Breakfast?

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Breakfast?

Postby variable » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:36 pm

Looking for a discussion as to whether you all eat breakfast before your first ride of the day? I have heard that riding on an empty stomach means you'll burn more fat and that breakfast doesn't really 'get your metabolism going' as is often said.

I realize that from a performance perspective eating breakfast is going to give you more energy. But if you are cycling for weight loss?
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by BNA » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:46 pm

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Re: Breakfast?

Postby RonK » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:46 pm

Never. I'm not cycling for weight loss, I just don't feel like eating at 5am.

I can ride at least 60km before feeling my energy level drop.
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby sminns » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:33 pm

What you eat the day before fuels your morning ride so you only need water first up
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby barefoot » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:25 pm

I don't eat before midday (as I have written about over on the big loser thread). That includes my 20 minute commute every day, and was including a hilly 30-40km bunch ride two mornings a week earlier in the year (now down to one ride most weeks... winter... meh).

I was heading out for longer Saturday morning rides without eating (70-80km), and surviving... but I was finding that I would bonk on the way back to town. Especially on rides where the heros of the group would step up the pace for an extended paceline run and sprint on the way back... I wasn't the first to be dropped, but I did get dropped a few times because I had nothing left.

More recently, I've been drinking a protein shake while I kit up for Saturday rides. The group is a bit weaker over winter, but I've been spending more time at the head of the bunch and not come close to being dropped. There's a fair bit of glucose in the stuff I currently use (and other magic that may or may not do anything... I bought it mainly for the protein (which also may or may not do anything). Seems to make a big difference for those longer rides.

My bunch rides quite early, so even the long ones get me home around normal family breakfast time. Which I don't eat. And I don't eat on the bike (unless I'm out on an all-dayer).

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Re: Breakfast?

Postby biker jk » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:54 pm

I always eat breakfast whether riding 30km or 200km. Why wouldn't you?
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby clackers » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:30 pm

variable wrote: I have heard that riding on an empty stomach means you'll burn more fat and that breakfast doesn't really 'get your metabolism going' as is often said.


What you burn is dictated by your exercise effort.

For aerobic exercise, it'll be overwhelmingly glycogen, and not fat.

At any time of the day. :grin:

Ignore the Fasted loons, but you do wake up each morning with 90-120 minutes of fuel already there.

The breakfast is more about fuel for the rest of your day.
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby variable » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:35 pm

Don't you mean anaerobic burns glycogen? And aerobic burns fat?
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby clackers » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:47 pm

variable wrote:Don't you mean anaerobic burns glycogen? And aerobic burns fat?


No! :grin:

Statement A is true, Statement B is mostly wrong.

Fat can't be combined with oxygen quickly enough to provide your aerobic needs.

But it will be used later on by your body to replenish your glycogen, if you don't do additional eating.

That's what it's for - storage.
Last edited by clackers on Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby variable » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:52 pm

I've always heard you burn more fat in a low intensity workout and more carbs in a high intensity one. No?
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby barefoot » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:54 pm

biker jk wrote:I always eat breakfast whether riding 30km or 200km. Why wouldn't you?


1000 kJ + is a good start.

I'm repeating myself a bit, from the fatties thread, but I came across the idea of fasting when I was searching for ideas of what breakfast I could eat to avoid getting hungry late morning (and, inevitably, hitting the junk food to tide me over until lunch). A few forum posts and blogs and whatever gave anecdotes of people who had solved the same problem by simply not eating anything at all.

I had little confidence it would work, so I held off on breakfast one morning and brought it to work to eat when I got hungry. Which didn't happen until about a month later, when I ate a banana before my early ride one day (after many other morning rides without food, when I didn't get hungry).

I've come to the conclusion that I don't get hungry until I start eating.

So, for me, it's an easy choice. I can eat a big (and IMO quite uninspiring / unappetising) breakfast, then spend the morning gnawing at my desk watching the clock until lunchtime, or I can just have a cup of tea for breakfast, feel fine until lunchtime, suffer no detrimental effects... and as an aside, reduce my daily energy intake by a significant amount. Which I can choose to take as a free ticket to weight loss, or I can choose to make up for by eating more later in the day - including stuff that's a whole lot more appealing than a bowl full of soggy Weet-bix in milk.

There's a bit of a cult mentality around the nutritional fad of "intermittent fasting". Which is a buzzword that essentially boils down to not eating for bigger-than-normal chunks of time. Devotees and pseudo-scientists call tell you all about the hormone and enzyme and endocrine and magic voodoo response to fasting, and how it's going to make you live for ever (and as an aside, give you aaaaaahsome ripped abs, bro). If there's any substance to the claims, it's a bonus.

I'm just happy because I'm not getting hungry in the mornings. And I'm losing weight, slowly, without trying (or maintaining my weight while eating like a goddamn pig and not caring... between midday and 8pm... give or take a bit on the odd occasion, who's counting anyway).

Only downside has been the bonk on long rides. So I now eat like a normal person on long ride days. *shrug*.

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Re: Breakfast?

Postby clackers » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:57 pm

variable wrote:I've always heard you burn more fat in a low intensity workout and more carbs in a high intensity one. No?


Correct.

But the weight loss because of a calorie at any intensity level is the same.

That's because if you burn a carb for glycogen, fat will be used up later on to replace it.

It's a balance over time.

So do more, eat less! :grin:
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby clackers » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:01 pm

barefoot wrote:
Only downside has been the bonk on long rides. So I now eat like a normal person on long ride days. *shrug*.


You're being realistic, Tim. More power to you.

barefoot wrote:
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Touche! :smile:
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:31 pm

clackers wrote:
variable wrote:I've always heard you burn more fat in a low intensity workout and more carbs in a high intensity one. No?


Correct.

But the weight loss because of a calorie at any intensity level is the same.

That's because if you burn a carb for glycogen, fat will be used up later on to replace it.

It's a balance over time.

So do more, eat less! :grin:


Depends what you eat :P
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby cyclotaur » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:49 pm

barefoot wrote:..... stuff that's a whole lot more appealing than a bowl full of soggy Weet-bix in milk.

tim
fasted loon :lol:

Hey, that's my breakfast !! :lol: Well more or less...

I mostly ride later in the morning so I have a normal breakfast most days. On early, longer weekend rides, though, I have a reduced feed before leaving home often consisting of ...er, one or two soggy Weet-bix in milk...maybe with a dribble of honey. :mrgreen:

I learnt the lesson early on when, like barefoot, I bonked coming home from a long, fast, hard, hot ride to the 'Nongs. I usually get home around late morning and eat for a few hours ... :roll:
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby queequeg » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:06 pm

I rarely eat before I ride. I never eat before my commute as it is only an hour, and I hate eating at 5am.

If I am doing a 100km+ ride I will take a banana with me for a mid-ride snack, drink plenty of water, but I'll stop somewhere on the ride and have a bacon & egg roll and a coffee, then cruise home. I not training for anything so it doesn't matter so much. I ride over 250km a week just commuting so my body is used to riding on an empty stomach.
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby VRE » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:24 am

RonK wrote:Never. I'm not cycling for weight loss, I just don't feel like eating at 5am.

I can ride at least 60km before feeling my energy level drop.

Ditto here. I'll just get up, have a small drink of water, do my 30km commute to work, then have a coffee (or 2) and a muffin. Then I'm fine until lunch time. However, when I first increased my round-trip commute to 60km, I had the occasional attack of nausea during the morning commutes, but over the last few years I've gotten used to it, and don't need to eat any more than normal.
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby marinmomma » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:01 am

Yes, always, what will depend on what the purpose of my ride is...

Recovery spin it's just a banana +/- a muesli bar of some type.
If its to do climbing or interval work then definitely the banana and bar

If I'm heading out to race or do a longer training ride with hills its my gluten free muesli with yoghurt some fruit and maple syrup on top eaten at least an hour before starting the ride and will take a muesli bar and a date and nut raw food bar to eating during the ride or before/after the race.

I never used to eat before rides but that changed last year when I started getting a little more serious with intensity and distance and the number of k's per week
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby bychosis » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:38 am

I like to start the day with breakfast, big bowl of weetbix (5-6) is nice and simple. Usually try to get at least half hour before riding.

A while back I was going to the gym for a 6am session, then back home for breakfast, shower then work. After a couple of sessions I felt terrible, but throwing down a small breaky (2weetbix) 15 min before the class helped massively, followed by the rest of breaky when back home before worko.
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby michael_w » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:33 pm

I, like others, don't feel like eating when I first get up. I don't faff about at home in the morning. The alarm goes off and I'm up and about getting ready to leave. Either PT or carpooling to the beginning of the commute and then it's 18-20 km ride and I'll eat something after I've showered.

Even on weekend rides I don't eat breakfast before leaving and will take a banana +/- muesli bar.
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby landscapecadmonkey » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:43 pm

I must have something to eat / drink within 30 mins of rising.

1. cardio ride <30mins intensive. only 3 glasses of water before ride (HIIT type ride) Apparently best for burning fat. Must eat when returning (refer below) though.
2. commute only mornings = 30 mins intensive too. eat b'fast at last 40 mins before (refer below) for fuel till mid morning.

Breakfast: i was a long time porridge man (oats and milk) for 15+ years. Flicked milk and grains.
Now: ALWAYS: Green smoothie. 3 Huge leaves Kale (lightly steamed), Cucumber, Ginger, Clove Garlic, Mint Leaves, Knob of ginger, 2 TS Coconut oil, 2 TS Hemp Seed, 1/8th pinapple or strawberries), water, 2 stalks celery plus magnesium supplement. Blended. Add 2 raw eggs, folded. NO MILK / DAIRY or PORRIDGE BREAD RICE. Incredible difference in demeanour, feel etc.,

Honestly : have never looked back. Losing weight (fat not muscle tone) and feeling incredible.

I think they call it a modified paleo diet, but all i did was replaced carbs with FAT and MODERATE PROTEIN and feel fantastic.

Its not a no carb regime as such, but a reduced, and simple carb diet. (all low GI stuff) But the main thing seems to be .... COOK with saturated fat (best) EAT any fat (in its simple form) in its pure form.

THought it was crazy, but did the research and have been on it now for 3mths and the change is incredble
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby variable » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:56 pm

landscapemonkey do you make that each day or make a big batch a week? Any tips for what you eat otherwise? I would like to subscribe to your newsletter :)
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby landscapecadmonkey » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:20 pm

variable wrote:landscapemonkey do you make that each day or make a big batch a week? Any tips for what you eat otherwise? I would like to subscribe to your newsletter :)

fresh each morning. again, only going on what im reading / researching, and seems that oxidation of processing foods competely roots nutrition value. But have everything ready to go each morning.... sure a little bit of extra pre-planning, but after 3 mths its easy.

Cannot tell youhow much better i feel from flicking dairy / bread and all other grains. Mightnt be everyones cup of tea - but anecdotal evidence for me is that it is a winner.

Lunch is chicken and green salad ..... spinach / rocket greens + olive oil, avocardo, ginger onion, tomatos _+ whatever salads. Dinner i have similar / honey soy chicken plus salad. I eat a shiiiiiite load of kangaroo fillet. Mix the salads up with steamed broclli / cauliflower / beans. Have gotten into FATS in a big way. Avocardo, cocunut oil, olive oil, etc. Oils = satisfying food :-)

Yep - sounds austere, but after a few mths of simple tastes / clean food - feels great.
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby cyclotaur » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:34 pm

Years ago I lost 6kg in 3 months (72>66) just reducing fat and protein and replacing with lots of fruit&veg, and wholegrains. I reckon this works well when you're younger and doing a lot of exercise (cycling, squash/tennis, running) and/or active work (field work, build a house etc) and have a young person's metabolism. I was lean, strong and had tremendous endurance (eg 2 x Murray River Marathons on zero training... no problem)

Over time, though, slowing metabolism and less intense exercise (walking...golf..gardening) and sedentary work, coupled with that high carb/lowfat&protein intake put about 18-20 kg back on (66>85). I lost 8 of that when I got back into cycling, but I think I need to change my eating habits a bit to lose any more as I've been static on 77-78 for 2 years now. I'd love to drop another 5-6kgs. In a perfect world I'd be about 70kg.

I think breakfast is my problem. I love breakfast ... I always said 'I get out of bed for breakfast ... then maybe go to work' :lol:
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby brawlo » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:20 pm

From all the discussions & literature I've read over the years, it really depends on the individual and the amount of exercise you're doing.

I don't normally do morning exercise <1hr with any food. If I train at anything over moderate intensity for >1hr I find my energy levels die off gradually. I know that everyone/most say that fuel comes from your food the previous day, but no matter what I have tried eating the day/night before, this has always been the same for me. I don't normally do more than 1 1/2 hours of exercise/riding in the morning, so if I'm going over an hour, then a banana or apple pre ride (unless the kids have cleaned out the fruit bowl and then it's a muesli bar) sees me through to the end. I always have breakfast post ride/exercise.
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Re: Breakfast?

Postby Duck! » Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:04 pm

I don't need breakfast to fuel me up for the early part of the day's activities, that's what the previous night's dinner is for. However I find that if I don't have breakfast, by mid-morning I'll be ready to eat someone, so I'll have my three pieces of toast & coffee before going anywhere and that will see me through until lunchtime.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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