Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby winstonw » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:21 am

Parker wrote:How about ironman training? What? You mean you ONLY handle 10 hours of training a week... Dude, come on. There's not a single book out there that says, "eating highly processed foods is really super good for you and in fact they're super foods..." For shizlle... Cause the bread they serve us is 'real' sure... It was when my grandma made her own and when the grains hadn't been modified to make it 'better'.

Pick. Up. The. Pace.


Parker, you said you've given up grains. Do you understand what grain is? Better get back to ironman school if not.
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by BNA » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:39 am

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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby winstonw » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:39 am

casual_cyclist wrote:
winstonw wrote:
Zynster wrote:Actually the quote refers to what one researcher estimated a Palaeolithic man would have consumed in a day, not what is recommended on a paleo diet as you claimed.

The Friel and Cordain book is old. They were still recommending low fat. That's not gonna fly. Paleo is a high fat diet. A much better model for a paleo cyclist is from Jamie Scott.


Zyn, amongst other things, I want to highlight the inadequacy of guiding dietary intake via macro percentages

Does that include 80/10/10?


C_C, the trouble starts when exercise junkies unfamiliar with the Krebs cycle, liver and kidney function etc, start googling 'diet', and take macro percentages literally, no matter their energy spend.

Twizzle, I am not surprised you don't know the scientific consensus on g/kg bm protein intake. You'll have to extend your reading beyond Paleo blogs. Or just go see an AIS dietitian like I've suggested over and over.....but try and shut up and listen to what they've got to say before you bash them senseless with Paleospeak. And you better sort out with Zynster whether Joe Friel knows what dinkum Paleo is. lard or sweet potato? go on off you two go...and bang heads for a few pages. :lol: :shock: and don't forget fatophile PaleoParker, or she'll feel unloved.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby twizzle » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:56 am

I'm always amazed that someone who tries to give the appearance of knowing it all, always seems to be incapable of finding any references that support his position when challenged.

There is a distinct lack of oxygen in this vicinity, I suspect a thief is at work.


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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby matagi » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:31 am

The link below gives some indication of the "official" line on intake requirements.

http://www.nrv.gov.au/nutrients/index.htm
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:34 am

[mod]If I see any more posts that attack the poster rather than debate the topic, the poster will receive a ban in accordance with the forum rules[/mod]
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby twizzle » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:17 am

winstonw wrote:hahaha.....Shaun has a melt down...you've got a dubious and disturbing history of abusing and flaming with B grade schoolboy wit, (and banning) anyone who challenges your dilettante (ime imo hahaha ) views on all and sundry....why? I presume because of some inferiority about your education or emotional maturity in debating the facts objectively. Reread your rant above in the morning. It's a very very telling emotionally unhinged diatribe. From what I've read in your posts, most which add no facts or insight (just the taunts of a nasty schoolboy in shorts), you haven't displayed the education or intelligence to judge whether I am right or wrong in anything I say. From what I see, you just use the forum as a popularity contest. Shaun, show some maturity and start debating the issues with more than ime imo.


Quoted simply so winston can't go back and edit it out. :mrgreen:

Besides which, how often do you see someone regurgitate a thesaurus!
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby twizzle » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:38 am

Cordain "Paleo Diet" (second edition) gives a range of 19-35% energy intake from protein. Obviously - the more you exercise, the closer to the lower number you should be as exercise increases the carb (or fat!) requirement. The latest study I could find suggests 2 - 2.5g/kg as a safe limit, but also shows the theoretical limit is 3.5 - 4.5 g/kg.

But... as other have pointed out, "Cordain" is old school, and Mark Sisson is suggesting 1g/kg.

Yes - if you go stupid on protein, you can make yourself very sick.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby winstonw » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:17 am

twizzle wrote:Quoted simply so winston can't go back and edit it out. :mrgreen:

Besides which, how often do you see someone regurgitate a thesaurus!


Why don't you just delete it as per usual Shaun?
I see you are back to your usual intellectually stunted sarcasm this morning.
Why not actually contribute something about diet to this thread? like your readings and practice for protein intake.
I presume you've got some nut job belief on it as well.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby winstonw » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:39 am

twizzle wrote:Cordain "Paleo Diet" (second edition) gives a range of 19-35% energy intake from protein. Obviously - the more you exercise, the closer to the lower number you should be as exercise increases the carb (or fat!) requirement. The latest study I could find suggests 2 - 2.5g/kg as a safe limit, but also shows the theoretical limit is 3.5 - 4.5 g/kg.

But... as other have pointed out, "Cordain" is old school, and Mark Sisson is suggesting 1g/kg.

Yes - if you go stupid on protein, you can make yourself very sick.


Twizzle's been googling....hahaha. so is it 2.0g/kg or 2.5g/kg. Being the scientifically rigorous chap you paint yourself as, now go find the consensus view.

Cordain doesn't qualify when to do 19 or 35%. Any recommendations a sharp scientist promoting a global diet makes should be expressed in g/kg, or g/lb to avoid muddying the waters. Where's Cordain's?

The AIS have made their recommendations freely available. But for whatever reason, Shaun, you, et al think you've got an edge over the AIS. hahaha. Just spend the dollars on a consult with a sports dietitian Twiz.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby Parker » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:48 am

winstonw wrote:
Parker wrote:How about ironman training? What? You mean you ONLY handle 10 hours of training a week... Dude, come on. There's not a single book out there that says, "eating highly processed foods is really super good for you and in fact they're super foods..." For shizlle... Cause the bread they serve us is 'real' sure... It was when my grandma made her own and when the grains hadn't been modified to make it 'better'.

Pick. Up. The. Pace.


Parker, you said you've given up grains. Do you understand what grain is? Better get back to ironman school if not.

Yes.

There are lots of no grain and no sugar athletes out there... They're even doing ironman.

OMGosh I'm doing something different that the majority don't agree with *runs around with hands on heads screaming*...
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby twizzle » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:14 am

winstonw wrote:
twizzle wrote:Quoted simply so winston can't go back and edit it out. :mrgreen:

Besides which, how often do you see someone regurgitate a thesaurus!


Why don't you just delete it as per usual Shaun?
I see you are back to your usual intellectually stunted sarcasm this morning.
Why not actually contribute something about diet to this thread? like your readings and practice for protein intake.
I presume you've got some nut job belief on it as well.


Blah. Blah Blah Blah. Blah.

I already did my protein numbers on the other thread. Forgotten already?

And, other than rambling nonsense, where are your contributions?
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby twizzle » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:16 am

twizzle wrote:I'm always amazed that someone who tries to give the appearance of knowing it all, always seems to be incapable of finding any references that support his position when challenged.

There is a distinct lack of oxygen in this vicinity, I suspect a thief is at work.


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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby Zynster » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:36 am

winstonw wrote:C_C, the trouble starts when exercise junkies unfamiliar with the Krebs cycle, liver and kidney function etc, start googling 'diet', and take macro percentages literally, no matter their energy spend.

I believe that I already mentioned that there is no such thing as a recommended macro percentages in Paleo. It's quite variable depending on the individual. And I'm not about to defend people who "start googling 'diet', and take macro percentages literally, no matter their energy spend". You get what you reap. It's a bit like the people who use the wikipedia page on Paleo as their only reference, and then can't even manage to quote that correctly.

The 2g/kg of protein a day limit is fairly well known. I've actually tried to eat that much protein when I started weight lifting. It's a lot. I wasn't comfortable with that much and scaled it back. I also have a friend who rides track at a national level. They are totally into Paleo and are all steak monsters.

winstonw wrote:And you better sort out with Zynster whether Joe Friel knows what dinkum Paleo is.

Or you could try reading the actual book, in which he does recommend a low fat diet. In his defence, this book came out 8 years ago when Paleo was still rather new, and there was a lot of fear of litigation in going against the established belief that saturated fats are bad. Now he's all for it.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby winstonw » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:57 am

Parker wrote:There are lots of no grain and no sugar athletes out there... They're even doing ironman.

OMGosh I'm doing something different that the majority don't agree with *runs around with hands on heads screaming*...



get back to us when you've done 3 consecutive years of ironman events on your something different diet.
otherwise your just dabbling for whatever reason people dabble with diets.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby winstonw » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:11 am

Zynster wrote:I also have a friend who rides track at a national level. They are totally into Paleo and are all steak monsters.


I'll pass on the Paleo diet and steak monster recommendation. I have a professional relationship with several AIS trained sports dietitians I am happy with.
According to them, any edge your steak monster mates are getting is going to be at the expense of their longer term athletic performance and health.

Ignoring them is similar to Florence Griffith-Joyner ignoring doctors when they said don't do roids. Yeah it probably helped her win a couple of medals, but she was dead before 40.

Either way, Charlie Darwin will have the last word.
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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:50 am

twizzle wrote:Quoted simply so winston can't go back and edit it out. :mrgreen:

Besides which, how often do you see someone regurgitate a thesaurus!


Thanks Twiz, appreciate the effort at KTBH.

Oddly enough, I understood all those words without need to google. More research required for the next diatribe methinks. :twisted:

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Re: Is a high carb low fat vegan diet good for weight loss?

Postby im_no_pro » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:53 pm

mikesbytes wrote:[mod]If I see any more posts that attack the poster rather than debate the topic, the poster will receive a ban in accordance with the forum rules[/mod]


Don't say you werent warned. Thread will be locked until I can sort the personal attacks from the rest, which may take a couple of hours given I have a paid job that takes priority. If it continues after I unlock it then it gets permalocked.

edit: the thread that spawned this one has also been locked so dont bother going looking for it to continue the conversation there.

2nd edit: after discussion between mods/admin we have decided the thread will stay locked. This is the second thread on this topic that has got out of hand, the time for giving the benefit of the doubt so others can have a civil discussion is gone. Any new thread that even has a sniff of continuing this will unfortunately suffer the same fate.
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