A really interesting speech on obesity

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casual_cyclist
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:03 pm

durianrider wrote:What I find interesting about this thread is the amount of hijacking people hiding behind fake avatars have tried to do to the person (me) who is actually transparent enough to provide his real name and photo.

Can we please keep this thread on topic vs hijack it by trying to discredit the only person willing to put his hand up and stand for something openly?

No, because you are a troll but you deny it. I have proof that you are actually a real life troll.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9_-KhGNNQ
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:05 pm

matagi wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:Cheers. I feel much better. The funny thing is that I don't miss all that junk that I used to eat, except apple crumble which I still occasionally eat. I prefer the taste of real food. It actually has amazing flavours!

Growing up with parents who were Southern European immigrants, I only ever knew the taste of real food. As I child, I remember dad going to the Queen Victoria Markets and coming home with boxes of fruit - we ate that much of it in summer. We also had an extensive vegie garden.

I think I was lucky to grow up like that because I never really developed a taste for sweet stuff. Even the cakes and biscuits we ate were home made, baked by my mother and sisters and made with less sugar than the store bought versions. They also only baked when we were expecting visitors, which meant cakes and biscuits were occasional treats.

I still live like that, which is probably the only reason I am not obese, because I can see how easy it would be to pack on the weight if I didn't pay attention to what goes into my body.

That is a good upbringing and I'm glad to hear you stuck with it. It's interesting that I was pretty much raised that way too but also to overeat at most meals. This was a bad habit once I hit the junk food. Junk food + overeating = obesity (from personal experience). To conquer my health issues I first had to learn not to overeat and then to eat decent food.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby Toolish » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:46 pm

durianrider wrote:
twizzle wrote:Joe Friel eats a high carb low fat diet. Just do a youtube search on it.

Loren Cordain is on the fast track to obesity. Not sure he is to be taken serious when giving weight loss and health advice.

Here is a video covering it point by point. So Joe Friel is lean. Eats high carb low fat. Loren Cordain is overweight. Eats high fat low carb. Robert Lustig is overweight. Eats high fat low carb.


Vinnie Tortorich eats low carb high fat and is lean. Rich Roll eats vegan, high carb and is lean...pointing out individual people is irrelevant.

You accept that you B12 issues are genetic, yet you can't accept that people may need different diets based on their genetics and what they have done in their life so far.

Maybe your time as a drug addict has had a long term affect on your metabolism?
Maybe my time trying to eat low fat and eating a lot of sugars and carbs has created an insulin resistance in my body?
Maybe there is more to it than we all realise. I am one of 5 siblings, 4 of us are a little overweight my other sister struggles to put weight on. We all have the same genetics, grew up eating similar foods, but she has a totally different body shape.

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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby winstonw » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:13 pm

twizzle wrote:Oh, O.K., I'll get in a last comment then.

If anyone wants to read up the input on my POV, read Joe Friel's stuff in "the cyclist training bible", Friel/Cordain's "The Paleo Diet for Athletes", "The Smarter Science of Slim" and "Breaking the vicious cycle". All point roughly in the same direction - a lot of what we eat is bad for us, because we don't process it well and it can lead to major health issues. What people eat is up to them, but having a general understanding of digestion can't hurt. And Cordain's view of "suitability of foods" makes sense to me, so I lean in that direction. I need around 16,000Kj's a day, it's pretty hard to achieve this without grains unless you eat a lot of meat as well.


Thanks Mods. I am LMAO here....everybody have a piece of fruit.

Twizz, if anyone wants to read up on my POV, :shock:

- go study what the AIS recommends to elite athletes, or go see an AIS trained dietitian. Is it ok to make that recommendation Mods? or is sports science consensus inferior to the views of populist diet authors?
The AIS publish a lot of info for free on the net, and to parallel several posters above in their criticism of John McDougall, are not out to make a million from book sales and outlandish and controversial statements, like Loren Cordain and whichever co-authors he partners with.

- then go read 50 years of diet literature, and take note of which groups have lower rates of the morbidity that plagues Western civilization.

Ah look....I realize I am being unreasonable Twiz in what my POV is based on....So let's say, just forget it....don't bother...let's just all do our own thing....and let Charlie Darwin sort it. Eat as many barbecued and grilled kangabangas as you like, and I'll do green smoothies and brown rice.

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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:48 am

vander wrote:Oh and can you stop saying things about the people that make these diets they probably dont care too much about their weight. I have seen cardiopulmonary doctors smoking does that mean they are a bad doctor (after all they are doing one of the worst things they can for their cardiopulmonary system) NO. Would you not get coached by a fat/unfit coach, because he must not know anything about training because he is overweight/unfit, ofcourse not. What the people themselves are and how they act is not a representation of their knowledge.


totally agreed. But Durian is wired such that he will still used illogic while thinking everyone else's arguments are broken.

Beside, just because he introduced the irrelevancy of the girdle, there is nothing to indicate that Ludwig does wear a girdle.

Well, nothing except that Durian has stated it. But that has zero value. With a constant record of padding with irrelevant "facts" that are at best uncheckable or more commonly not previoulsy mentioned anywhere else on the planet. As soon a statement like
The OP quotes Robert Lustig's youtube video. Not only is Robert Lustig overweight (apparently wears a corset under his suit during presentations) but he fails to acknowledge the science out there.
comes from him I assume it is just another of his porkies.

Care to give a source for Lustig's girdle Durian? While you are at it how about some detail and source of your world championship. :roll: (It was mountain biking wasn't it?) And a few other of the many races that you have claimed. Even the odd finish would be more than I have seen so far. :lol:
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby ZepinAtor » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:04 am

Just a comparison from where I sit.

I lost 25kg on an improved diet of small amounts of fruit, heaps of veges, Salmon & chicken occasionally. My main focus was on cutting out MSG & sugar which worked a treat. Lost a crap load of weight/size from 110kg down to 85kg (185cm tall) a 38" waist to a 32".

After doing a fair amount of reading/research I decided to go Vegan low fat, high carb & lower protein to about 80-100g/daily. This has resulted in yet another 5kg of weight loss & a waist measurement of 30".I made this move first of all for ethical reasons which all my mates had a dig at understandably, after I'd just won a steak eating comp prior to this move. Yes you heard right 1kg of steak, 500g of wedges & 500g of veges in less than 30 minutes.........& the winner is Zep in 20 minutes.

I'd align my dietary habits a bit along the lines of Durianrider although minus the crazy videos, ranting & useless comparisons to random speakers. 30 bananas a day is probably possible, but why the heck would you & who recommended it. Dr McDougall gave me most of my insight to this Vegan thingo & Durianrider also aligns himself along with this particular speaker. There is nothing remotely close in Dr McDougalls latest book the Starch Solution to Durians crazy banana fetish.

Sorry Durian, I like your general direction (we Vegans have to stick together) "ALTHOUGH" you lack any credibility with your approach. Ranting, random comparisons, good cycling/running achievements, nice cut abdominals, a million bananas a year, hilarious videos, B12 injections. It's "ALL" just too much for the average punter to swallow. If you calmed down a little & came across a little more rationally people may pay attention in the right vain & actually listen to you.

I have a couple of friends who are following the Paleo path & are clearly not as successful as I am in the weight loss & leanness race. (If there was a race that is). One is failing dismally & the other struggles at times, but I'd bet if we swapped diets the results would stay the same. I would do well on the Paleo diet & they would gain weight on the Vegan diet. I say this because they are slackers & not strict with their routine. I on the other hand want to be a supermodel & am about as strict as they come without being stupid.

I feel a dedicated person can succeed on any good quality diet as long as they practice what they preach & don't "push" it onto others as the "ONLY" solution.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby twizzle » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:35 am

<deleted - I refuse to lower myself further into winstons mud>

Edit: Spellung. :roll:
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby Venus62 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:51 am

ZepinAtor wrote:I feel a dedicated person can succeed on any good quality diet as long as they practice what they preach & don't "push" it onto others as the "ONLY" solution.


And thus the thread exploded in a puff of logic.

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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby Venus62 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:59 am

An interesting article about obsessive banana consumption.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17194559

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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:14 am

Venus62 wrote:
ZepinAtor wrote:I feel a dedicated person can succeed on any good quality diet as long as they practice what they preach & don't "push" it onto others as the "ONLY" solution.


And thus the thread exploded in a puff of logic.

Damn, I couldn't help LOLing, thanks Venus. If you ever find yourself in need of a spare towel... :D
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby winstonw » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:15 am

ZepinAtor wrote:I feel a dedicated person can succeed on any good quality diet as long as they practice what they preach & don't "push" it onto others as the "ONLY" solution.


How many kangabangas in a good quality diet Zep? :?

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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby Venus62 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:23 am

Mulger bill wrote:
Venus62 wrote:
ZepinAtor wrote:I feel a dedicated person can succeed on any good quality diet as long as they practice what they preach & don't "push" it onto others as the "ONLY" solution.


And thus the thread exploded in a puff of logic.

Damn, I couldn't help LOLing, thanks Venus. If you ever find yourself in need of a spare towel... :D


:D :D

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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby sogood » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:33 am

casual_cyclist wrote:No, because you are a troll but you deny it. I have proof that you are actually a real life troll.

QED! :mrgreen:
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:48 am

Venus62 wrote:An interesting article about obsessive banana consumption.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17194559

Amazing! Nice find.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby Wakatuki » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:01 am

durianrider wrote: Need lots of carbs to keep the brain working properly.

You're not getting enough. :P

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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby JohnJoyner » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:48 am

Venus62 wrote:
ZepinAtor wrote:I feel a dedicated person can succeed on any good quality diet as long as they practice what they preach & don't "push" it onto others as the "ONLY" solution.


And thus the thread exploded in a puff of logic.


+1.

Too funny Venus. Coffee spat across the computer. :lol:
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:51 pm

JohnJoyner wrote:
Venus62 wrote:
ZepinAtor wrote:I feel a dedicated person can succeed on any good quality diet as long as they practice what they preach & don't "push" it onto others as the "ONLY" solution.

And thus the thread exploded in a puff of logic.

+1.
Too funny Venus. Coffee spat across the computer. :lol:

I LOLed too. Lucky I wasn't drinking coffee... :lol:
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby Venus62 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:02 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:I LOLed too. Lucky I wasn't drinking coffee... :lol:


Well that's a relief! I don't want to be responsible for the destruction of too much computer equipment! :lol:

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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:53 pm

Do you think how an author looks is a relevant criteria for selecting a lifestyle plan?

Nutrition expert and health activist Christine Cronau tells us why reducing dietary fat actually makes us fat, sick and even depressed!


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Ok, she looks slim but are you suddenly going to start eating a lot of saturated fat because of that? Christine says:

As you can see from my photos, fat can’t make you fat. I have been eating plenty of fat for the last 10 years.


http://christinecronau.com/food-myths-busted/fat-cant-make-you-fat/

You could say, well, it works for her so I will start eating like our ancestors:

The real foods accessible by our ancestors were meat, vegetables, eggs, butter, and unpasteurised milk products (mostly cultured).

http://christinecronau.com/food-myths-busted/fat-cant-make-you-fat/

I have not read her books so I don't know if what she is claiming is supported by decent evidence or not. My point is that just because a person looks slim or healthy doesn't mean they are and isn't the basis for selecting a lifestyle.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby durianrider » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:10 pm

Venus62 wrote:An interesting article about obsessive banana consumption.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17194559



Err. Umm. This patient had anorexia. Eating only 20 bananas a day maximum is going to have you anorexic in no time. I would never recommend any adult consume so little calories/one fruit for 2 years exclusively.

Doesnt matter what you eat, if you are anorexic your electrolytes and dopamine levels are going to be out of whack. As are a lot of things.

Using anorexics as a beacon of how to eat is pretty sad. Its a mental illness and not something to be made fun of.

How about use healthy people like myself, Doug Graham etc as examples. Using sick individuals as an example of why fruit is unhealthy is really low.

My gf eats a fruit based vegan diet for many years. Lost a stack of weight. Her fitness is at an all time high now.

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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby durianrider » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:43 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:Do you think how an author looks is a relevant criteria for selecting a lifestyle plan?

Nutrition expert and health activist Christine Cronau tells us why reducing dietary fat actually makes us fat, sick and even depressed!


Image

Ok, she looks slim but are you suddenly going to start eating a lot of saturated fat because of that? Christine says:

As you can see from my photos, fat can’t make you fat. I have been eating plenty of fat for the last 10 years.


http://christinecronau.com/food-myths-busted/fat-cant-make-you-fat/

You could say, well, it works for her so I will start eating like our ancestors:

The real foods accessible by our ancestors were meat, vegetables, eggs, butter, and unpasteurised milk products (mostly cultured).

http://christinecronau.com/food-myths-busted/fat-cant-make-you-fat/

I have not read her books so I don't know if what she is claiming is supported by decent evidence or not. My point is that just because a person looks slim or healthy doesn't mean they are and isn't the basis for selecting a lifestyle.


Christine promotes a ketogenic diet. Basically she says you have to be in a state of ketosis if you want to lose weight. Ever riden too far without eating enough carbs and got dizzy and light headed? That was ketosis.

Christine doesnt look like that in real life. She starved for that photo and its obviously a bit photo shopped. I saw her in Brisbane last year and she wasnt fat but she did have quite a bloated belly going on and edema in her ankles.Her jawline had disappeared. Ketoacidosis anyone? How about heart disease, stroke and increased cancer risk? Not me. I will stick with my plate full of unlimited carbs thanks.

Starvation diets never appeal to me. Christine sells a lot of books by telling nutritionally ignorant people good things about their bad habits. 'Exercise aint needed! Eat more bacon, eggs and lard people!'.
Last edited by durianrider on Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby matagi » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:51 pm

Spotted this in The Age:

http://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/proo ... 2ervg.html

I've always wondered about the effect of energy expended in digestion on the overall calorie content of food - seems others have been thinking along the same lines.

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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby durianrider » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:53 pm

Ive also put my latest blood tests today on my youtube channel. I won't post a link as there is explicit language.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby durianrider » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:12 pm

Wakatuki wrote:
durianrider wrote:
Wakatuki wrote:All this is really making me crave carbs.............. ARRRGHGHGHGHhhhhhhhhh.

I'm starting to cheat ... I did for the first time in 8 months have a banana, it has made me so carb hungry it's unbelievable. Back to self control and will power again.
Wish me luck. :D



I had 16 bananas this morning for breakfast blended with a liter of water and 200g of organic coconut sugar. I was so sweet my brix refractometer couldnt even read it!

I hear lard and olive oil blended with chicken bones tastes really nice Wakatuki. Lots of healthy fats. Stay away from them carbs remember, you might get a 19BMI like me! :wink:


I actually had two thin; flash BBQ grilled Scotch fillets with 2 poached eggs and spinach. For nibbles at 10am I had the other scotch fillet that I cooked at the same time, I ate that cold. Then for lunch a garden salad with a small amount of mayo and a piece of wood smoked Salmon. Just had some pastrami slices to stave off the 3:30's. I will be eating Prawn stir-fry for evening meal, with a large glass of white wine.

Now I have spoken to others via PM on this thread, and I respect the diets of everyone. But I have lost 20kg in 6 months, for the first time since 19 years of age I have a 6 pack forming, not puny little ones that bulge under thin skin, but large plates. Something I was not even aiming for. A little muffin to lose around the middle, probably another 5-10kg and judge it at that point. I have gone from running 500 mtrs to running 5k's in 6 months, this has been a hard task, 500mtrs was a killer. I was very, very unfit, even getting light headed climbing a flight of stairs, disgusting. Not set foot in a gym, no training partners, no buddies, no mentors, not spoke to a dietician. Just mental strength and tenacity. I think I have done well.

I am receptive to your ways DR, but preachy just don’t cut it with me, anyone on a hard sell, has something to sell. I have not even bought a book. I see that on YOUR 30 bananas site we have to agree to this and that before we even log on. I tried to get some recipe advice, maybe give it a whirl, but log in you must (you want my details) buy a book you must (you want my card details), some movement this is.. So much for just wanting the best for everyone. Stop shouting and some people may listen more. Just tried your site, its down. But this one is up!http://www.30bananasadaycult.com/ interesting............. As you do seem rather cultesque in your approach.

Also spoke to the GLW about your brix, she is a microbiologist. What range does yours measure? With out his information your statement is pointless.

**edited a typo, from no to now**



Remember bro, if any of those diet book hucksters saw you with a flat tyre on the side of the road they would drive straight past you but I would say 'you ok mate? Need any tyre levers?'. Not many health educators give out free advice on forums. Those that do are the real health educators. The ones that will answer your questions if you see em on the street or at the market vs give you the cold shoulder and keep walking.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:13 pm

durianrider wrote:Christine doesnt look like that in real life. She starved for that photo and its obviously a bit photo shopped. I saw her in Brisbane last year and she wasnt fat but she did have quite a bloated belly going on and edema in her ankles.Her jawline had disappeared.


More of the same. :roll: Durian, you may as well stop reporting these "observations" and "factoids". I imagine that occasionally they are not made up. But mostly so.

I disagree with the ketone job too (Atkins diet is what I know it as) so if this author is promoting more of the same then my starting point is in line with your point. However, adding another "observation" to your ever-increasing mega-list of discredited or unsourced does not hing except to warn me off. Indeed because it came out of the blue from you I do not even accept that the author does promote ketosis . I only have your allegation. How much do you think that is worth?

Besides, this sort of argument may be fine with some of your masses of unthinking accolytes with their predisposed dogmatic positions. But, by and large, and as has been stated many times already, the readers here are heavily disposed to evidence and not impressed by anecdotes. Radical, hey? Go figure.
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