Protein + cycling

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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby chriscole » Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:57 pm

MarkG wrote:
chriscole wrote:Eat normal food. Enough to meet your energy requirements. No need for protein supplements if you're functionally omnivorous.

Eat bananas.

Wear a helmet.

Move on... :-)



So is that 39 bananas like our mate on here? :)



If you can manage 39 bananas in one sitting, go for it.... then drop by my hospital so I can check your potassium level, coz I'd be quite interested :-)

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by BNA » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:10 pm

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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby winstonw » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:10 pm

chriscole wrote:If you can manage 39 bananas in one sitting, go for it.... then drop by my hospital so I can check your potassium level, coz I'd be quite interested :-)

Chris


I'd like to know your hospital's name....because if it hasn't been capable of informing you of the lethal dose of bananas for people with healthy renal function, I want to avoid it.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:15 pm

39 Banana's = 425,568mg of Fructose (according to the internet, so you know its true)
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby nescius » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:45 pm

I once tried to consume five large bananas in one sitting, I was young and foolish and I thought that if one banana was good then five must be great. I know for a fact that my body will not tolerate eating that many bananas at once. It was not a pleasant experience.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby clackers » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:12 am

nescius wrote:I once tried to consume five large bananas in one sitting, I was young and foolish and I thought that if one banana was good then five must be great. I know for a fact that my body will not tolerate eating that many bananas at once. It was not a pleasant experience.


Oh, dear. Came out faster than they went in, presumably.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby chriscole » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:02 am

winstonw wrote:
chriscole wrote:If you can manage 39 bananas in one sitting, go for it.... then drop by my hospital so I can check your potassium level, coz I'd be quite interested :-)

Chris


I'd like to know your hospital's name....because if it hasn't been capable of informing you of the lethal dose of bananas for people with healthy renal function, I want to avoid it.



In someone with normal renal function who's not taking any medications which lower GFR, affect potassium-handling in the nephron, or alter the sensitivity of cardiac myocytes to small changes in serum [K+], it should be almost impossible to ingest enough bananas to knock yourself off via hyperkalaemia.

Thus, knowing the LD50 for bananas isn't really a high priority on most emergency physician's "things I need to know" list.

Interestingly, a chick with a serious banana fetish did the hard yards (inadvertently) for medical science, and showed that 20 bananas a day for prolonged periods does indeed raise one's serum potassium level, but not that much. Mind you, when it was measured, her body was probably pretty well-adapted to the consistent huge K+ intake. Acutely, you might expect a slightly different picture, though renal handling of K+ is rapidly adaptive.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17194559

And an older person with renal dysfunction and a combination of nephrotoxic medications who died with profound hyperkalaemia thought to be secondary to banana obsession.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17194559

Anecdotally, I've seen a couple of patients with significant (i.e. causing ECG changes +/- dysrhythmias) hyperkalaemia secondary to scoffing high-K+ foods, but they were in the setting of older folk with mild renal impairment to start with (and it was grapes, and apricots, not bananas). :-)
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby Tim » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:23 am

Very interesting. A lethal dosage for bananas.
I heard it was about 30 a day.
Banana obsession, what a beauty. People are weird.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby winstonw » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:47 am

chriscole wrote:Thus, knowing the LD50 for bananas isn't really a high priority on most emergency physician's "things I need to know" list.


True, because an emergency physician would know oral KCl LD50 is about 85x higher than IV LD50, and that even 100 bananas a day is not an issue, esp when 100 could not be eaten quickly enough.

Rather, emergency physicians should be raising the alarm about high protein diets and supplement use, which are known to accelerate decline in renal function.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:12 am

Tim wrote:Very interesting. A lethal dosage for bananas.
I heard it was about 30 a day.
Banana obsession, what a beauty. People are weird.

On my now mild banana fetish I would be dead many times over then... I have 10 or so for breakie, same for lunch ... Plus another 10 at other times... Plus a pile of other fruit.
Stuck at an airport hotel at the mo... 24 hours banana free!... Lol.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby winstonw » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:11 am

Another banana thing - in mild climate conditions, a cyclist can lose half a banana's worth of potassium in their sweat every hour.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby Tim » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:37 am

toolonglegs wrote:Stuck at an airport hotel at the mo... 24 hours banana free!... Lol.


Don't despair!
Help is at hand.
Bananas Anonymous have weekly meetings in most capital cities.
Alcohol will relieve withdrawals.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby warthog1 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:48 am

I am lucky where I live there are some very good national level cyclists. Speaking with one who has been going very well, he said he has been told to back his training load down as his iron level is reduced. He is not a vegetarian but doesn't eat red meat and AFAIK not alot of white meat. His words; part of the problem is limited dietary iron intake.
Anyway I read these:

cycling tips

and

bike radar

I couldn't be flocked researching any more than that tbh, but I wonder how you banana botherers :P go getting the iron you need.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby winstonw » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:48 pm

warthog1 wrote:I am lucky where I live there are some very good national level cyclists. Speaking with one who has been going very well, he said he has been told to back his training load down as his iron level is reduced. He is not a vegetarian but doesn't eat red meat and AFAIK not alot of white meat. His words; part of the problem is limited dietary iron intake.


next time you see him, ask how much coffee and tea he drinks.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby warthog1 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:00 pm

winstonw wrote:
next time you see him, ask how much coffee and tea he drinks.


I will, but I am assuming it is not alot given he was drinking a hot chocolate whilst the rest of us had coffee.
Myself otoh, about 6 coffes a day I reckon

I don't see him alot as his racing schedule is fairly heavy and at his level he has his own training program that doesn't include too many bunch rides.
I am an aging never was also, who is new to the town, so there are more interesting people to talk to than me. :lol:
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:45 pm

warthog1 wrote:I am lucky where I live there are some very good national level cyclists. Speaking with one who has been going very well, he said he has been told to back his training load down as his iron level is reduced. He is not a vegetarian but doesn't eat red meat and AFAIK not alot of white meat. His words; part of the problem is limited dietary iron intake.

I couldn't be flocked researching any more than that tbh, but I wonder how you banana botherers :P go getting the iron you need.

Good question. Here is some info from an actual authority on the subject.
However, if a vegetarian diet is not carefully designed to include foods such as nuts, seeds, green vegetables, beans, and whole grains, then levels of calcium, iron, zinc, and protein could be low.

For example, iron deficiency anemia has been reported in some macrobiotic vegetarians who followed a very restrictive diet and consumed a diet with rice as their staple food. This would not have occurred if these individuals ate more green vegetables and beans which contain adequate iron.

http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/article5.aspx
Men typically do not need iron supplementation on a
vegan diet. Leafy greens are an often overlooked but rich
source of iron. Typically, greens are eaten in small serving
sizes that do not supply adequate iron, but athletes who consume
large portions of greens in vegetable-based meals,
smoothies, and shakes will receive the benefit of extra protein
and iron from those greens. One pound of kale alone
provides almost 8 mg of iron. Clearly, iron content is not
low on a nutritarian-style vegan diet, but a vegan diet using
grain products and protein powders as major calorie sources
without attention to including iron-rich plant foods could
contribute to suboptimal athletic performance. Iron-rich
plant foods include spinach, asparagus, swiss chard, broccoli
rabe, bok choy, tofu, lentils, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, and
soybeans.


http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/vegan_athlete.pdf

I think sitting down and eating a pound of kale is pretty unrealistic... :wink:
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby warthog1 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:53 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:Good question. Here is some info from an actual authority on the subject.


Thanks. :)
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:11 am

toolonglegs wrote:
Tim wrote:Very interesting. A lethal dosage for bananas.
I heard it was about 30 a day.
Banana obsession, what a beauty. People are weird.

On my now mild banana fetish I would be dead many times over then... I have 10 or so for breakie, same for lunch ... Plus another 10 at other times... Plus a pile of other fruit.
Stuck at an airport hotel at the mo... 24 hours banana free!... Lol.


Go to the Bar and ask for a Banana Daiquiri TLL. :lol:

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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:12 am

Good call foo! ;-)
I found my bananas on the shore of lake Como today :-) :-) :-) ... Life's tough!.
I was vegetarian from aged 19 till 42... My iron was always well with in the normal range without ever thinking about it... So we're all my other levels.
But seeing how I go I will get a blood test after 6 months.
PS... Dinner tonight was a vegans dream... Well apart from all the meat eaters sitting next to me lol.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby winstonw » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:06 am

toolonglegs wrote:Good call foo! ;-)
I found my bananas on the shore of lake Como today :-) :-) :-) ... Life's tough!.
I was vegetarian from aged 19 till 42... My iron was always well with in the normal range without ever thinking about it... So we're all my other levels.
But seeing how I go I will get a blood test after 6 months.
PS... Dinner tonight was a vegans dream... Well apart from all the meat eaters sitting next to me lol.


what made you a vego at 19yo TLL?
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:59 pm

I didn't eat much red meat before that, but when I went to London I was in a house with 20 others... Many alternate life styles... I just sort of fell into it, later on a became much more strict... Close to vegan.
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby chriscole » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:47 pm

winstonw wrote:
chriscole wrote:Thus, knowing the LD50 for bananas isn't really a high priority on most emergency physician's "things I need to know" list.


True, because an emergency physician would know oral KCl LD50 is about 85x higher than IV LD50, and that even 100 bananas a day is not an issue, esp when 100 could not be eaten quickly enough.

Rather, emergency physicians should be raising the alarm about high protein diets and supplement use, which are known to accelerate decline in renal function.



Nah, some of us would rather just let natural selection run its course... ;-)
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby chriscole » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:51 pm

winstonw wrote:
chriscole wrote:Thus, knowing the LD50 for bananas isn't really a high priority on most emergency physician's "things I need to know" list.


True, because an emergency physician would know oral KCl LD50 is about 85x higher than IV LD50, and that even 100 bananas a day is not an issue, esp when 100 could not be eaten quickly enough.

Rather, emergency physicians should be raising the alarm about high protein diets and supplement use, which are known to accelerate decline in renal function.



....and if you're going to be a contrary, snarky bugger, at least get your facts straight. The oral LD50 for KCl is approximately 15 to 20 times (w/w) the IV LD50 for the same salt, depending on which mammalian model you use to obtain the data.

:-)
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby chriscole » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:24 am

casual_cyclist wrote:
warthog1 wrote:I am lucky where I live there are some very good national level cyclists. Speaking with one who has been going very well, he said he has been told to back his training load down as his iron level is reduced. He is not a vegetarian but doesn't eat red meat and AFAIK not alot of white meat. His words; part of the problem is limited dietary iron intake.

I couldn't be flocked researching any more than that tbh, but I wonder how you banana botherers :P go getting the iron you need.

Good question. Here is some info from an actual authority on the subject.
However, if a vegetarian diet is not carefully designed to include foods such as nuts, seeds, green vegetables, beans, and whole grains, then levels of calcium, iron, zinc, and protein could be low.

For example, iron deficiency anemia has been reported in some macrobiotic vegetarians who followed a very restrictive diet and consumed a diet with rice as their staple food. This would not have occurred if these individuals ate more green vegetables and beans which contain adequate iron.

http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/article5.aspx
Men typically do not need iron supplementation on a
vegan diet. Leafy greens are an often overlooked but rich
source of iron. Typically, greens are eaten in small serving
sizes that do not supply adequate iron, but athletes who consume
large portions of greens in vegetable-based meals,
smoothies, and shakes will receive the benefit of extra protein
and iron from those greens. One pound of kale alone
provides almost 8 mg of iron. Clearly, iron content is not
low on a nutritarian-style vegan diet, but a vegan diet using
grain products and protein powders as major calorie sources
without attention to including iron-rich plant foods could
contribute to suboptimal athletic performance. Iron-rich
plant foods include spinach, asparagus, swiss chard, broccoli
rabe, bok choy, tofu, lentils, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, and
soybeans.


http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/vegan_athlete.pdf

I think sitting down and eating a pound of kale is pretty unrealistic... :wink:




Baked beans, baby... Lots of iron. And the jet-propulsion / "wind assist" while cycling is just a bonus... ;-)
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby variable » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:54 pm

Was just curious to see besides the aforementioned rice+pea protein powder and whey, what some other preferred protein sources where? What is the least expensive (but still effective)?
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Re: Protein + cycling

Postby gabrielle260 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:28 pm

Has anyone talked about taste?
Pea protein was the single worst tasting supplement/powder I have ever had. I got the chocolate flavoured one and it really was like pouring a bad chocolate milk shake over mushy peas!
One of my shaker makers still smells slightly of peas. Never again!
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