Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby durianrider » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:40 pm

Lactic acid. Happens when you are really fresh and riding on your limit or above. Sometimes your tongue feels like its being gripped tightly by pliers for a minute. I don't get it after a really long 2hr solid warm up though. Usually its the first effort after a few days recovery that you get it.

PS: Its no ketosis lol!
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by BNA » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:16 pm

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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby jpgibson » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:16 pm

I've had the same ( bloody taste).I am medically qualified.Not that that means anything! I think its very mild pulmonary oedema or rupture of a pulmonary capillary from a very high cardiac output. With me , it's definately a blood taste.Never cough anything up though!I'm not worried about it ( and I worry about lots of things).
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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby brentono » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:23 pm

jpgibson wrote:I've had the same ( bloody taste).I am medically qualified.Not that that means anything! I think its very mild pulmonary oedema or rupture of a pulmonary capillary from a very high cardiac output. With me , it's definately a blood taste.Never cough anything up though!I'm not worried about it ( and I worry about lots of things).


As stated "some of the blood cells themselves are pushed through the alveolar walls,
which you then breathe out as an aerosol and taste on your tongue."
You don't actually see the blood, it's just the taste.
If you did cough up blood, being medically qualified, you'd know, you have a problem, yes. :o
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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby durianrider » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:41 pm

jpgibson wrote:I've had the same ( bloody taste).I am medically qualified.Not that that means anything! I think its very mild pulmonary oedema or rupture of a pulmonary capillary from a very high cardiac output. With me , it's definately a blood taste.Never cough anything up though!I'm not worried about it ( and I worry about lots of things).


I disagree its rupturing of any pulmonary capillaries as if you have no recovery days and just keep hitting it at high watts per kg then you won't get 'lactic tongue'.

I can take a week off the bike and hit it hard out of the drive way for 15 seconds and breathing and heart rate havent even kicked in but I can get 'lactic tongue'.
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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby twizzle » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:59 pm

durianrider wrote:
jpgibson wrote:I've had the same ( bloody taste).I am medically qualified.Not that that means anything! I think its very mild pulmonary oedema or rupture of a pulmonary capillary from a very high cardiac output. With me , it's definately a blood taste.Never cough anything up though!I'm not worried about it ( and I worry about lots of things).


I disagree its rupturing of any pulmonary capillaries as if you have no recovery days and just keep hitting it at high watts per kg then you won't get 'lactic tongue'.

I can take a week off the bike and hit it hard out of the drive way for 15 seconds and breathing and heart rate havent even kicked in but I can get 'lactic tongue'.


Ummmm.... so I should just read that as "I disagree, but without any kind of rational explanation?"


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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby brentono » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:51 am

I am not medically qualified (but have had emergency medical training)
But, personally think the term 'lactic tongue' has no general use, and defies logic.
Lactic Acid builds up in muscle tissue, from my understanding.
10-things-you-should-know-about-lactic-acid
Therefore we can only assume one can get 'lactic tongue' from wagging it too much. :P
But, you may still disagree D.R. :D
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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby durianrider » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:01 pm

# The tongue is full of muscles to move it. It can have lactate pumping thru it.

# I don't have an definite explanation for the mouth taste/tongue pain some people experience when they do a hit out with fresh legs. Im thinking its got to do with lactate and buffering systems. I call it 'lactate tongue'. Its not the clinical term for it.

Yet. :wink:
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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby vander » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:32 pm

durianrider wrote:# The tongue is full of muscles to move it. It can have lactate pumping thru it.

# I don't have an definite explanation for the mouth taste/tongue pain some people experience when they do a hit out with fresh legs. Im thinking its got to do with lactate and buffering systems. I call it 'lactate tongue'. Its not the clinical term for it.

Yet. :wink:


Lactate will only build up in the tongue muscles when those muscles are being worked so unless you are going absolutely crazy with your tongue during the exercise it will not often build up there. Lactate buffering system is in the blood which admittadly goes all throughout the body but I dont think it would be the cause for your lactate tongue.

I also find it hard to believe blood cells would make it across the the membrane between the BV and the lungs (not saying its impossible just would not be even close to my first hypothosis). The blood vessels could rupture resulting in bleeds into the lungs as some have suggested but again I would find that highly unlikely to have the blood pressure high enough for that but not causing any other problems.

It would be interesting to find out what it was however. Personally I throw up or get an asthma attack before getting the metallic taste so I cant say I really have a first hand experience of it.
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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby TimW » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:03 pm

Betya this tongue has lactate :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby greyhoundtom » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:40 pm

The best explanation I have read so far.
Taste in mouth when exercising
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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:43 pm

greyhoundtom wrote:The best explanation I have read so far.
Taste in mouth when exercising

Odd, no mention of EPO use... :?
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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby brentono » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:34 am

As we have already pointed out, without getting TOO technical.

Livestrong: BLOOD-GAS BARRIER ...this condition is not unusual when athletes push too hard.
It's considered normal unless you produce blood when you cough.


Particularly noticed it under extra heavy exertion on the Track, or in a Criterium,
especially at high temperatures, especially in the day, when there is less oxygen in the air,
at which point your metabolism is over heating and it's actually a result
of the alveoli in your lungs being overtaxed; in their hurry to transfer CO2
back out of your blood stream, some of the blood cells themselves
are pushed through the alveolar walls,
which you then breathe out as an aerosol and taste on your tongue.
I'm no Doctor, but these were my experiences. Nothing to worry about.


As per the OP Dr.M-
•pulmonary vessel congestion due to substantially increased cardiac outputs and pulmonary pressures,
resulting in leakage of blood across the alveolar membrane into the smaller airways.

And much the same as Jpgibson stated.

It's fairly common, if you push yourself HARD enough (most here may never experience it) :P
Think that's pretty well covered it
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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby twizzle » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:51 am

Mulger bill wrote:
greyhoundtom wrote:The best explanation I have read so far.
Taste in mouth when exercising

Odd, no mention of EPO use... :?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby vander » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:25 pm

brentono wrote:
Livestrong: BLOOD-GAS BARRIER ...this condition is not unusual when athletes push too hard.
It's considered normal unless you produce blood when you cough.


Wouldnt quote livestrong for anything anymore they have no credibility. In saying that, seems like this may be the case is definitely plausible I think for most people it will be sweat they are tasting.
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Re: Causes of the blood taste on hard efforts

Postby brentono » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:03 am

Vander,
It was actually G.T. who found the explanation, the best, from Livestrong.
My thought was that the point of the BLOOD-GAS BARRIER (which is what we are discussing)
and the quote "It's considered normal unless you produce blood when you cough" was
consistant with what I was saying, and if you had of checked the link, you would find it came
from 1997 Research published by "American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine"
You point about sweat is possible (it may enter the mouth) but not the cause of the blood taste.
Cheers
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