Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

Just a quick note, and I find this topic quite interesting.

I had a quick discussion with a nutritionist at the AIS last year. At the time it was winter and I was doing weekend rides along with heavy weights 2 days and hard sprint turbo sessions 1-2 days. I was taking WPI after weights and the turbo sessions and it was greatly assisting in my recovery. Living with wife and 2 kids, I was not keen on doing all my own meals, so just fitting in with the family lifestyle I knew my diet wasn't nicely balanced, though I tried where I could.

Anyhow, onto the point, after quizing the nutritionist about my use of WPI, she suggested I reduce my intake. The recommended dose was 30g protein. Current studies at the time had been suggesting that protein usage my the body tapered off after 19g. So according to what they were seeing, I was essentially wasting 30% of what I was using. Since then I have cut back and now the WPI is even more economical for me. The uptake didn't really vary either depending on the type of athlete they were testing. I haven't followed up on any of this and not sure if there will be any results thrown out there.

Note, this was for post exercise consumption, and was not related to total daily protein uptake.

winstonw wrote:Yes sir! I often wonder why the AIS doesnt just read cycling andbodybuilding forums. Team sky may have done better if it just listned to Twizzle.

brawlo wrote:Just a quick note, and I find this topic quite interesting.

THe nutritionist was presumably following AIS guidelines, which are 15-25g Pro in the first hour post exercise.
She may have suggested a bit extra (30g) if you are a bigger guy.

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http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... _nutrition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

stinhambo wrote:Hey Zep, do you think eating tinned tuna is suitable for decent protein intake?

I can't do moderation either. If there are doughnuts on offer then I'll eat the lot! I've actually fallen off the wagon a little lately which is most likely an over reaction to being good about food and exercise.

Back on we hop and hopefully I can sustain it for longer!

Sorry for not replying earlier. Ok tinned Tuna.......here we go. First of all I'm a Vegan & you're killing a fish, but that's not the question so I'll move on now that I've let that one off the hook.

Popular belief has always gone down the track that protein from Tuna/Salmon is low in saturated fat & contains omega3 oils. So from that aspect it looks good in comparison to Chicken (hormone induced), Beef(saturated animal fat)Eggs (high cholesterol) & Dairy (puss filled, mucus infected calf raising fluid + fat & sugar). Can you tell I really like dairy products ?

Then there's this thing called mercury poisoning. Unfortunately the oceans (apparently) only have about 10% of their original fish stocks left from decades of over fishing. The oceans have also had to endure a constant bombardment of pollution from mining, power stations(coal) & whatever else we throw into the air which eventually finds its way into the oceans as Methylmercury.

It all starts with Krill (tiny little sea creatures) which are eaten in large quantities by slightly larger fish (& whales, but lets not go there). The larger the fish or the further up the chain the higher the mercury poisoning. Tuna are fairly large & it is recommended to only eat it once or twice a week max. Salmon on the other hand are much smaller but are often farmed in tanks & feed lots of crap to make them grow fatter/faster. A bit like chickens. So uummmmm yer eat it at your own peril.

BTW --I ate salad & Salmon, flavored Salmon & Atlantic Salmon steaks every day for about 18 months & lost about 20 kg in the process. That was after I gave up eating pork, beef & chicken in that order. Fish & dairy were the last two things to go which is where I'm at today.............a Vegan nutter. Geeeezzzz were we talking about protein supplements ?? Sorry TLL

My diet is 90% tuna and brown rice, kangaroo meat, and greens.

Been like that for so many years now that I'm used to the taste and smell

Saturday I have my cheat foods with a few guys from my gym, and then straight back on the horse after that.

winstonw wrote:

brawlo wrote:Just a quick note, and I find this topic quite interesting.

THe nutritionist was presumably following AIS guidelines, which are 15-25g Pro in the first hour post exercise.
She may have suggested a bit extra (30g) if you are a bigger guy.

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... -_how_much" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... _nutrition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This was what they were finding in a study they were undertaking at the time. No concrete results, just trending data at the time. The 19g seemed to be irrespective of what type of exercise was done (weights/cardio/etc) and person's physical size. That was strictly post exercise uptake too. Don't take it as any more than that.

The 30g was the recommended dose that was on the WPI packet.

Are we are heading into a "helmet thread" except we are actually communicating information.

I'm thinking about that 30gm recommendation on the protein powder packet. Now if I use the common maximum calculation for body builders, its 2.2gms per Kilo of lean body mass. Now I think I weighed 78.something KG last time I weighed myself. I'll guess my fat at being 10% so my lean body mass is 78kg - 10% = about 71kg. Multiply 2.2 * 71 = 156.2gms per day. Divide 156.2 by 6 = 26gms, which is still under the 30gms recommendation and there's a number of problems with this calculation;

1. 1. 6 intakes a day is difficult, that means an intake every 4 hours, so set your alarm for 2am, suck it in and go back to sleep.
2. 2.2gms is really an upper limit. 99% of us need much much less
3. There is a limit to how much protein the body can ingest in a single meal
4. There is no factor in the calculation for the amount of muscle repair required, which will vary considerbly with the type and intensity of activity

Add to that the possibility of other protein being present when the protein shake is consumed, for example if taken with milk. It would seem to me that the 30gms recommendation is over the top. By using the most favorable calcuations I cannot get to a 30gms recommendation.

It would seem to me that the need is closer to 15gms, but I'd need to do more calcs to determine that.

Given the discussions about what happens to the excess protein, that being if it is expelled, then it would be good marketing of sorts. You need to buy more protein sooner, and thus spend more. From what I have learnt, my protein will now last me 50% longer. That is going to be a long time. I only use it after hard sessions. I have stopped with weights while the season is running as I'm on the bike 6 days a week with track and road. Amongst that are 3 really hard days and I have the protein after those workouts/races. Trial and error on my part shows it works for me.

Truly a 1st world problem!

MarkG wrote:..snip....and then straight back on the horse after that.

A great visual in a discussion regarding protein consumption

I've eaten horse before!

MarkG wrote:I've eaten horse before!

Ah, yes, I remember Four'n'Twenty pies in the bad old days, Mark!

hahaha -

the irony is, a pie would be so much better for you if they swapped what they call 'meat' with horse

I can't stand pies - truly disgusting and so full of fat and processed crap.

I bought horse burgers for the kids by mistake once... couldn't face cooking it. Neighbour's dog is my best friend these days .

I remember when I first started body building, ie not just working out, but doing it to compete, and I got put on the kangaroo meat as it's 99% protein and not much else.
At first, the thought of eating Skippy, in the form of kanga bangas, burger patties or mini roast made me tremor, but fast forward 16 years and I love it.
People say it's quite gamey, but you add some hot sauce and it's fine.

In fact - here's skippy with some green beans and onions!

Roo got some bad press a while back over the management of the meat post shooting. Suppose they would of cleaned up the industry since then

6 months ago I joined a personal training studio and lost 25kg in 4 months. Kanga Bangas where one of the great low fat, low carb, high protein meals and are delicious. You need to cook them slowly on medium heat due to the low fat content they take a while. Same can't be said about the steaks though, they are awful IMO. I'd say the mincing of the meat and adding a few spices and salt made all the difference with the sausages.

Be careful with what protein powder you buy unless you are a skinny runt (no offence meant!) and need to bulk up as many of them are quite high in carbs (and some fat). For example Musashi 'Bulk'. If you are after a low carb low fat protein I can recommend Musashi ISO8, Dymatize ISO100 and Goliath Labs Isolate Protein. These 3 are the better Isolate proteins, not concentrates and actually taste ok too. Not quite Milo, but not as bad as some of the protein powders. I prefer the lower carb and fat powders as I can fill up on them without being concerned about the carbs and keep better track of carbs and fat with the foods I eat.

I buy the Chocolate and Vanilla, the Chocolate is used when I am having it as a shake, the Vanilla is used when adding to porridge, smoothies etc. Yum!

Pure protein wont make you fat. Muscle milk is what I used to sell to skinny guys. Basically its a maccas thickshake with some egg albumen.

MarkG wrote: snip>>>> but you add some hot sauce and it's fine.<<<<snip

Thought provoking statement.

I read a book recently covering that very act.........disguising tastes.

Taste is also acquired. If you migrate you diet over time, your taste also migrates

No doubt!