Beyond first-world diets.

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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby matagi » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:53 pm

I have never refrigerated olive oil, and it takes me more than two months to go through a bottle. I refuse to buy oil in plastic bottles. All my oil comes in tins or dark glass bottles and is stored in my pantry ( which never gets to 30 degrees, even after a heatwave)
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by BNA » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:17 pm

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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby durianrider » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:17 pm

cp123 wrote:
durianrider wrote:[
vegetarian diets can be higher in saturated fat and cholesterol than meat based diets due to excessive egg, fish, chicken and milk consumption.
quote]


Vegetarians don't eat fish and chicken.....


I met an overweight vegetarian today. After about 15mins talking about diet she said 'I havent eaten red meat for 10 years but I do eat a lot of chicken and fish to make up for the lack of protein in my vegetarian diet'.

face palm.

Look up Lierre Keith. She wrote a book claiming to be VEGAN for 20 years yet in interviews she admits to eating animal products weekly lol!

Thats like saying you can run a 10 000m sub 30 but during it, you ride a bicycle every time your legs burn too much.

vegetarians do eat chicken, fish and often red meat. I know, Ive lived with some of em. Vegetarians in asia means no animal product. In the west its just a hipster word people throw around to sound like they are into healthy eating. They don't really live it though.

Besides, milk and eggs is pretty much the same saturated fat, endotoxin and cholesterol load as animal flesh. Thats why vegetarians are so sick as long as they consume animal products.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby durianrider » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:18 pm

matagi wrote:I have never refrigerated olive oil, and it takes me more than two months to go through a bottle. I refuse to buy oil in plastic bottles. All my oil comes in tins or dark glass bottles and is stored in my pantry ( which never gets to 30 degrees, even after a heatwave)


What about when the olive oil enters your blood stream/lymphatic system? What temp is that? Im sure its over 30 degrees therefore making the oils rancid and full of free radicals.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby matagi » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:14 pm

durianrider wrote:
matagi wrote:I have never refrigerated olive oil, and it takes me more than two months to go through a bottle. I refuse to buy oil in plastic bottles. All my oil comes in tins or dark glass bottles and is stored in my pantry ( which never gets to 30 degrees, even after a heatwave)


What about when the olive oil enters your blood stream/lymphatic system? What temp is that? Im sure its over 30 degrees therefore making the oils rancid and full of free radicals.

Quite frankly, I am not concerned. After all, the olive oil is broken down in my gut during the digestive process so what enters my bloodstream is no longer olive oil.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:02 pm

matagi wrote:...so what enters my bloodstream is no longer olive oil.

Oh? Someone noticed that... :lol:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby matagi » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:13 am

Mulger bill wrote:
matagi wrote:...so what enters my bloodstream is no longer olive oil.

Oh? Someone noticed that... :lol:

Biochemistry 101 :P
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby durianrider » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:38 pm

matagi wrote:
durianrider wrote:
matagi wrote:I have never refrigerated olive oil, and it takes me more than two months to go through a bottle. I refuse to buy oil in plastic bottles. All my oil comes in tins or dark glass bottles and is stored in my pantry ( which never gets to 30 degrees, even after a heatwave)


What about when the olive oil enters your blood stream/lymphatic system? What temp is that? Im sure its over 30 degrees therefore making the oils rancid and full of free radicals.

Quite frankly, I am not concerned. After all, the olive oil is broken down in my gut during the digestive process so what enters my bloodstream is no longer olive oil.



Um, yes it is. Look up how fat is actually digested in the body. Look up lipemia. Fats that have been absorbed in the small intestine enter lymph vessels in that organ. Those fats are then carried through the lymphatic system back into the blood circulatory system aka lipemia. Eat a fatty meal and your blood is quickly saturated with fats aka hyperlipidemia. Ever wondered why after a fatty meal the next day your legs feel 'blocked'.


Look up the fact that if you do a biopsy on fat tissue you will see what fats the patient eats the most. Fish fat, plant fat, dairy fat, beef fat etc. The fat we eat is literally the fat we wear. Where do you think the omega 3 fatty acids come from in animal products? They are plant derived. No animal produces omega 3 fatty acids as they get it from plants like grass or algae. Tuna get their omega 3 from sardines which fed on algae. The plant fat aka omega 3 passes on.

Biochemistry 101. :wink:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby winstonw » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:12 am

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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby twizzle » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:06 am



Congratulations to you - the first mention of Kangaroo in this thread. :roll:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby winstonw » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:20 am

twizzle wrote:


Congratulations to you - the first mention of Kangaroo in this thread. :roll:




Yes i thought it might be of interest to those considering its low fat benefits. i take it u have nothing intelligent to add.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby skull » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:16 pm

Excessive consumption...

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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby twizzle » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:00 pm

winstonw wrote:
twizzle wrote:


Congratulations to you - the first mention of Kangaroo in this thread. :roll:




Yes i thought it might be of interest to those considering its low fat benefits. i take it u have nothing intelligent to add.


Sure - if you are going to link to something that isn't a vague alarmist newspaper article, I'll be happy to add something intelligent.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby m@ » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:55 pm

Looking on the bright side, it appears that vegetarians can safely eat kangaroo to their hearts' content... :mrgreen:

meat-eaters were found to produce significantly higher amounts of TMAO than vegetarians after consuming L-carnitine, suggesting that a red meat diet favours the growth of gut bacteria that digests the nutrient.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:39 pm

m@ wrote:Looking on the bright side, it appears that vegetarians can safely eat kangaroo to their hearts' content... :mrgreen:

meat-eaters were found to produce significantly higher amounts of TMAO than vegetarians after consuming L-carnitine, suggesting that a red meat diet favours the growth of gut bacteria that digests the nutrient.


But does "significantly higher" equate to "high levels"?

Health issues

A recent study indicates that high levels of TMAO are associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease. High levels of TMAO are found in the blood after consuming foods containing carnitine. High concentrations of carnitine are found in red meat and some energy drinks. Some types of Gut bacteria (e.g. some species of Acinetobacter) convert dietary L-carnitine to TMAO. Vegans appear to lack the gut bacteria that convert carnitine to TMAO.[8][9]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylamine_N-oxide

haha. I quoted wikipedia :lol: :roll:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby moosterbounce » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:01 am

All these posts about kangaroo made my dinner decision much easier :)

Tasted better to me than any lentil or lettuce leaf ever will.

Sorry to get sidetracked. :P
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby matagi » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:41 am

I cannot get excited about kangaroo for some reason. Venison, on the other hand ....
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby twizzle » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:19 am

Summary from the actual study :

Intestinal microbiota metabolism of choline and phosphatidylcholine produces trimethylamine (TMA), which is further metabolized to a proatherogenic species, trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO). We demonstrate here that metabolism by intestinal microbiota of dietary l-carnitine, a trimethylamine abundant in red meat, also produces TMAO and accelerates atherosclerosis in mice. Omnivorous human subjects produced more TMAO than did vegans or vegetarians following ingestion of l-carnitine through a microbiota-dependent mechanism. The presence of specific bacterial taxa in human feces was associated with both plasma TMAO concentration and dietary status. Plasma l-carnitine levels in subjects undergoing cardiac evaluation (n = 2,595) predicted increased risks for both prevalent cardiovascular disease (CVD) and incident major adverse cardiac events (myocardial infarction, stroke or death), but only among subjects with concurrently high TMAO levels. Chronic dietary l-carnitine supplementation in mice altered cecal microbial composition, markedly enhanced synthesis of TMA and TMAO, and increased atherosclerosis, but this did not occur if intestinal microbiota was concurrently suppressed. In mice with an intact intestinal microbiota, dietary supplementation with TMAO or either carnitine or choline reduced in vivo reverse cholesterol transport. Intestinal microbiota may thus contribute to the well-established link between high levels of red meat consumption and CVD risk.


Well established link between red meat and CVD? Where would that be documented? I though it was saturated fat, smoking and diabetes? :roll:

Other factoids from the study.

n = 2595.
27% had diabetes.
69% were smokers.
72% had high blood pressure.
Average BMI was 29.
The people who had higher levels of carnitine were also more likely to smoke and have high blood pressure.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby matagi » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:48 pm

Nothing like chucking in a couple of confounding variables to muddy the waters and hoping nobody will notice. Gotta love a well designed study. :roll:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby winstonw » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:32 am

twizzle wrote:Other factoids from the study.

n = 2595.
27% had diabetes.
69% were smokers.
72% had high blood pressure.
Average BMI was 29.
The people who had higher levels of carnitine were also more likely to smoke and have high blood pressure.


"Hazen’s group also found that blood levels of TMAO and L-carnitine could predict heart disease risk, which they learned by collecting blood samples from 2,595 patients and tracking their health for three years."

They were all "patients"...they weren't supposed to be a sample of a population of normals. :roll:
That component of the study was about predictability of CVD risk from separate variables.
Let's presume Hazen knows more about ANOVA than you or I.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby clackers » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:23 am

twizzle wrote:
Other factoids from the study.
.


Small thing quite apart from your good research, Twizzle ... a "factoid" means something different from what you might think it is.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby twizzle » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:10 am

clackers wrote:
twizzle wrote:
Other factoids from the study.
.


Small thing quite apart from your good research, Twizzle ... a "factoid" means something different from what you might think it is.


Maybe... but I think I will use "factlet" in the future.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby winstonw » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:45 am

moosterbounce wrote:All these posts about kangaroo made my dinner decision much easier :)

Tasted better to me than any lentil or lettuce leaf ever will.

Sorry to get sidetracked. :P


You're not the only moderator to make irrelevant and uninformed posts in diet threads.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby twizzle » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:12 pm

twizzle wrote:This thread is for POLITE discussion. Science and study-backed preferred, no one is interested in stories about your neighbours wife's mothers friend.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby sogood » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:51 pm

Oil and oil and then coconut oil gets the rage...
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby winstonw » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:07 pm

twizzle wrote:Congratulations to you - the first mention of Kangaroo in this thread. :roll:


twizzle wrote:This thread is for POLITE discussion. Science and study-backed preferred, no one is interested in stories about your neighbours wife's mothers friend.
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