Weight loss has stalled

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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby barefoot » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:47 pm

clackers wrote:For instance, you'd agree that column A of this table is very appetizing and healthy.

Image

But it does contain 400 calories more than column B. :)


That's quite misleading though. Column B portion sizes are much smaller.

3x sushi rolls and a banana is a solid lunch. I'd go there (bearing in mind I don't eat before lunch each day). One sausage roll... uh... yeah, maybe, as long as there's a pie to follow.

If I stir-fry a whole chicken breast (plus ample veggies), it feeds me, my wife, my 5-year old, and a big box of leftovers. I haven't eaten a McD burger in probably a decade, but I certainly wouldn't expect to feel sated by eating one for dinner.

Aside from breakfast, I'd reckon on eating at least double what's in Column B, or not much more than half of column A. Presenting them as comparable is silly.

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by BNA » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:02 pm

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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby clackers » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:02 pm

barefoot wrote:
Column B portion sizes are much smaller.


IMHO I think you're missing the point, Tim.

It's just an example.

In the same way that if I said, "But I don't like sushi", I would be missing the point.

With the Calorie King website or similar you can construct many possible plans and variations that don't require you to be on a hunger strike. And that can include junk food.

Portion control is at the centre of this fad diet from a while ago - cheese, bread, wine, dessert, etc.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500186_162-666429.html

You say you don't eat breakfast. I'm afraid that won't suit everyone.

You say you can feed your family for dinner with one chicken breast and only hand out enough to allow leftovers. That won't suit everyone either.

We need to find our own ways to sustain a change in habits.
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:43 pm

clackers wrote:
ausmomo wrote: I really meant "eating all I want from my quite healthy list of foods, whilst being conscious of calories". So really, it's not even close to "all I want" and I've no idea why I said it in the first bloody place!


Okay, as long as you realise that the first sentence, even revised, does contain contradiction.

The Govt is understandably keen to promote nutrition over weight loss, which can be competing goals.

For instance, you'd agree that column A of this table is very appetizing and healthy.

Image

But it does contain 400 calories more than column B. :)

You can read more at the respected Aussie Cycling Tips website: http://cyclingtips.com.au/2011/08/weight-loss-for-cyclists/

I wonder what would happen if you swapped out the sugar laden low fat yoghurt with real, plain, full fat greek yoghurt for example.

I would just change your statment to "For instance, you'd agree that column A of this table [looks] very appetizing and healthy". Looks can be deceptive.

I lost around 25kg by eating sensibly from a huge list of foods like vegetables, fruit, legumes, grains, milk, yoghurt, cheese, nuts etc. I pretty much cut out all refined sugar, refined flour and kept other processed foods to a minimum. The first thing I noticed was that the actual volume of food I had to eat each day was massive, it made my jaws hurt to chew that much and by the end of the day I actually felt tired of eating. The second things I noticed was that I didn't feel hungry all the time. The third thing was that I didn't have to eat on a schedule. If I felt sort of hungry but had to wait one or two hours to eat I didn't feel like I was dying like before. However, it did take organisation and planning ahead and since I stopped doing that and reverted to processed foods, a couple of kilos has crept back on over the last few months. I am getting myself organised to eat nutritious food again, more for my health than for my waist. Note that this is eating for nutrition, not eating for weight loss. So, with weight loss as the result of a healthy diet, not the goal of dieting, I found myself only "losing" 1 to 2 kilograms a month. I know it seems slow but at the 12 month mark and ~15kg gone, it seemed pretty effective to me. Especially for not being hungry all the time. That was the best thing.
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby clackers » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:00 pm

casual_cyclist wrote: Note that this is eating for nutrition, not eating for weight loss.


Sounds good to me.

The two goals can be at odds (the AIS staff were concerned in particular that some of the female athletes were not eating the carbs needed for performance because of a fear they weren't thin enough as they were).

But with planning they don't have to be.
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby Xplora » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:42 pm

Casual C, something Joe Friel mentioned in a recent blog while he was on the high fat diet over the last 12 months, was that he was much more inclined to eat leftovers for breakfast. I think if your goal is to avoid grains, or processed foods, then you need to have a supply of food ready to go because hunger is mostly physiological and you can't stop it. It's guided totally by your head, but you can't breathe deeply to make the hunger go away.

It's a terrible example, but I've been trying to adopt a more Paleo diet than I've had in the past and found last night's grilled sausage was just the ticket to ensure I kept protein going into the belly during the morning. I had some leftover salad from a few days ago as a snack while I was cooking dinner last night... leftovers really seem to make snacking "well" much easier.
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby casual_cyclist » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:28 pm

Xplora wrote:Casual C, something Joe Friel mentioned in a recent blog while he was on the high fat diet over the last 12 months, was that he was much more inclined to eat leftovers for breakfast. I think if your goal is to avoid grains, or processed foods, then you need to have a supply of food ready to go because hunger is mostly physiological and you can't stop it. It's guided totally by your head, but you can't breathe deeply to make the hunger go away.

Actually, I have found that is not at all the case for me. Before I stopped eating mainly processed food, I felt severely hungry 5 or 6 times a day. I was eating 8 or 9 times a day. When I got hungry I felt like I was starving and felt weak, shaky, sick, desperate and cranky! If anyone said anything to set me off I would fly in to a rage and yell and yell for no reason. I felt like I had to eat or I would die. The food I chose to eat when I felt like that was always the most energy dense food that I could find... and by that I mean high in refined sugar. You probably think I am exaggerating. I'm not.

After switching to eating actual food, I will give you an example of how much my perception of hunger has changed. Provided I have a decent lunch, I can arrive home after work feeling hungry, go for a run, walk to the shops, buy ingredients for dinner, walk home and cook dinner from scratch and still not feel ridiculously hungry. I certainly don't feel weak or shaky and I do not feel driven to eat. So no, I can't take a deep breath and make hunger go away, but I can defer eating to a suitable time if hunger feels gentle as opposed to feeling raging hunger. I also did a 24 hour fast on just water, no food or drinks and at no point did I feel anything close to what I used to endure 5 or 6 times every day. To me, the quality of food is far more important than the quantity of food.

For a different reason, I 100% agree with your comment "I think if your goal is to avoid grains, or processed foods, then you need to have a supply of food ready to go..." Definitely. The reason is that if the food is on my desk, in my fridge or in my cupboard ready to eat, I will eat it, I won't put the effort into seeking out energy dense alternatives... because that would be too much work. However, if there is no nutritionally dense food ready to go, I will eat whatever energy dense food is around.

It's not just me who has experienced a different perception of hunger on a nutrient dense diet. This has been studied...

http://toyourhealthnutrition.blogspot.com.au/2010/02/toxic-hunger-main-cause-of-obesity-by.html
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby Xplora » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:08 pm

It does strike me that whatever food is available, that is what you'll eat - been super hungry today (big day on the bike yesterday) despite eating 4-5 potatos worth of mash (I'm only 70 kgs, that's nuts) so I snacked on nuts and all sorts of stuff. Need to make salad tomorrow but I'm home with the boys so it'll probably be dicey hehehe
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby clackers » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:28 am

Xplora wrote:It does strike me that whatever food is available, that is what you'll eat


I think hungerwise everyone's different, Xplora, which makes specific advice not universally applicable.

I can genuinely have one Tim Tam from a temptingly open packet sitting next to me all day, and that' s it.

But a packet of Barbecue Shapes will be absolutely smashed. :D

Nothing to do with leptin, insulin or ghrelin or whatever someone proposes in a book they're trying to sell.

It's probably more to do with a state of mind reverting to me as a teenager having a great time on the couch with my family and friends, watching videos, pigging out on snack food along the way.

A psychological habit, not a chemical compulsion. :)
Last edited by clackers on Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby ausmomo » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:25 am

clackers wrote:I can genuinely have one Tim Tam from a temptingly open packet sitting next to me all day, and that' s it.


freak...
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby clackers » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:41 am

ausmomo wrote:
clackers wrote:I can genuinely have one Tim Tam from a temptingly open packet sitting next to me all day, and that' s it.


freak...


Lol.
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby TREKKER_MIKE » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:18 pm

Sushi is high in calories with the carbs. and your body needs carbs

but the problem is the Sushi rice is not LOW GI, f you love your caffeine, low GI wont be as effective, as you want to slow the metabolic rate so you stay fuller for longer, caffeine boost and speeds it up, making you hungry sooner

So you can eat three, and be hungry again soon after.

you could have 1-2 with brown rice, and be sustained for most of the afternoon.

Brown rice has more calories, but you wouldnt need to eat as much.

I like LOW GI, but you need to be disciplined so you dont snack and if you love your caffeine, low GI wont be as effective, as you want to slow the metabolic rate so you stay fuller for longer, caffeine boost and speeds it up, making you hungry sooner

ALSO - 4 weetbix - thats alot of calories too, i am a big boy, and i can have 2 weetbix, light sprinkle of all bran and 250ml of skim milk and be satisfied for 4 hours, plus you can add fruit to it as well if you want some flavor. If i tried to have 4 i would feel soo bloated.

My favorite after morning ride is 1 slice wholemean/multi toast, 1 egg/2 egg white omlette loaded with baby spinach, tomato, capsicum (any veggie you want). plenty of protein for the after workout, and same, i get about 3-4 hours before i need another feed
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby barefoot » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:49 pm

TREKKER_MIKE wrote:ALSO - 4 weetbix - thats alot of calories too, i am a big boy, and i can have 2 weetbix, light sprinkle of all bran and 250ml of skim milk and be satisfied for 4 hours, plus you can add fruit to it as well if you want some flavor. If i tried to have 4 i would feel soo bloated.


I used to have 5 weetbix with full-fat milk, which filled me up for... about 2 hours.

Then I was watching the clock and gnawing at my desk, waiting for lunch time to arrive.

Other cereals were worse.

I came to the idea of skipping breakfast - when searching for ways to avoid being so insatiably hungry in the mornings. Seemed a stupid idea, quite counterintuitive, but I had nothing to lose by trying it. Surprisingly, it worked.

So, now I eat 2 meals a day. I don't get hungry until I start eating. Goodbye to one meal's worth of energy getting stored on my belly (give or take the bit extra I eat at lunch and dinner... because I can...).

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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:55 pm

I forgot to mention above that at one point my weight loss stalled as well. After investigating, I found out it was because I was not eating enough. I increased my food intake and weight loss resumed. This obviously won't apply to everyone who's weight loss has stalled.
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby Xplora » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:02 pm

5 weetbix?! I clearly just don't have the belly for it O_o
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby clackers » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:41 am

Xplora wrote:5 weetbix?! I clearly just don't have the belly for it O_o


Brett Lee could do it. :smile:
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby Red Rider » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:27 pm

ausmomo wrote:
clackers wrote:I can genuinely have one Tim Tam from a temptingly open packet sitting next to me all day, and that' s it.


freak...

Have a look at this documentary titled Why Are Thin People Not Fat?

And news on diet, not exrcise, plays key role in weight loss
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby clackers » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:04 pm

Well, a couple of studies don't represent a conclusion, RR.

Contradictions by other findings are even listed in your link.

Would be interested though once results are replicated in large enough samples across different teams and accepted by the academic community.

Not the NBC website! :grin:
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby Red Rider » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:16 pm

Indeed, not suggesting it is definitive, and certainly everyone is different as well. But it's always interesting to see what research is going on.

My opinion is that the body needs a reason to burn fat. And the body doesn't really burn much when you have other fuels in the system, so you need to trigger the body into burning fat by depriving it of other sources. That doesn't necessarily mean reducing calories, but the timing and size of the meals. That's a general theory that sounds reasonable.
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby clackers » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:19 pm

Red Rider wrote:
My opinion is that the body needs a reason to burn fat. And the body doesn't really burn much when you have other fuels in the system, so you need to trigger the body into burning fat by depriving it of other sources.


Hmm.

You're pretty much burning nothing but fat right now, RR, if you didn't realize it!
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby Red Rider » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:48 pm

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it :mrgreen:
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby clackers » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:15 am

Red Rider wrote:That's my theory and I'm sticking to it :mrgreen:


Lol.
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby Xplora » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:16 pm

It's not totally nuts, Red. The high fat low carb diet kinda works that way - it will be easier for your body to use the fat if there is more dietary fat available; that said, you would have to be super careful about portion control because everyone starting such a diet isn't always a Biafran doing an impression of a broom handle, and pumping more fat into an already fat system may not help.
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby clackers » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:44 pm

Xplora wrote: The high fat low carb diet kinda works that way - it will be easier for your body to use the fat if there is more dietary fat available;


Pretty shonky stuff, Xplora.

Not to be recommended.

See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-carbohydrate_diet
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby TREKKER_MIKE » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:15 am

I think nothing beats a balanced diet.

My sister did the atkins diet, she lost a tonne of weight

BUT !!!!

She was really really cranky all the time, you brain needs carbohydrates, PLUS when she finally had some carbs like a slice of bread, she exploded and packed the weight back in withing a few weeks.

The food pyramid changes all the time, but if you can ensure you have all the essential, carbs, fats and proteins and stay within a calorie count.

problem with calorie count is that it is hard to begin with and you need to persist.

I used a free app on my phone called "myfitness pal" i did see results with that, monitoring food and excercise, however you need to set it up yourself with your foods, but once it is done, you can just click on the food you eat, add it to the daily count
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Re: Weight loss has stalled

Postby casual_cyclist » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:28 am

TREKKER_MIKE wrote:The food pyramid changes all the time, but if you can ensure you have all the essential, carbs, fats and proteins and stay within a calorie count.

problem with calorie count is that it is hard to begin with and you need to persist.

Calorie counting is a bit of a vexed issue for me. If you go and have a look at the populations of the world who have access to food but have (traditionally) kept trim, they don't calorie count. All of this is documented in the "blue zone" research. Traditionally, these populations have eaten local foods but now that they are adopting western foods, they are becoming fat. Personally, I think if you need to calorie count, you are eating the wrong foods. Personally, I have lost heaps of weight by switching from junk food to nutritious foods. After a while I started eating some junk food again and have put back a couple of kilos. It's past time to swtich back to primarily nutritious foods, for my health, if nothing else.
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