Weight loss through cycling

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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu May 16, 2013 1:30 pm

winstonw wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:Weigh myself every morning first thing and note how much over I am


Colin, I think monitoring your weight most mornings is a good idea (or maybe just a fav belt buckle).
In my experience, this is the advice given to elite athletes... i.e.
they have several bodyweight thresholds.
during competition, weight goal on arising might be 77-78 kg. If they weigh in over 78, they cut back on desserts, junk, eating out, or revert to a diet of a known Calorie intake. If they fall below 77, they are allowed extra starch or desserts.

Some scoff at daily weigh ins as obsessive, but it works well because it is like a guided missile.....more frequent regular feedback on whether on course results in smaller adjustments to dietary intake. This helps stop cravings and life stress from getting too strong a grip, and slipping into a destructive positive feedback loop.




(Daily weigh ins are about as obsessive as having three square meals a day instead of eating for hunger. Showering the same rtime each day, doing homework after tea, ringing mum every Sunday, etc etc. Habits and using regular triggers like time or gettin gout of bed are a successful way to not forget the things that need to be done. Preaching to the converted I expect. Seeing eye to eye with each other? That's a worry. :lol:
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by BNA » Thu May 16, 2013 1:33 pm

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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby matagi » Thu May 16, 2013 1:33 pm

winstonw wrote:Some scoff at daily weigh ins as obsessive, but it works well because it is like a guided missile.....more frequent regular feedback on whether on course results in smaller adjustments to dietary intake. This helps stop cravings and life stress from getting too strong a grip, and slipping into a destructive positive feedback loop.

Unfortunately it doesn't work so well for women, due to hormone induced fluid retention related to the menstrual cycle.
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby twizzle » Thu May 16, 2013 3:00 pm

I put on about 1 - 1.5kg after a hard race, supposedly fluid retention from damaged muscles. Usually gone after a day or two.

Any diet that forces you have to watch your food intake obsessively is probably ignoring all of the recent research (ie. last ten years) that "suggests" that the balance of hormone levels is what drives your "stable" weight and dieting and exercise as the primary means of weight control are counterproductive. No - can't be arsed linking the science.
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu May 16, 2013 4:46 pm

twizzle wrote:Any diet that forces you have to watch your food intake obsessively is probably ignoring all of the recent research (ie. last ten years) that "suggests" that the balance of hormone levels is what drives your "stable" weight and dieting and exercise as the primary means of weight control are counterproductive. No - can't be arsed linking the science.

Without any basis, just personal experience, I agree with this. Generally eating well, moderate exercise and enjoying life, I have achived a stable weight over a 6 month(ish) period for the first time in my life. During that time I have had period where for whatever reason, I didn't organise myself to eat enough in a day or several days in a row and also some times where a ate more than I needed to several days in a row (i.e. Christmas :oops: ) However, during all of that time my weight has been stable. Compare and contrast to a couple of years where I was stressed out of my mind at work which carried through to feeling stressed 24x7, making poor food choices and not exercising. My weight then was not stable. It is known that stress releases hormones that cause body fat storage. I think how a person's body responds to food is more related to hormone levels than calorie levels. Perhaps a healthy person's response to overfeeding in the short term is simply for their metabolism to speed up to compensate? Obviously if the overfeeding went on for an extended period of time there is a point where the response is fat storage, hence obesity. In this regard I find the calories in vs calories out to be such a drastic oversimplification to be not at all useful.
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby Mulger bill » Thu May 16, 2013 7:08 pm

winstonw wrote:...and that's usually 2-4% cordial (and salt) in my bottles,...

:shock:
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby twizzle » Thu May 16, 2013 7:31 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:In this regard I find the calories in vs calories out to be such a drastic oversimplification to be not at all useful.

Have a look for thermic effects of foods. There are some interesting studies out there showing that obese people have a very different metabolic response to fats than thin people, when taken in isolation or mixed with protein/carbohydrates.

On the expenditure side - people who diet or exercise for weight loss will have significantly slower metabolic rates, so basal calorie estimates are just a stab in the dark.

And for those of us with power meters, TSS scores have been proven to be associated with glycogen usage, so we have a better idea of the source of energy used for riding. I guess you could do the same thing with TRIMP scores. Either way, it's all pretty random.
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby winstonw » Thu May 16, 2013 9:22 pm

twizzle wrote:I put on about 1 - 1.5kg after a hard race, supposedly fluid retention from damaged muscles. Usually gone after a day or two.

Any diet that forces you have to watch your food intake obsessively is probably ignoring all of the recent research (ie. last ten years) that "suggests" that the balance of hormone levels is what drives your "stable" weight and dieting and exercise as the primary means of weight control are counterproductive. No - can't be arsed linking the science.


so please tell which hormones are being monitored, obsessively or not, to help pro/elite amateur athletes/teams control bodyweight.

yes there are psychoneurohormonal influenced bodyweight set points...but to suggest monitoring hormone levels is superior to behavioral, diet, and exercise interventions to manage bodyweight, is fluffing around with science fiction.
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby twizzle » Thu May 16, 2013 9:51 pm

winstonw wrote:
twizzle wrote:I put on about 1 - 1.5kg after a hard race, supposedly fluid retention from damaged muscles. Usually gone after a day or two.

Any diet that forces you have to watch your food intake obsessively is probably ignoring all of the recent research (ie. last ten years) that "suggests" that the balance of hormone levels is what drives your "stable" weight and dieting and exercise as the primary means of weight control are counterproductive. No - can't be arsed linking the science.


so please tell which hormones are being monitored, obsessively or not, to help pro/elite amateur athletes/teams control bodyweight.

yes there are psychoneurohormonal influenced bodyweight set points...but to suggest monitoring hormone levels is superior to behavioral, diet, and exercise interventions to manage bodyweight, is fluffing around with science fiction.


Take your rant elsewhere. I'm not interested in playing your games.


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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri May 17, 2013 5:26 pm

Talking about weight loss is stupid anyway. There is no point being "lighter" i.e. weighing less, if all it means is that you are so emaciated that you can't do anything anyway. I'm 187 cm weigh 85 kg. Other males my height who have more muscle than me weigh in the 90-95kg range. I don't want to be lighter, I want to be heavier. I want less fat and more muscle.

In fact, most of the people I know who want to change want to be less fat. This doesn't always translate to weighing less.

Any threads about weight loss on this forum degenerate into repetitive personal attacks between members who have had issues in the past. Weight loss threads are as pointless as helmet threads. We should ban them all and have one Mandatory weight loss/BMI/bizzare diet/random made up factoid thread sticky thingy. Or just roll this thread into the thread about nothing... :lol:
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby toolonglegs » Fri May 17, 2013 5:44 pm

The strangest thing.
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri May 17, 2013 5:57 pm

toolonglegs wrote:The strangest thing.

:wink:
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby foo on patrol » Fri May 17, 2013 6:37 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:The strangest thing.

:wink:


Yep and I'm getting a little p-oft about it to. To much crap happening lately and it sets a bad example to new and younger members! :evil:

The worst offenders are some of the older members and not only restricted to non Mods! :roll:

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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby twizzle » Fri May 17, 2013 7:41 pm

I was talking to an ex-pro, he LOST 4kg when he stopped riding at that level. His FTP was 390W at 73kg. If only I had that W/kg...
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby twizzle » Fri May 17, 2013 7:43 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:Any threads about weight loss on this forum degenerate into repetitive personal attacks between members who have had issues in the past.

Don't look at me. :roll:
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby chriscole » Sun May 19, 2013 12:09 am

twizzle wrote:I was talking to an ex-pro, he LOST 4kg when he stopped riding at that level. His FTP was 390W at 73kg. If only I had that W/kg...



Ditto... I gain weight in "winter" (whether here or in the Northern Hemisphere during our summer) when I partake of competitive XC skiing training and racing, but it's definitely not fat.
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby Marty Moose » Sun May 19, 2013 9:46 am

winstonw wrote:
twizzle wrote:I put on about 1 - 1.5kg after a hard race, supposedly fluid retention from damaged muscles. Usually gone after a day or two.

Any diet that forces you have to watch your food intake obsessively is probably ignoring all of the recent research (ie. last ten years) that "suggests" that the balance of hormone levels is what drives your "stable" weight and dieting and exercise as the primary means of weight control are counterproductive. No - can't be arsed linking the science.


so please tell which hormones are being monitored, obsessively or not, to help pro/elite amateur athletes/teams control bodyweight.

yes there are psychoneurohormonal influenced bodyweight set points...but to suggest monitoring hormone levels is superior to behavioral, diet, and exercise interventions to manage bodyweight, is fluffing around with science fiction.

Winston can be sharp at times for sure he does have a razor after all:). I don't see a rant in his post at all just several questions and good ones at that. If you can't be arsed " to post up a link or some form of evidence then why post.

I'm sitting here watching one of the major tours that are being televised ATM, I know one of the riders who is riding just a little!! He does weigh himself every day and do just what Winston says and is lean.

Not a personal attack Twiz so please don't take it as one. However you are often on about your w//kg and how you are to heavy but you don't follow what works to loose weight based on what I have read. Not knowing you personally and your far from normal dietry requirements is hard to judge. This is really not rocket science, weigh yourself everyday and eat less calories than you need. You will loose weight, you can't put on weight (fat) if you eat less than you need its just not possible.

End rant :)

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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby twizzle » Sun May 19, 2013 1:29 pm

Marty Moose wrote:I don't see a rant in his post at all just several questions and good ones at that. If you can't be arsed " to post up a link or some form of evidence then why post.


What I posted and what he then tried to twist it into was just another example of his strawman attacks. Given the often contradictory studies and amount of crap you would have to read, why would I bother posting up pages of links to be crucified for the contradictions? People can do their own damned reading.

Fact : A protein calorie leaves you with less free glucose than a starch calorie. Therefore, calorie counting is a flawed weight control method.

As for pro cyclists, read the intro to Allen Lim's recipe book and what he thinks of pro-team nutrition.

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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby twizzle » Sun May 19, 2013 10:07 pm

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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby warthog1 » Mon May 20, 2013 9:51 am

Marty Moose wrote:Winston can be sharp at times for sure he does have a razor after all:). I don't see a rant in his post at all just several questions and good ones at that. If you can't be arsed " to post up a link or some form of evidence then why post.



Read any of WW's posts on training where Alex Simmons is involved and you will see plenty of straw man arguments and personal attacks from WW, very little evidence based discussion from him. This from a bloke who is very green in training and racing, attacking an accomplished rider and coach. The only way that would be acceptable was if there was evidence to support his POV. There was not.
Twizzle's response was a very wise one IMO :|
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby winstonw » Mon May 20, 2013 11:03 am

warthog1 wrote:Read any of WW's posts on training where Alex Simmons is involved and you will see plenty of straw man arguments and personal attacks from WW, very little evidence based discussion from him. This from a bloke who is very green in training and racing, attacking an accomplished rider and coach. The only way that would be acceptable was if there was evidence to support his POV. There was not.
Twizzle's response was a very wise one IMO :|


Rubbish! you just are not objective or erudite enough to judge impartially...and your ignorance is the basis of the trash thoughts above.
Every day I have to try and fix the errors of "accomplished riders and coaches", whose egos inflate their sense of expertise beyond their education and experience.
I'll take Tim Kerrison's advice on cycling over Alex's anyday, and based on Tim's time on a bike, guys like you and Twizzle and many others here, would be righting him off as some wet behind the ears upstart.
Last edited by winstonw on Mon May 20, 2013 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby warthog1 » Mon May 20, 2013 11:14 am

Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor from William of Ockham, and in Latin lex parsimoniae) is a principle of parsimony, economy, or succinctness used in logic and problem-solving. It states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected

:)
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby twizzle » Mon May 20, 2013 1:01 pm

winstonw wrote:Rubbish! you just are not objective or erudite enough to judge impartially...and your ignorance is the basis of the trash thoughts above.
Every day I have to try and fix the errors of "accomplished riders and coaches", whose egos inflate their sense of expertise beyond their education and experience.
I'll take Tim Kerrison's advice on cycling over Alex's anyday, and based on Tim's time on a bike, guys like you and Twizzle and many others here, would be righting him off as some wet behind the ears upstart.


That would be "writing him off", not "righting". I'm sure he hasn't fallen over.
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby clackers » Mon May 20, 2013 9:18 pm

twizzle wrote:
Fact : A protein calorie leaves you with less free glucose than a starch calorie. Therefore, calorie counting is a flawed weight control .


With this you've descended into quackery, Twizzle.

Do explain this in terms of weight loss, please.
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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby twizzle » Mon May 20, 2013 9:35 pm

clackers wrote:
twizzle wrote:
Fact : A protein calorie leaves you with less free glucose than a starch calorie. Therefore, calorie counting is a flawed weight control .


With this you've descended into quackery, Twizzle.

Do explain this in terms of weight loss, please.


What needs explaining?


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Re: Weight loss through cycling

Postby gururug » Mon May 20, 2013 11:05 pm

I find it helps to ride in the arvo / early evening too.
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