Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby casual_cyclist » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:46 pm

Zynster wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:Example, a meal of rice, sweet potato curry (with chic peas) and veggies isn't really that low carb in the scheme of things.


Compared to a large pizza and 2 litres of Coke? :lol:

Well, one has a lot of calories but virtually no nutrition and the other has less calories but a whole lot more nutrition. A large pizza and 2 litres of coke? I just threw up in my mouth a little bit :lol:
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by BNA » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:01 am

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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:01 am

winstonw wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Was that creak I just heard the sound of the hurtbox opening? Know where my money's on...


a man of conviction hey?.....then phone Cycling Australia's junior development program (may as well contact Team Sky too) and offer them a money back guarantee your diet insights will generate superior performance gains.


What's my food intake got to do with this? Nothing except give you another chance to have a non sequitur go at me, boring. Unlike you, I don't promote myself as some multi disciplinary savant who knows everything about any topic anyone can bring up. Take the time to read my serious posts and you'll find that much of the time, any advice is peppered with IME or IMO. Also unlike you, I am willing to believe that the sum total of the knowledge and experience of the members here is exponentially greater than my own and that no matter how long I live, I will never know it all but that will never stop me trying to learn more from anyone willing to present information in a reasoned and reasonable manner that does not come across similar to the fevered ranting of some oddball religious zealot.

Knowing and having ridden with Parker, I can tell you she is one driven lady (in every sense of the word) with more smarts than you have manners, not that that's too hard, so does Forest Gump.

She rides hard and she climbs well and the only reason she has never dropped me in the first 5 kms is because she's too nice to do that on a friendly. I'd back her against many people in many more endeavours than just riding a bike.

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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby wurtulla wabbit » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:51 am

Got terrible control over a great metabolism. :)
Wife's 40th party tonight
4 bottles of Moët and red bull (try it).

Anyways , I will never be my super lean (para 63sqn) 55kg and ripped as hell again as I like my comfort food and hey,
The British army never paide $155 ph. :D
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby durianrider » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:00 am

casual_cyclist wrote:
durianrider wrote:In India sugar is like 20$ a kg

In India, sugar is Rs.40/kg, equivalent of $0.71 AUD. You really don't have a clue, do you? :roll:

http://www.fnbnews.com/article/detnews.asp?articleid=32930&sectionid=29

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-01-21/pune/36462119_1_sugar-factories-surplus-sugar-sugar-prices



I was being sarcastic. Now please explain why India is such a high consumer of sugar for generations and only now obesity and diabetes is exploding along with their economy and change from a high carb low fat plant based diet to one richer in animal products and fats?

Ive literally travelled around most of the world with my bicycle. Slept in places with locals that spoke no english. Got to see what the slim people eat. Its white rice, fruit, sugar tea, juice. Those that can afford animal products use it very sparingly. More as a condiment than a main. Like the okinawans they too would derive around 1% of their daily calories from animal products.

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Trying to tell me that carbs are fattening and that fatty diets are slimming whilst Im way leaner than you is like telling Dr Ferrari that EPO doesnt work yet you can't even climb at 5 w/kg for 60 seconds. :wink:

Don't mean to be rude but you know what I mean right?

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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby vander » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:28 am

You being skinny doesnt mean anything Durian, its a N=1 experiment. And noone is saying it doesnt work (if done well) they are saying its not necessary! Also it isnt the best way the best way is to eat a variety of foods.

I see you ignored the 5sec peak power questions. I will try again what is your 5sec peak power? (no lieing).
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:17 pm

durianrider wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:
durianrider wrote:In India sugar is like 20$ a kg

In India, sugar is Rs.40/kg, equivalent of $0.71 AUD. You really don't have a clue, do you? :roll:

http://www.fnbnews.com/article/detnews.asp?articleid=32930&sectionid=29

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-01-21/pune/36462119_1_sugar-factories-surplus-sugar-sugar-prices



I was being sarcastic. Now please explain why India is such a high consumer of sugar for generations and only now obesity and diabetes is exploding along with their economy and change from a high carb low fat plant based diet to one richer in animal products and fats?

I won't explain anything to you. a) I don't know that India is a high consumer of sugar for generations. I would have to take your word for it. b) I don't know that obesity and diabetes is exploding. c) I don't know that their diet is changing to one richer in animal products and fats.

For all these hypotheses, I would have to take your word for it. Considering your track record, that would be silly of me.

In the last decades, the consumption of white flour, white sugar, white potatoes, processed meats and sugar sweetened beverages (i.e. soft drink) have spiraled out of control. The rates of obesity and diabetes in India

durianrider wrote:Ive literally travelled around most of the world with my bicycle. Slept in places with locals that spoke no english. Got to see what the slim people eat. Its white rice, fruit, sugar tea, juice.

I don't believe you. You have been demonstrated time and time again to just make up stories to suit your thesis that animal products are the only thing that make people fat.
durianrider wrote:Trying to tell me that carbs are fattening and that fatty diets are slimming

That's not even close to what I am saying. I have never said that carbs are fattening. I have never said that fatty diets are slimming. You really don't have a clue, do you? Why don't you read my posts before having a go at me?

durianrider wrote:Don't mean to be rude but you know what I mean right?

You do mean to be rude. Why don't you just admit it? :lol:
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:19 pm

vander wrote:You being skinny doesnt mean anything Durian, its a N=1 experiment. And noone is saying it doesnt work (if done well) they are saying its not necessary! Also it isnt the best way the best way is to eat a variety of foods.

It will take a long time to find out the impacts of this N=1 experiment. For example, dorian could be developing osteoporosis. We probably won't know that for another 10 years.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:44 pm

durianrider wrote: Like the okinawans they too would derive around 1% of their daily calories from animal products.

Image

We have already gone over this data and worked out it is patently wrong. According to the chart their intake of fruit was <1% total calories. We both know that is rubbish! How can we believe any other figure if they messed up fruit so royally? :lol

So, if the okinawans ate no fruit and were lean, it must be fruit that makes you fat. :wink:
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby durianrider » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:31 pm

vander wrote:You being skinny doesnt mean anything Durian, its a N=1 experiment. And noone is saying it doesnt work (if done well) they are saying its not necessary! Also it isnt the best way the best way is to eat a variety of foods.

I see you ignored the 5sec peak power questions. I will try again what is your 5sec peak power? (no lieing).



Ok fair enough. Im only one person. What about the 3 billion skinny carb munchers living in India, China, Africa, Asia etc? You telling me everyone that is thin eating carbs is in a famine? You need to travel on your bicycle with me in these nations then and I will show you traditional diets high in carbs and very low fat and low in animal products yet people are rail thin like elite athletes despite not even being able to run a sub 40minute 10k let alone a marathon!

5 second peak power? LOL! WHO CARES!

Ok you do so its 19.7 watts/kg.

Does that mean Im protein deficient? What should it be? I guess 5 second power could be good if you have a bike race across a set of traffic lights.

Robbie McEwan beat me in this segment though. One of the worlds best sprinters. http://app.strava.com/segments/856362
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby durianrider » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:39 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
vander wrote:You being skinny doesnt mean anything Durian, its a N=1 experiment. And noone is saying it doesnt work (if done well) they are saying its not necessary! Also it isnt the best way the best way is to eat a variety of foods.

It will take a long time to find out the impacts of this N=1 experiment. For example, dorian could be developing osteoporosis. We probably won't know that for another 10 years.



Not to sound rude but Id put money on it you ARE developing heart disease, increased risk of cancer, type 2 diabetes, gout etc based on NSW Cancer Council data, WHO data and any literature from the American Medical Journal.

Why do the nations with the highest dairy consumption have the highest rates of osteoporosis and vice versa? Interesting..

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/12/13120.aspx

Please explain this.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby durianrider » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:43 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
durianrider wrote: Like the okinawans they too would derive around 1% of their daily calories from animal products.

Image

We have already gone over this data and worked out it is patently wrong. According to the chart their intake of fruit was <1% total calories. We both know that is rubbish! How can we believe any other figure if they messed up fruit so royally? :lol

So, if the okinawans ate no fruit and were lean, it must be fruit that makes you fat. :wink:


You can't get much fruit in Okinawa. They lived on the next best thing-high sugar content starches like sweet potato. Another fabulously slimming food. Unless you eat it with sour cream and cheese lol!

'Im getting fat eating steamed sweet potatoes...can't be the sour cream and cheese though cos the nutritionist on TV said fatty foods are slimming..must be the steamed sweet potatoes..'
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby sogood » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:56 pm

durianrider wrote:'Im getting fat eating steamed sweet potatoes...

You aren't meant to eat more than 20 per day!
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:22 pm

sogood wrote:
durianrider wrote:'Im getting fat eating steamed sweet potatoes...

You aren't meant to eat more than 20 per day!


This guy lost 75kg eating sweet potatoes

Dramatic weight loss on Maori diet
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:33 pm

durianrider wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:
vander wrote:You being skinny doesnt mean anything Durian, its a N=1 experiment. And noone is saying it doesnt work (if done well) they are saying its not necessary! Also it isnt the best way the best way is to eat a variety of foods.

It will take a long time to find out the impacts of this N=1 experiment. For example, dorian could be developing osteoporosis. We probably won't know that for another 10 years.


Not to sound rude but Id put money on it you ARE developing heart disease, increased risk of cancer, type 2 diabetes, gout etc based on NSW Cancer Council data, WHO data and any literature from the American Medical Journal..

Vegetarians have a higher risk of heart disease, cancer, type 2 diabetes & gout now? News to me. Care to back up any of your bizarre claims? Who ever thought being a vegetarian was so dangerous? I better start eating some meat for my health eh?
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:37 pm

durianrider wrote:You can't get much fruit in Okinawa.

Oops. Fact fail again. Do you post anything that you don't just make up? :lol:

"the traditional Okinawan diet, that is, vegetable and fruit heavy"

http://www.jacn.org/content/28/4_Supplement_1/500S.long

At least seven servings of fruits and vegetables, with the emphasis on vegetables, is a hallmark of the traditional Okanawan diet. One serving of fruit per day is most common


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/419417-traditional-okinawan-diet/#ixzz2MSapuKQ0
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:40 pm

durianrider wrote:'Im getting fat eating steamed sweet potatoes...can't be the sour cream and cheese though cos the nutritionist on TV said fatty foods are slimming..must be the steamed sweet potatoes..'

No nutritionist on tv said fatty foods are slimming. You made that up, didn't you? :wink:
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:02 pm

durianrider wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:
vander wrote:You being skinny doesnt mean anything Durian, its a N=1 experiment. And noone is saying it doesnt work (if done well) they are saying its not necessary! Also it isnt the best way the best way is to eat a variety of foods.

It will take a long time to find out the impacts of this N=1 experiment. For example, dorian could be developing osteoporosis. We probably won't know that for another 10 years.


Not to sound rude but Id put money on it you ARE developing heart disease, increased risk of cancer, type 2 diabetes, gout etc based on NSW Cancer Council data, WHO data and any literature from the American Medical Journal.

Oops. Another epic fact fail.

Many studies have shown that vegetarians seem to have a lower risk of obesity, coronary heart disease (which causes heart attack), high blood pressure, diabetes mellitus and some forms of cancer.


http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/NutritionCenter/Vegetarian-Diets_UCM_306032_Article.jsp

Vegetarian Diet

Vegetables do not contribute significantly to the levels of uric acid in your blood. Even the purine-rich vegetables, such as leafy greens and legumes, are not associated with gout. By lowering or eliminating your intake of foods high in uric acid, you relieve some stress on your kidneys and allow them to process the uric acid that your body produces naturally. Without uric acid from external sources taxing them, your kidneys are able to function properly and prevent the buildups that can lead to gout.


http://www.livestrong.com/article/466370-vegetarian-diet-gout/#ixzz2MSfnN7gC

I looked on the cancer council NSW web site but I couldn't find anything that says that vegetarians are at a higher risk of cancer so I have nothing to like to. :roll:
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby winstonw » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:04 pm

Zynster wrote:Actually the quote refers to what one researcher estimated a Palaeolithic man would have consumed in a day, not what is recommended on a paleo diet as you claimed.

The Friel and Cordain book is old. They were still recommending low fat. That's not gonna fly. Paleo is a high fat diet. A much better model for a paleo cyclist is from Jamie Scott.


Zyn, amongst other things, I want to highlight the inadequacy of guiding dietary intake via macro percentages.

Take two 70kg people
- sedentary office worker energy burn 2000Cals/day
- pro athlete 5000 Cals/day 5 days a week.

If they both follow typical Paleo diet recommendation of 35% of Cals from protein:
sedentary guy = 175g pro/day = 2.5g/kg bm
pro athlete = 437g pro/day = 6.3g/kg bm

The scientific consensus does not recommend protein intake above 2g/kg bm!
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby skull » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:34 pm

when we switched over to paleo style eating our meat intake didn't increase.

What did increase was our consumption of vegetables and fruit. Also we kept sweet potato in our food, some paleo recommendations talk about removing them.

Another increase was our nuts intake, we made a granola mix that was almonds, macadomias, pumpkin seeds and raisins. Milk has been pretty much cut with the exception of milk in coffee for wife and we have greek yoghurt on our granola.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby twizzle » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:09 pm

winstonw wrote:
Zynster wrote:Actually the quote refers to what one researcher estimated a Palaeolithic man would have consumed in a day, not what is recommended on a paleo diet as you claimed.

The Friel and Cordain book is old. They were still recommending low fat. That's not gonna fly. Paleo is a high fat diet. A much better model for a paleo cyclist is from Jamie Scott.


Zyn, amongst other things, I want to highlight the inadequacy of guiding dietary intake via macro percentages.

Take two 70kg people
- sedentary office worker energy burn 2000Cals/day
- pro athlete 5000 Cals/day 5 days a week.

If they both follow typical Paleo diet recommendation of 35% of Cals from protein:
sedentary guy = 175g pro/day = 2.5g/kg bm
pro athlete = 437g pro/day = 6.3g/kg bm

The scientific consensus does not recommend protein intake above 2g/kg bm!


Which typical Paleo diet would that be? And where is this 2gm/kg "upper limit" recommendation? And, as discussed several times before, the Cordain/Friel brand of "Paleo" makes specific allowances for athletes,which increases the carbs percentage.


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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:30 pm

winstonw wrote:
Zynster wrote:Actually the quote refers to what one researcher estimated a Palaeolithic man would have consumed in a day, not what is recommended on a paleo diet as you claimed.

The Friel and Cordain book is old. They were still recommending low fat. That's not gonna fly. Paleo is a high fat diet. A much better model for a paleo cyclist is from Jamie Scott.


Zyn, amongst other things, I want to highlight the inadequacy of guiding dietary intake via macro percentages

Does that include 80/10/10?
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby vander » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:45 pm

durianrider wrote:5 second peak power? LOL! WHO CARES!

Ok you do so its 19.7 watts/kg.

Does that mean Im protein deficient? What should it be? I guess 5 second power could be good if you have a bike race across a set of traffic lights.

Robbie McEwan beat me in this segment though. One of the worlds best sprinters. http://app.strava.com/segments/856362


You always talk up how your sprinting is so amazing which is why I asked as a big part of bike racing is sprinting however according to you sprinting is not part of bike racing. There goes all your credibility right there. Yes sprinting is very important in cycling (ask Mark Cavendish etc etc). In Australia it is probably more useful then climbing.

Can you provide a file for that number (please dont tell me you were using the strava numbers) because anyone producing 19.7w/kg would be winning a lot of sprints, which if you were you would think that it is part of racing so I highly doubt that.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby Parker » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:16 pm

winstonw wrote:
Parker wrote:I eat no sugar (fruit is fine and honey ive kept in; because its natural) and no grains, I'm not hungry, I'm losing weight, I don't miss bread, I don't love pasta and find it dull... I'm doing this for the month of March with CC, at the end of the month I'm going to the doctor to have my bloods done, because I am eating more fats and I want to see if there's a difference.

My mood is more consistent, I'm not tired, I don't get that 3pm slump and I'm not normally hungry after lunch until dinner.

That being said the key to this is... Eat more vegetables, colour your plate, 7-10 serves of vegetables per day is ideal and wait for it... Shop the outside of the supermarket, there's nothing in those isles that haven't had sugar added to it, artificial sweeteners, GMO oils... Etc.

I only chimed in cause CC told me this was an hilarious thread... It's pretty funny.


let us know how you go when you reach your goal weight and want to do 10+hrs/wk of pacey or lumpy cycling.

How about ironman training? What? You mean you ONLY handle 10 hours of training a week... Dude, come on. There's not a single book out there that says, "eating highly processed foods is really super good for you and in fact they're super foods..." For shizlle... Cause the bread they serve us is 'real' sure... It was when my grandma made her own and when the grains hadn't been modified to make it 'better'.

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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby Parker » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:21 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
winstonw wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Was that creak I just heard the sound of the hurtbox opening? Know where my money's on...


a man of conviction hey?.....then phone Cycling Australia's junior development program (may as well contact Team Sky too) and offer them a money back guarantee your diet insights will generate superior performance gains.


What's my food intake got to do with this? Nothing except give you another chance to have a non sequitur go at me, boring. Unlike you, I don't promote myself as some multi disciplinary savant who knows everything about any topic anyone can bring up. Take the time to read my serious posts and you'll find that much of the time, any advice is peppered with IME or IMO. Also unlike you, I am willing to believe that the sum total of the knowledge and experience of the members here is exponentially greater than my own and that no matter how long I live, I will never know it all but that will never stop me trying to learn more from anyone willing to present information in a reasoned and reasonable manner that does not come across similar to the fevered ranting of some oddball religious zealot.

Knowing and having ridden with Parker, I can tell you she is one driven lady (in every sense of the word) with more smarts than you have manners, not that that's too hard, so does Forest Gump.

She rides hard and she climbs well and the only reason she has never dropped me in the first 5 kms is because she's too nice to do that on a friendly. I'd back her against many people in many more endeavours than just riding a bike.

We're done.

Good to see you making friends there Bill.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby winstonw » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:15 am

Mulger bill wrote:
winstonw wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Was that creak I just heard the sound of the hurtbox opening? Know where my money's on...


a man of conviction hey?.....then phone Cycling Australia's junior development program (may as well contact Team Sky too) and offer them a money back guarantee your diet insights will generate superior performance gains.


What's my food intake got to do with this? Nothing except give you another chance to have a non sequitur go at me, boring. Unlike you, I don't promote myself as some multi disciplinary savant who knows everything about any topic anyone can bring up. Take the time to read my serious posts and you'll find that much of the time, any advice is peppered with IME or IMO. Also unlike you, I am willing to believe that the sum total of the knowledge and experience of the members here is exponentially greater than my own and that no matter how long I live, I will never know it all but that will never stop me trying to learn more from anyone willing to present information in a reasoned and reasonable manner that does not come across similar to the fevered ranting of some oddball religious zealot.

Knowing and having ridden with Parker, I can tell you she is one driven lady (in every sense of the word) with more smarts than you have manners, not that that's too hard, so does Forest Gump.

She rides hard and she climbs well and the only reason she has never dropped me in the first 5 kms is because she's too nice to do that on a friendly. I'd back her against many people in many more endeavours than just riding a bike.

We're done.


hahaha.....Shaun has a melt down...you've got a dubious and disturbing history of abusing and flaming with B grade schoolboy wit, (and banning) anyone who challenges your dilettante (ime imo hahaha ) views on all and sundry....why? I presume because of some inferiority about your education or emotional maturity in debating the facts objectively. Reread your rant above in the morning. It's a very very telling emotionally unhinged diatribe. From what I've read in your posts, most which add no facts or insight (just the taunts of a nasty schoolboy in shorts), you haven't displayed the education or intelligence to judge whether I am right or wrong in anything I say. From what I see, you just use the forum as a popularity contest. Shaun, show some maturity and start debating the issues with more than ime imo.
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