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Beyond first-world diets.

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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby twizzle » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:47 pm

The visceral fat bit (common problem for people from Asia) is an interesting driver. All those "skinny fat" people out there. Throw in excess sugar, weight gain, off you go down the slippery slide to CVD?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-density_lipoprotein


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by BNA » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:47 pm

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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby durianrider » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:47 pm

Tend to see more muffin tops in Australia than SE Asia. Ive cycled thousands of km in both so speaking from personal experience vs wikipedia.

KFC makes you skinny and lean. Steamed rice and veg blows you right out. Just ask any 400lb aussie. They are steamed rice addicts. Organic fruit juice binge drinkers too.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby durianrider » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:51 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
twizzle wrote:
durianrider wrote:Fat is called fat cos it makes you SLIM. Im not sure how hard that is to understand.


Anyone have an explanation as to why CVD rates are so bad in India where people are either vegetarian or eat little meat?

Vitamin B12 deficiency? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23473764

Smoking? Not enough green leafy vegetables? Using sunflower oil instead of mustard oil? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15051601

This study showed that thrombotic factors (smoking, low fruit and vegetables intake, high fibrinogen, high homocysteine) as well as atherogenic factors (high fat diet, hypertension, high LDL cholesterol, low HDL cholesterol and high triglycerides) were important in the development of premature CHD.


Studies among older CHD patients in India such as the INTERHEART4 and others ... reported that multiple thrombogenic and atherogenic risk factors such as smoking, high apolipoprotein B, known hypertension or diabetes, high waist-hip ratio (WHR), psychosocial factors, lack of exercise and low fruit and vegetables consumption are important.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3171913/

Looks to me like it is more lifestyle (including diet) than diet alone. So being vegetarian by itself isn't going to be protective.



vegetarian diets can be higher in saturated fat and cholesterol than meat based diets due to excessive egg, fish, chicken and milk consumption. In the case of fat Indians that load up on the ghee, its the fat that is making them fat. What costs more in India? 3000calories or rice, meat, milk or ghee?

Skinny people live on rice. Fat people live on fat. Why am I the leanest and fittest person here? Why is my Mum clinically obese? I thought diet doesnt matter and its all about genetics. Why do I look like a Tour rider even when having months of very little training?

NOTHING TO DO WITH DIET! :wink:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby skull » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:17 pm

You're really starting to get on my nerve.

You over eat you'll gain weight.

Whether it is from eating too many bananas or too much steak.

Pretty simple really.

Now can you go away as you fail to provide anything if value to this thread. The trolling is getting boring.

I can add my own observation of knowing a couple of fat vegetations. Then the others I have come across tend to look like they are POWs from the Thai - Burma railway.

As for looking healthy, the majority of tour riders don't look healthy. They look emaciated.

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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:29 pm

twizzle wrote:This thread is for POLITE discussion. Science and study-backed preferred, no one is interested in stories about your neighbours wife's mothers friend.

durianrider wrote:Why am I the leanest and fittest person here? Why is my Mum clinically obese?

No one is interested in stories about your mother. :roll:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:34 pm

durianrider wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:
twizzle wrote:Anyone have an explanation as to why CVD rates are so bad in India where people are either vegetarian or eat little meat?

Vitamin B12 deficiency? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23473764

Smoking? Not enough green leafy vegetables? Using sunflower oil instead of mustard oil? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15051601

This study showed that thrombotic factors (smoking, low fruit and vegetables intake, high fibrinogen, high homocysteine) as well as atherogenic factors (high fat diet, hypertension, high LDL cholesterol, low HDL cholesterol and high triglycerides) were important in the development of premature CHD.


Studies among older CHD patients in India such as the INTERHEART4 and others ... reported that multiple thrombogenic and atherogenic risk factors such as smoking, high apolipoprotein B, known hypertension or diabetes, high waist-hip ratio (WHR), psychosocial factors, lack of exercise and low fruit and vegetables consumption are important.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3171913/

Looks to me like it is more lifestyle (including diet) than diet alone. So being vegetarian by itself isn't going to be protective.

vegetarian diets can be higher in saturated fat and cholesterol than meat based diets due to excessive egg, fish, chicken and milk consumption. In the case of fat Indians that load up on the ghee, its the fat that is making them fat. What costs more in India? 3000calories or rice, meat, milk or ghee?

What on earth does this have to do with soaring rates of cardiovascular disease in India? Do you even think before you post? :roll:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby twizzle » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:41 pm

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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:49 pm


uh oh! from the article...
Dr Mike Knapton, a Cambridge GP who also works for the British Heart Foundation, also said that red meat can help prevent heart disease.

Get ready...
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby twizzle » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:45 pm

What's glossed over in that article is that you make your own cholesterol if it isn't in the diet, so only people who follow extremely low-fat diets are at risk. And those who don't eat a wide variety of foods.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby cp123 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:47 pm

[quote="durianrider"][
vegetarian diets can be higher in saturated fat and cholesterol than meat based diets due to excessive egg, fish, chicken and milk consumption.
quote]


Vegetarians don't eat fish and chicken.....
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby Parker » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:40 pm

MEOW!
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:59 pm

cp123 wrote:Vegetarians don't eat fish and chicken.....


The pseudo ones do with all the trendy names do :mrgreen: . Simple I stopped being a vegetarian when I started eating fish again.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:01 pm

durianrider wrote:What costs more in India? 3000calories or rice, meat, milk or ghee?

I'm pretty sure if you go to India you will find that 3000calories is more expensive than meat. But people can't afford meat. Therefore you will find that rich people who buy 3000calories are fatter than meat eaters. It's all very logical. :lol: :roll:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:03 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
cp123 wrote:Vegetarians don't eat fish and chicken.....

The pseudo ones do with all the trendy names do :mrgreen: . Simple I stopped being a vegetarian when I started eating fish again.

Sounds like you became a pescetarian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pescetarianism

... a trendy name for people who eat actual food :lol:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:09 pm

Meh ... sounds nul to me.
I just eat a balanced diet... little bit less creme and butter than my neighbours, no horse at all, a portion of fish once every week or two, probably a bit too much fruit, 80-100 grams of protein a day on a good day and about 60 grams of fibre ... so what do they call that diet ? :P .
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:33 pm

skull wrote:You're really starting to get on my nerve.

You over eat you'll gain weight.

Whether it is from eating too many bananas or too much steak.

Pretty simple really.

Now can you go away as you fail to provide anything if value to this thread. The trolling is getting boring.

I can add my own observation of knowing a couple of fat vegetations. Then the others I have come across tend to look like they are POWs from the Thai - Burma railway.

As for looking healthy, the majority of tour riders don't look healthy. They look emaciated.


Jeez Skull, can you cut it out with the circumlocution and get to the point please? :twisted:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:34 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Meh ... sounds nul to me.
I just eat a balanced diet... little bit less creme and butter than my neighbours, no horse at all, a portion of fish once every week or two, probably a bit too much fruit, 80-100 grams of protein a day on a good day and about 60 grams of fibre ... so what do they call that diet ? :P .

Sensible? :lol:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:19 pm

durianrider wrote:Fat is called fat cos it makes you SLIM.

If eating FAT makes you FAT does eating NUTS make you NUTS? :lol: :roll:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby jcjordan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:27 pm

durianrider wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:
twizzle wrote:[quote="durianrider"]

NOTHING TO DO WITH DIET! :wink:


Actually if your food consumption and kms or riding are as you have stated it would be more evidence to support caloric controled diets
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:23 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
durianrider wrote:Fat is called fat cos it makes you SLIM.

If eating FAT makes you FAT does eating NUTS make you NUTS? :lol: :roll:

I got it! Eating bananas sends you bananas... obviously! :lol:
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby casual_cyclist » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:15 pm

What? No dorian today? What's going on here?
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby twizzle » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:38 pm

Anyone seen warnings on bottles of oil saying "refrigerate after opening"? Seems flax (linseed) oil goes off really quickly when exposed to air, and olive oil isn't much better.


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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:00 am

twizzle wrote:Anyone seen warnings on bottles of oil saying "refrigerate after opening"? Seems flax (linseed) oil goes off really quickly when exposed to air, and olive oil isn't much better.

"Practical tips

Even if a manufacturer used great care in the production of the oil, it will not be safe for you to use unless you take the same degree of care with it. Taking care of the product means keeping it refrigerated (and always buying oil that has been refrigerated in the store), opening it only when in use, and keeping it tightly capped when not. It should always be stored in an opaque container so that it is protected from light which can cause rancidity.

Smell and taste the oil before use. If it smells like oil paint or leaves a scratchy sensation in the back of your throat it is rancid and should be discarded.

We like flax seed oil that can be used within approximately one month's period of time, despite the claims of manufacturers that the refrigerated oil will last for much longer. This usually means buying the oil in smaller quantities. "
smells like oil paint? eww :-( discard

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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby matagi » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:02 pm

twizzle wrote:Anyone seen warnings on bottles of oil saying "refrigerate after opening"? Seems flax (linseed) oil goes off really quickly when exposed to air, and olive oil isn't much better.


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I have no idea about flax seed oil, but olive oil certainly does not need refrigerating. It does need to be stored in a dark place however.
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Re: Beyond first-world diets.

Postby twizzle » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:48 pm

Refrigerate if temps above 30C (tick - Aussie summer), and once opened should be used within one to two months. And the Aldi ones I occasionally buy are in plastic bottles and that is also supposed to be a bad idea, although I guess that depends on the plastic.

And in a couple months I will be able to store oil in the fridge to keep it warmer than in the kitchen. Got to love the temp variations up here. :roll:

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