily plant eaters are underrepresented in strength related vocations and interests


I suspect that this is because primarily plant eating is primarily for cerebral rather than physical reasons.

I am also pretty sure that the only reason vegetarians/vegans are healthier then meat eaters as groups is due to the fact that they at least tilt their hat towards having a healthy diet. It is perfectly possible for all three groups to have healthy or unhealthy diets. My vegetarian diet of a few years ago consisting mostly of takeaway pizza, curry and beer was certainly not healthy :).
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby PawPaw » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:08 pm

simonn wrote:
PawPaw wrote:My vegetarian diet of a few years ago consisting mostly of takeaway pizza, curry and beer was certainly not healthy :).


Don't I know it. The number of vegos I've met who think donuts, hot chips, and pasta are the three major food groups.
Though poor old omnivores unfortunately have their results skewed by the fast foodies.

Anyways, I've got a bowl of steamed vege with fresh coriander, lentils and pintos in a tomato sauce, and mashed sweet potato waiting.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby baabaa » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:22 pm

The number of vegos I've met who think donuts, hot chips, and pasta are the three major food groups.

Yeah right, keep on picking on the minority groups. I live in hope that one day my fellow Vegobeigetarians will even be acknowledged with a listing on Wikipedia.
(Long live the pineapple donut! Long live the pineapple donut! Long live the pineapple donut!)
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby ball bearing » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:13 am

PawPaw wrote:
ball bearing wrote:Vegetarian here since 1973 and vegan for 14 years. The only supplement I take is methylcobalamin which is B12. My children have all been raised with the same diet and their health is outstanding. I have never been on any medications nor do I have any health problems (knock on wood).

I'd be interested in your life story bb, and the lifestyles of your kids. Are you all super active, strong? endurance?
I've always met heaps of vegos who lead more passive or endurance sport lives, though not as many who are into rugby, mountain climbing, Olympic weightlifting, etc.


My children are excellent examples of healthy and strong life-long vegetarians. My son, especially, is built like he works out with weights. He gets asked all the time if he is a bodybuider. He is a surfer and cyclist. He went on a ride with a couple of visitors from the USA who are fitness freaks. They borrowed a couple of mountain bikes and set off on some of our local rides through some really steep trails. Ha! My son had to wait at the top of every climb because they couldn't keep up. My son got a real laugh out of this.

I have been very busy felling trees and clearing fire-breaks on my place. I don't use my little tractor for carting around the cut up trunks and branches to where I burn them because I like the hard exercise. I also cycle through the hills which are really long and steep - both road and MTB.


At this point, I don't think it's possible for vegans to achieve the same strength and power as meat eaters, but I think the latter's strength is due to enhanced by animal sourced steroids, which has more health disadvantages than the strength advantage conferred. Am not saying vegans cannot be strong. A mate has been a medico with the Aust Olympic Weightlifting Association for decades, and knows of no elite level lifters who are vego or vegan.


Where did you get that idea from?

"Olympics 2012 VEGAN Athletes Highlights - Swim Track Field Gymnatics Basketball USA Gold Games"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsDIGVtwQRs

Most body-builders (omnivore and veggo alike) take and inject whatever it takes to be massive. I hate the look myself and I prefer to be supple and flexible instead. My body type is like my son's.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby KonaCommuter » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:16 pm

Thank you for all the comments in this thread



I'm working towards being a Vegan. Kicking the meat habit is hard but that's thanks in large part to me being weak and falling back on bad habits.


Although in my defence I don't buy meat, dairy (even for the wife) or eggs from the supermarket anymore
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby PawPaw » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:27 pm

ball bearing wrote:Where did you get that idea from?

"Olympics 2012 VEGAN Athletes Highlights - Swim Track Field Gymnatics Basketball USA Gold Games"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsDIGVtwQRs


BB, I am interested in life long or very long term vegans and vegos.
There's heaps of derivative junk on the internet saying this or that hunky athlete is vegan/vego.
They rarely say how long for, nor whether they built their athletic base when vegan/vego.

i.e.
Vegan promoters proudly promote Carl Lewis as one of theirs, but he didn't go vegan until 30yo. He had one good competitive year, then began his decline and chronic injury problems. Nor do they point out the role of genetics in Carl's success - his mother and sister were both Olympians and not vegans.

It can take decades for nutrient deficiencies to hit vegans and vegos. This is why I am genuinely interested in life stories of long term or life long v/v's.
Further, when I went ovolactovego in 1979, I never had B12 supplements. I am curious to know what supplements longer termers have taken in their lives.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby ball bearing » Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:00 am

PawPaw wrote:BB, I am interested in life long or very long term vegans and vegos.
There's heaps of derivative junk on the internet saying this or that hunky athlete is vegan/vego.
They rarely say how long for, nor whether they built their athletic base when vegan/vego.


As I said before, I have not eaten meat for nearly 40 years. Thankfully, I do not suffer any medical conditions, I never get the flu or colds (hay fever is another story) nor do I take any medications. It amazes me when men tell me what medications they take. My father died very young from heart disease - they say that heart disease is often hereditary, I suspect that what is usually inherited is an unhealthy diet and lifestyle. He drank booze, smoked, ate heaps of meat and never did any exercise. Seeing his poor example probably is what set me in an entirely different direction; thanks dad.

As for the show-bottle vegan athletes, it is difficult to know their dietary life stories. Tim VanOrden is one of the most prominent raw food vegan elite athletes who gives a very full account of his lifestyle journey.

http://www.runningraw.com/


i.e.
Vegan promoters proudly promote Carl Lewis as one of theirs, but he didn't go vegan until 30yo. He had one good competitive year, then began his decline and chronic injury problems. Nor do they point out the role of genetics in Carl's success - his mother and sister were both Olympians and not vegans.

It can take decades for nutrient deficiencies to hit vegans and vegos. This is why I am genuinely interested in life stories of long term or life long v/v's.
Further, when I went ovolactovego in 1979, I never had B12 supplements. I am curious to know what supplements longer termers have taken in their lives.

I take the methylcobalamin form of B12. Some people try and claim that needing a B12 supplement proves that a plant-based diet is unnatural, but many omnivores suffer from a B12 deficiency. I didn't take any supplement for decades and I only do so now as a precautionary measure.

Over the years I have learned to never preach about being a vegan unless I am asked about it. Even mentioning being a vegan seems to cause some people to be disturbed. It can be challenging to question whether what we eat is actually bringing health and well-being. After all, momma wouldn't feed me something that wasn't good for me, would she? :D
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby PawPaw » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:33 pm

I've had a bit of a google to check the quantity of B12 in various foods.
Marmite is fortified with it, but you'd need to eat 4 tspns a day to get your recommended daily intake.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby Eleri » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:01 am

I've been a vegetarian and occasional vegan for over 30 years and prior to that didn't eat much meat at all. I'd be quite happy being a vegan left to my own devices but it's a bit hard when you live with people who have a strong preference for euro type food. About 80% of lunch and dinner meals are vegan in our house still.

I've also played / participated in sport all my life including a bunch of team sports (AFL, soccer, netball, touch) and running and cycling. Mostly I'm an enduro rather than a sprinter.

I have no comparison of what I was like before being a vege and after - too much water under the bridge!

I'm training and harder now than I have for perhaps 15 years. And I'm racing faster. I've got running times that go back for years and I know I'm running my fastest times ever at the moment. I shaved 4 mins off my previous City to Surf time this year for instance (5% faster).

I've always tried to balance protein and carbohydrates in meals and I think about that when I'm preparing meals. Too many vegetarians go for a pasta with tomato sauce and not enough protein in that or don't get the carbs right. But just recently, for the first time, I've added protein supplements to my diet. I wasn't sure I was getting enough in the right form in my diet. So far that seems to be working and I'm definitely stronger on the bike. Hasn't made much difference to endurance I think, but then that was always my great strength.

However, I have put on a little bit of weight (maybe 1.5 kg) since I upped the protein so I might have to readjust other bits of my diet. Or stop eating cakes :-)

Not sure what any of that entirely subjective story tells anyone else though.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby PawPaw » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:03 pm

Eleri wrote:Not sure what any of that entirely subjective story tells anyone else though.


Thanks for sharing Eleri. You are right that it is hard to draw conclusions from subjective impressions. There's so much talk about vegos not getting enough protein, but most of us have no idea how much protein we consume across our total diet.

I've got a riding mate who keeps recommending I have a whey protein shake after training. His conditioning doesn't allow him to accept I already get the recommended 1g CHO high GI and 0.2 g PRO /kg BM from other sources.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby Eleri » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:13 pm

There's so much talk about vegos not getting enough protein, but most of us have no idea how much protein we consume across our total diet.

I did keep a food diary for a week and added up the protein and tried to adjust for what's possible to take up and what isn't. On the basis of that I found I was getting a little bit more than I needed to maintain current muscle mass given my age.

But decided that if I wanted to add muscle especially for sprint, then I needed to up the protein a little bit. It's hard to know whether it is the training or the increased protein or both that's making the difference.

On the other hand, I have to eat something after training so I might as well chuck in a bit more protein and a bit less carbs.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby PawPaw » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:30 pm

Eleri wrote:On the other hand, I have to eat something after training so I might as well chuck in a bit more protein and a bit less carbs.


The trouble with upping protein is there's few sources of it unaccompanied by a large dose of fat and Calories.
For vegos, TVP vegetable protein and nutritional yeast has around 50%, and amino acids (BCAAs and alpha alanine) have 100% protein.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby ZepinAtor » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:01 pm

PawPaw wrote:
The trouble with upping protein is there's few sources of it unaccompanied by a large dose of fat and Calories.


I would say having large doses of fat & calories accompanied by upping your protein intake is a good thing.

There are so many misconceptions about fat/calorie intake in ones diet. Don't be afraid of fat as I'm living proof of that. I eat at least 1kg of raw nuts per week which equates to a shedload of fat, which I'm definitely not.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby Eleri » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:30 am

PawPaw wrote:

The trouble with upping protein is there's few sources of it unaccompanied by a large dose of fat and Calories.


Oh yeah, but I'm more than a machine and I have to enjoy what I eat! And it's not as if I don't need calories and I thought that protein and carbs are about the same in kj/weight. and I do need some fat in my diet.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby PawPaw » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:35 pm

Zep and El, while I've been on the vegan challenge, some weeks I've been eating 1kg of nuts too (6,500 Calories), and NOT losing weight, despite cycling 350-400km, including around 2000-3000m of climbing, and ~1-2 hours of intervals at FTP. i.e. today 102km, 2000+m, Tamborine Village to Binna Burra out and back via Tamborine Mtn. I also spend 15-20 hours a week on my feet at work.

So vegan diet and nut eating don't mean automatic weight control/loss for everyone. Though I do acknowledge there's half a dozen studies that show eating the same Calorie number from nuts and meat, results in nuts leading to less weight gain. Scientists think it is to do with greater satiety and compensatory reduced intake of other foods.

My view is free fatty acids and triglycerides are the primary energy substrate in activities up to 65% of VO2max.
i.e.
VO2max , Fat% of fuel substrate
25% 80%
65% 50%
85% 20%

Therefore, what % of one's Calories are best taken from fat presumably depends on the intensity and volume of your activity/exercise.
The more sedentary or low intensity activity one engages, the more you can get away with high fat intake. But moderate to high intensity endurance exercisers need to take a lot more carbs to replenish glycogen stores and provide glucose during exercise, and protein for tissue damage repair.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby Eleri » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:55 pm

Therefore, what % of one's Calories are best taken from fat presumably depends on the intensity and volume of your activity/exercise.
The more sedentary or low intensity activity one engages, the more you can get away with high fat intake. But moderate to high intensity endurance exercisers need to take a lot more carbs to replenish glycogen stores and provide glucose during exercise, and protein for tissue damage repair.


I think that's right, without thinking through the science of it (because I'm lazy!). It's what is behind my decision to up protein and subsequent weight gain because I then increased my total kj intake rather than cutting back somewhere else.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby ZepinAtor » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:50 pm

PawPaw wrote:Zep and El, while I've been on the vegan challenge, some weeks I've been eating 1kg of nuts too , and NOT losing weight....


So vegan diet and nut eating don't mean automatic weight control/loss for everyone.



How very true Pawpaw. The Vegan diet is by no means a sure weight loss mechanism for anybody. I lost almost all my weight while eating chicken, salmon, yogurt & seafood over the previous 12 months (25kg). "But" my new vegan diet (12 months now) has proven to keep the weight off (+ 5 additional kg) & decrease body fat immensely.

Whether or not this Vegan diet is theoretically beneficial or not, the proof is in the pudding along with being very motivating & challenging at the same time. It has given me a control factor in my life & a definite direction with good results. I now have a good appreciation for all living things & a more tolerant attitude towards others. It's a step in the right direction & appears to be an ever evolving process or life journey I'm currently travelling along.

More peaceful, more forgiving, more understanding of others separating from my own self absorbed attitude from the past. Time to pull the head out of the sand & smell the flowers so to speak.

This Vegan diet has become a way of life now.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby death valley 69 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:54 am

I eat heaps of nuts ; Almonds, walnuts(omega 3) and brazil. I find the best soy protein sources to be Tempeh and Miso. TVP,Tofu ,Soy Milk etc are not fermented and should be used 1-2 times a week. These are just my findings from experimenting over the years. :)
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby PawPaw » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:14 pm

Wow Zep, didn't realize you lost 25kg. When I've seen you over the last 12 mths, you look like you've always been lean and mean.

DV, thanks for the reminder. I'll have to try some tempeh and miso. Haven't had them for yonks.

A few days ago, I bought this nut paste based made purely from walnuts, almonds, and cashews. Tastes great spread on rice crackers.
Haven't tried to blend nuts in my Breville blender. Have seen the Vitamix blender do it, but who wants to pay $1500 odd.
Just googled and found this blender!!
1/3 the price of the Vitamix, and heats too.
http://froothie.com.au/Optimum9200.php
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby KonaCommuter » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:28 pm

PawPaw wrote:Wow Zep, didn't realize you lost 25kg. When I've seen you over the last 12 mths, you look like you've always been lean and mean.

DV, thanks for the reminder. I'll have to try some tempeh and miso. Haven't had them for yonks.

A few days ago, I bought this nut paste based made purely from walnuts, almonds, and cashews. Tastes great spread on rice crackers.
Haven't tried to blend nuts in my Breville blender. Have seen the Vitamix blender do it, but who wants to pay $1500 odd.
Just googled and found this blender!!
1/3 the price of the Vitamix, and heats too.
http://froothie.com.au/Optimum9200.php




I got my Vitamix for $800 at a health expo. I don't begrudge a single penny and if I had to fit out a new kitchen it'd be right up there with my juicer as a "must have"


Although that Froothie looks like it'd to the job as well.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby PawPaw » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:35 pm

A friend wants to buy a vitamix but doesn't want to pay big $$$s....though $800 would be enticing.

Personally, I don't know if I want to combine a heater and blender. For 30 years, I've been happy to heat first then blend, or vv.
I've owned half a dozen blenders over 30 years, and the blades go blunt or the rotor bearing packs it in. So I kind of expect to get 30 hours of use before they kark it. Putting a heating element into it would seem to be something else that could fail.
But then, a 7 year warranty is pretty serious. Says a lot though that Froothie want to charge around a 30% premium for an extra 6 years warranty.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby ball bearing » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:45 pm

PawPaw wrote:A friend wants to buy a vitamix but doesn't want to pay big $$$s....though $800 would be enticing.

$789 Aussie warranty.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BRAND-NEW-Vi ... 19cffd9f44
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby PawPaw » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:07 pm

ball bearing wrote:
PawPaw wrote:A friend wants to buy a vitamix but doesn't want to pay big $$$s....though $800 would be enticing.

$789 Aussie warranty.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BRAND-NEW-Vi ... 19cffd9f44


hmmm....a good price but being an overly cynical long in the tooth kinda guy, I am distrustful of merchants who canvas for 'back orders' on the basis of vague or superceded fill dates. Often it means they don't order until they have ~10 back orders, and the cash in hand. Then they just contact someone like
http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/133751785/Vita_Mix_5200_Blender_Package.html
Warranty details can be sketchy too.

But that's just my suspicious nature.
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Re: Any vegans here?

Postby KonaCommuter » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:26 pm

PawPaw wrote:A friend wants to buy a vitamix but doesn't want to pay big $$$s....though $800 would be enticing.

Personally, I don't know if I want to combine a heater and blender. For 30 years, I've been happy to heat first then blend, or vv.
I've owned half a dozen blenders over 30 years, and the blades go blunt or the rotor bearing packs it in. So I kind of expect to get 30 hours of use before they kark it. Putting a heating element into it would seem to be something else that could fail.
But then, a 7 year warranty is pretty serious. Says a lot though that Froothie want to charge around a 30% premium for an extra 6 years warranty.




The Vitamix doesn't have a heating element.

The heat is generated by the speed of the blades.

When I saw the demonstration and they made a hot soup from room temperature vegetables and tap water.... Well, I was ready to fork out my dollars right then and there.


I just used my Vitamix this evening for dinner


1 litre of water
2 x handfuls of Cashew Nuts
1 whole Red Capsicum (sliced of course)
1 x clove of garlic
1 x carrot (cut up)
1 x knob of ginger (I like ginger)
1 x stick of celery
small bit of cabbage
2 stock cubes (vegetable of course)

You can add a small chilli but my wife sometimes isn't so keen on it



Blend up the cashews first then slowly add the other ingredients. Nice and warm after a few minutes and only one dish dirtied (not including serving bowls)




YUM
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