Building Upper Body

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Building Upper Body

Postby rabobank89 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:09 pm

Hey guys,

I'm going to start training with my brother who's a body builder to build my upper body mass but I'm concerned how that may impact cycling.

Do any of you guys mix strength training with cycling?

Most cyclists I see are slim stick things and most others are older men with guts, rarely do I see cyclists with a muscular upper body..
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by BNA » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:31 pm

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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby Ozkaban » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:31 pm

Beyond the additional weight of muscle mass there would be no detriment.

If you're elite, looking for the last ounce of efficiency then it may be an issue. Then again, if you're elite you probably spend all your time on a bike and are not concerned at all about upper body strength...

For what it's worth, I enjoy doing a range of fitness activities including gym, running, cycling and even occasionally kettle bells... Mind you, I don't race, I just enjoy riding.

Just my 2c

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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby Eleri » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:35 pm

I think there is a different between strength training and body building.

I do a bit of upper body and core strength training, but not with the aim of building bulk. More just to maintain a balanced body and with the most focus on core.

I do race, but like Ozkaban I also run and want to be all round strong. It probably does matter what you want to do with your riding really. You'll be OK in crits with a bit of bulk but not so much in road races I wouldn't think.
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby biftek » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:05 pm

check out ausbb.com
"bulking up" doesn't happen over night , takes a lot of training to get huge so you don't really have all that much to worry about
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby nmjehu » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:26 am

I guess it comes down to your goals and aspirations, if your goals are racing based then you should take into account the concept of functional mass. If your climbing hills you dont want to have what is deemed useless mass, bulk muscle that has little functionality to the given action. However if you are going to the gym for cosmetic reasons and that is your main goal, go right ahead.
Ultimately your strength will increase much quicker than you will put on muscle, so you might find a happy medium 6-12 months down the track.
You can always design your gym program around your cycling aspirations, one of the bestways to improve your cycling is to train your core, its amazing how many cyclist cant actually lock in their core while cycling. However your cycling program can also suport your gym aspirations as well.
f you do decide to hit the gym to build mass, make sure you train your back, many ammature bodybuilders skip their back resulting in a hunched over posture. This isnt going to help your cycling as it can result in back failure and almost certainly will mean your hunched over position will have a negative impact upon your ability to breathe in O2 at your capacity.

just my 2cents :)
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby Mrfenejeans » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:09 am

Eleri wrote:...I do a bit of upper body and core strength training, but not with the aim of building bulk. More just to maintain a balanced body and with the most focus on core. ...


+1

My main goal is to have some upper body and core strength, and give my legs a different work out, i went through a stage as a teenager wanting big arms etc, but that has gone by the wayside now that I cycle, as long as you are sensible and don't do the training required to build actual mass and drink all the protein/bulk/mass building rubbish they drink and pop pills for.

Going to gym sure makes you stand out as a cyclist though, I'm as oddly tanned as a twin pole icy pole.
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby schwing » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:38 am

The title sort of suggests Body Building , but I think you are aiming at strength and body balance.
Body builders have bulk - that wont help your cycling much at least over distance
Look at bodyweight exercises - push ups of varying kinds, chin ups, planks, leg raises, burpees.
MMA circuits? with dumbells
All give muscularity and functional endurance strength
These exercised alone can give you a muscular upper body - doubtful..... look at male gymnasts,
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby biftek » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:20 am

Mrfenejeans wrote:
Eleri wrote:...I do a bit of upper body and core strength training, but not with the aim of building bulk. More just to maintain a balanced body and with the most focus on core. ...


+1

My main goal is to have some upper body and core strength, and give my legs a different work out, i went through a stage as a teenager wanting big arms etc, but that has gone by the wayside now that I cycle, as long as you are sensible and don't do the training required to build actual mass and drink all the protein/bulk/mass building rubbish they drink and pop pills for.

Going to gym sure makes you stand out as a cyclist though, I'm as oddly tanned as a twin pole icy pole.


myth myth , no matter your training your muscles still need protien to develop whether it is your legs or upper body , bodyweight or iron, protien is the building block of muscles , drinking protien shakes wont magically put on mass protien is already in our foods, only reason weight trainers take pills or protien shakes is for supplementation of the diet , either not eating enough or can't eat enough so you supplement it with pills and protien shakes, not all weighttrainers/body builders take supplements , it comes down to controlling your diet , if you don't want to put on muscle mass you use a calorie controlled diet but that pretty much makes your training a waste of time(either cycling or lifting iron)
more info see http://www.ausbb.com or here http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2012/04/p ... -cyclists/

as i said getting huge doesn't happen over night , it takes years and good genes to get huge
Last edited by biftek on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:27 am

rabobank89 wrote:Do any of you guys mix strength training with cycling?


Only bodyweight stuff. Incidentally, as a baseline, see how many continuous pushups and pulls up you can do, before starting your strength training. I've met a lot of buff guys who cannot bang out 50+ pushups and 15+ pull ups.
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby boss » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:00 am

winstonw wrote:
rabobank89 wrote:Do any of you guys mix strength training with cycling?


Only bodyweight stuff. Incidentally, as a baseline, see how many continuous pushups and pulls up you can do, before starting your strength training. I've met a lot of buff guys who cannot bang out 50+ pushups and 15+ pull ups.


Measuring performance on high-rep, bodyweight stuff is more an indication of conditioning and strength-to-weight, is it not?

If you are aiming at losing weight, gaining muscle, then the above suggestion would be a great baseline.

If you are aiming at developing muscle on an already slim body... the above baseline is potentially meaningless isn't it? I mean, shouldn't your baseline be relevant to whatever your program is going to be?

I don't know much about fitness other than self-learnings, so I'm happy to stand corrected. Just thinking out loud really!

Back to the original point of the thread. My main upper body exercises are chin ups, pushups, and planks for core strength. Each day I do two planks (AT) 1 minute, and every other day I will do 40-60 chinups (sets of 10) and 70-100 pushups (Sets of 20-30).

I'm not fussed about appearance at all, I just like to be active and stay in shape. My genes dictate I will never be a muscleman!
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby Mrfenejeans » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:31 am

biftek wrote:
Mrfenejeans wrote:Going to gym sure makes you stand out as a cyclist though, I'm as oddly tanned as a twin pole icy pole.


...myth ...


I'll have you know sir my Tan lines are no myth. :lol:



I may not have made it clear enough in my original post biftek but i was also implying the other supplements gym junkies take(such as creatine) to build muscle mass not just protein.
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby biftek » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:04 pm

Mrfenejeans wrote:
biftek wrote:
Mrfenejeans wrote:Going to gym sure makes you stand out as a cyclist though, I'm as oddly tanned as a twin pole icy pole.


...myth ...


I'll have you know sir my Tan lines are no myth. :lol:



I may not have made it clear enough in my original post biftek but i was also implying the other supplements gym junkies take(such as creatine) to build muscle mass not just protein.

Creatine is naturally found in various kinds of meat. The highest levels are in beef, There is scientific evidence that short term creatine use can increase maximum power and performance in high-intensity anaerobic repetitive work
http://www.cptips.com/creatine.htm
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby Mrfenejeans » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:23 pm

http://www.cptips.com/creatine.htm wrote:BICYCLING SPECIFIC STUDIES
There have been at least 8 good studies on the effects of creatine supplementation on cycling performance - and with conflicting results. A quick review of the literature turned up 9 contolled studies with 4 indicating a positive effect, and 5 demonstrating no benefit.

Although there is tantalizing evidence that creatine supplements may benefit single and repetitive sprint performance in events of 15 to 30 seconds duration, this is far from proven. And there is no evidence to support its use in cycling events lasting more than a minute.

THE BOTTOM LINE (FACT VS FICTION)

-although there is tantalizing evidence that creatine supplements may benefit single and repetitive sprint performance in events of up to 15 to 30 seconds (and even several minutes in a rare report) duration, this is far from proven and there is no evidence to support its use in cycling events lasting more than a minute...

...
-creatine supplementation leads to weight gain within the first few days, likely due to water retention
...


:?
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby winstonw » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:49 pm

jimboss wrote:If you are aiming at developing muscle on an already slim body... the above baseline is potentially meaningless isn't it? I mean, shouldn't your baseline be relevant to whatever your program is going to be?


Yes, bodyweight exercise is relevant to bodyweight. Though it is a good place to start doing strength work. As one improves, they can don a day back with added weights.

If rabobank does >6 hours a week on the bike at moderate to higher intensity, he won't retain upper body muscularity developed in a gym doing 3-8 reps/set. The higher the ride intensity, the higher the % lean tissue broken down for amino acid energy source.

For strength, imo he is better doing functionally meaningful compound bodyweight exercise.
Building bulk for a particular look in the mirror is incompatible with endurance cycling.

If he thinks his upper body is too small, it might be due to too small a rib cage. In this case, I'd recommend he gets his rib cage mobilized and take up swimming.
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby rabobank89 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:12 pm

Thanks guys for the help.

winstonw wrote:
jimboss wrote:If you are aiming at developing muscle on an already slim body... the above baseline is potentially meaningless isn't it? I mean, shouldn't your baseline be relevant to whatever your program is going to be?


Yes, bodyweight exercise is relevant to bodyweight. Though it is a good place to start doing strength work. As one improves, they can don a day back with added weights.

If rabobank does >6 hours a week on the bike at moderate to higher intensity, he won't retain upper body muscularity developed in a gym doing 3-8 reps/set. The higher the ride intensity, the higher the % lean tissue broken down for amino acid energy source.

For strength, imo he is better doing functionally meaningful compound bodyweight exercise.
Building bulk for a particular look in the mirror is incompatible with endurance cycling.

If he thinks his upper body is too small, it might be due to too small a rib cage. In this case, I'd recommend he gets his rib cage mobilized and take up swimming.


Fantastic advice Winston.. :)
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby biftek » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:21 pm

Mrfenejeans wrote:
http://www.cptips.com/creatine.htm wrote:BICYCLING SPECIFIC STUDIES
There have been at least 8 good studies on the effects of creatine supplementation on cycling performance - and with conflicting results. A quick review of the literature turned up 9 contolled studies with 4 indicating a positive effect, and 5 demonstrating no benefit.

Although there is tantalizing evidence that creatine supplements may benefit single and repetitive sprint performance in events of 15 to 30 seconds duration, this is far from proven. And there is no evidence to support its use in cycling events lasting more than a minute.

THE BOTTOM LINE (FACT VS FICTION)

-although there is tantalizing evidence that creatine supplements may benefit single and repetitive sprint performance in events of up to 15 to 30 seconds (and even several minutes in a rare report) duration, this is far from proven and there is no evidence to support its use in cycling events lasting more than a minute...

...
-creatine supplementation leads to weight gain within the first few days, likely due to water retention
...


:?


not a huge weight gain
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby Crowz » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:16 pm

Just remember, every day is chest day.
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby skull » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:44 pm

Crowz wrote:Just remember, every day is chest day.

And curls get the girls.

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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby Crowz » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:11 pm

skull wrote:
Crowz wrote:Just remember, every day is chest day.

And curls get the girls.

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I didn't think I'd have to mention it, but a couple sets of curls at the end of a workout isn't exactly optional.
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby winstonw » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:08 am

rabobank89 wrote:Fantastic advice Winston.. :)


Note the abstract below. Major finding is there's a limit to strength gains when simultaneously doing endurance training.
This bears out that lean tissue is catalysed with endurance exercises, especially lean tissue not used.
________________________________

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7193134

Interference of strength development by simultaneously training for strength and endurance.
Hickson RC.
Abstract

The purpose of this study was to determine how individuals adapt to a combination of strength and endurance training as compared to the adaptations produced by either strength or endurance training separately. There were three exercise groups: a strength group (S) that exercised 30--40 min . day-1, 5 days . week-1, and endurance group (E) that exercised 40 min . day-1, 6 days . week-1; and an S and E group that performed the same daily exercise regimens as the S and E groups. After 10 weeks of training, VO2max increased approx. 25% when measured during bicycle exercise and 20% when measured during treadmill exercise in both E, and S and E groups. No increase in VO2max was observed in the S group. There was a consistent rate of development of leg-strength by the S group throughout the training, whereas the E group did not show any appreciable gains in strength. The rate of strength improvement by the S and E group was similar to the S group for the first 7 weeks of training, but subsequently leveled off and declined during the 9th and 10th weeks. These findings demonstrate that simultaneously training for S and E will result in a reduced capacity to develop strength, but will not affect the magnitude of increase in VO2max.
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby maybolem » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:21 am

Do compound rather than isolated exercises. I personally use gymanstic roman rings for upper torso and back area, and then a swiss ball for my lower back and abdominal area. Look up any work out program using this equipment on the net, and it is fool proof. Just watch how fast you progress with the ring, with gravity in the equation, unexperienced users may strain or dislocate something.
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby clydesmcdale » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:32 am

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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby biftek » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:44 am

clydesmcdale wrote:Image


hugh jackman is the same ,good upper body , but lucky legs , they are twigs
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Re: Building Upper Body

Postby AP81 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:34 pm

rabobank89 wrote:Hey guys,

I'm going to start training with my brother who's a body builder to build my upper body mass but I'm concerned how that may impact cycling.

Do any of you guys mix strength training with cycling?

Most cyclists I see are slim stick things and most others are older men with guts, rarely do I see cyclists with a muscular upper body..


FACT, to bulk, you need calories. Lots of them. Most guys I train with are eating in the 3500 to 4000+ calorie range for maintenance...bulking phase, sometimes more. Unless you are gifted genetic freak, train whatever you want, but take into account you won't do much bulking unless you up your calories consistently. Ever wonder why some guys train day in, day out and look the same? Not enough calories..

There is also a point where prolonged aerobic exercise hinders muscle gains, as someone else previously mentioned.

However, a 2-3 kg (pure) muscle gain in the upper body would be noticeable by other people.
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