Taking the knife to the knee

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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:17 am

Do it right or pay the price! :twisted:

My sister didn't listen to the Dr or me and now has to have everything redone. :roll:

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by BNA » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:46 am

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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby moosterbounce » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:46 am

I am listening!! But it's so hard to know beforehand that provided exercises will be ok for one leg but not the other. There is no way I'm risking having to get any of this redone!! Stupid knees :?
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby DoubleSpeeded » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:31 pm

im curious

was this ongoing Knee problem caused by long term Riding?
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby moosterbounce » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:42 pm

No. Hard to tear the ACL riding :) Believe one leg was caused by massive sideways impact of hockey goalkeeper to legs at speed...20ish years ago. Recently made worse by everything I was doing including running, riding, glute strengthening...a perfect storm really. The other knee went out in sympathy.

Riding delayed the inevitable bu strengthening the thighs and knees.

It has made me paranoid to set my cx bike up with the same pedals as my roadie and tt rig. I'll talk more to the surgeon (he rides) but think the same positioning for all bikes of feet may help not aggregate things. Just a gut feel at this stage though.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby DoubleSpeeded » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:15 pm

moosterbounce wrote:No. Hard to tear the ACL riding :) Believe one leg was caused by massive sideways impact of hockey goalkeeper to legs at speed...20ish years ago. Recently made worse by everything I was doing including running, riding, glute strengthening...a perfect storm really. The other knee went out in sympathy.

Riding delayed the inevitable bu strengthening the thighs and knees.

It has made me paranoid to set my cx bike up with the same pedals as my roadie and tt rig. I'll talk more to the surgeon (he rides) but think the same positioning for all bikes of feet may help not aggregate things. Just a gut feel at this stage though.


hmmm im cornered for overuse in riding thats all.

like everything, when you over-do it... your body will eventually give up the ghost.

Like my Elbow... in the past..9 yrs of weights... benching 130kg and arm curling 80kg...basically, My Elbow eventually handed in its resignation and resigned.

tendon problem for life.

being cautious now days
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby Duck! » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:22 pm

moosterbounce wrote:It has made me paranoid to set my cx bike up with the same pedals as my roadie and tt rig. I'll talk more to the surgeon (he rides) but think the same positioning for all bikes of feet may help not aggregate things. Just a gut feel at this stage though.

Not a bad thing to be thinking about anyway. Cleat position (specifically angle) is dictated by how your knees track. Having the same pedal system on all bikes makes it a lot easier to get right, because in its simplest state you only have one pair of shoes & cleats to worry about.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby moosterbounce » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:46 pm

Duck! wrote:
moosterbounce wrote:It has made me paranoid to set my cx bike up with the same pedals as my roadie and tt rig. I'll talk more to the surgeon (he rides) but think the same positioning for all bikes of feet may help not aggregate things. Just a gut feel at this stage though.

Not a bad thing to be thinking about anyway. Cleat position (specifically angle) is dictated by how your knees track. Having the same pedal system on all bikes makes it a lot easier to get right, because in its simplest state you only have one pair of shoes & cleats to worry about.


True. I'll need to do lots of experimenting. Roadie and tt bike have Time RXS pedals and I use 2 different shows. This setup has been comfortable for years and hasn't altered (tt bike is set the same as roadie despite it maybe not being optimum for tt). The cx bike (newish) has mtb pedals I took from my rarely used mtb before selling. Not a bit platform at all. I find the mtb shoes I use aren't as comfy as my road shoe position, but unsure about float etc compared to the Times. comfort doesn't mean it's detrimental.

I'm not even sure the Time's will be right when I'm all healed!! I've already got an excuse for a new bike, but maybe I'll need all new bits and pieces to go with it too ;)
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby trailgumby » Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:51 pm

At this early stage post op with both my shoulder and knee, I was told to let discomfort be my guide. If it got uncomfortable, stop. Try again the following session.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby moosterbounce » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:45 pm

It's been 7 days since the double op and I'm feeling good. Walking is fine, but when I get tired I feel wobbly and a bit twingey. I have also had some instances of feeling like my right knee may collapse, but this is disappearing more and more each day. I think this is related to everything inside settling down and working out where it is meant to sit now that some bits have been removed.

Generally, I have no actual pain. Some ache if tired, but nothing an ice pack and rest hasn't fixed. I've been able to walk more and more each day but still only 50-100m bursts. I just need to keep building on this slowly but not overdo it.

So far I'm happy with how this has all gone. I's recommend having both knees done at the same time as it hasn't seemed to make much difference to me - maybe because I had strong thighs and knees from cycling to assist recovery.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby wombatK » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:25 pm

moosterbounce wrote: Walking is fine, but when I get tired I feel wobbly and a bit twingey. I have also had some instances of feeling like my right knee may collapse

Hmm, that happens to me after a glass or three of red. Maybe you should try some too, and you'd never know there was anything wrong with the knee :).

Very sensible not to overdo things - you're making great progress and pushing it too hard can be very counter-productive.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby moosterbounce » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:53 pm

All stitches are out, no sign of infection, healed beautifully. Mr Moo is impressed by the lack of scarring, but agrees my modeling career is probably over. My dreams are in tatters ;)

Hurts when I walk too much though so still trying to find the daily balance point for this. I'm allowed on the trainer - no load, 5-10 mins. I'll be heading to the physio this week for a strengthening program.

Still think both knees was a good move, but I'm seeing the rehab will take a bit longer as both can cope with different amounts of exercise on different days and I don't have a good leg to fall back on to take some of the load off the bad one.

Considering its only been 10 days, I should just loosen up and let things happen as they need to. I have another week off work to physio and work on my walking before having to be a real person again.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby foo on patrol » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:54 am

Good to hear.:grin:

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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby moosterbounce » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:34 pm

2 weeks and 1 day after my surgery, I'm back on the bike. Physio said I could do 5x1 minute with no load which I successfully completed today. 1.2km total!! I know it's small, but it's a pedal in the right direction.

I'm now walking up to 15 minutes 3 times per day (as well as around the house type walking), doing some strengthening exercises, and swimming. I'm pretty happy where things are at. Next goals are ride on the road; be allowed to kick when I swim; and walk 5km straight.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby briztoon » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:32 pm

Small steps and small circles. I'm jealous. :mrgreen:

Continued good luck with your rehab.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby moosterbounce » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:35 pm

Thanks Briz. You are making progress and shouldn't lose sight of that :) How's things with you currently? Is there a thread with an update on how you're going that I've missed?
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby briztoon » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:59 pm

Haven't updated anything. I'm just out and walking and trying to regain some fitness. I can't believe how fast I've lost all fitness and conditioning. I see my ortho surgeon next week in regards to my shoulder, I hope to be referred to a physio so I can start some structured rehab.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby moosterbounce » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:13 pm

briztoon wrote:Haven't updated anything. I'm just out and walking and trying to regain some fitness. I can't believe how fast I've lost all fitness and conditioning.


I hear ya!! I don't feel like myself with 5 minutes of riding and a 15 minute walk!! And that's on a good day (ie not today :( ). You'll get there soon enough Briz.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby winstonw » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:30 pm

mooster, if you are overweight or have a cr$p diet, now's the time to sort that.
and with summer coming on, swimming freestyle and backstroke (not breastroke) with flippers, are excellent for rehab for knees like yours, and getting your cardio back. talk to your physio about it.

did the surgeon give you advice about future physical activity? i.e. did he say you would be able to jog and go on backpacking expeditions!
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby moosterbounce » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:40 pm

The physio advised me to swim, but not to kick at this stage. I can do a couple of laps with flippers, but considering I was swimming up to 3km (pull buoy) 4 weeks ago, he was probably trying to temper my enthusiasm!! I've swum twice since being given the go ahead and 1km with 5x1min deep water running is enough for now. I'll need to up the distance though as, if I can manage it, I am scheduled to do the mandurah HIM swim in early November!!

The future is a little grey currently. Prior to the surgery, the surgeon saw no reason why HIM wasn't possible - in fact he told me to toughen up and go for full ironman!! When my stitches were removed by the registrar, he told me I should never run again...which kinda makes triathlon difficult!! So I'm not sure what the long term view is. Obviously the surgeon is more experienced, but he may have changed his view after the op. I think I just need to wait and see what he says in 3 weeks time. If long distance running isn't an option, I'll target things like Mini Anaconda as I also paddle (another 2-3 weeks before I can do that).

Yes, thanks to not being able to exercise, I'm overweight!! Damn that fine food!! I'm currently in diet mode :( so consider me hangry (angry due to hunger). That's a work on progress!!

Actually, from my perspective, post op when I'm spending lots of time watching movies is not the time to sort out diet. It's the time to comfort eat and discover new chocolate bars ;(
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby trailgumby » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:56 pm

This is the guy who did mine. He is the go-to guy for rugby players in NSW. www.kneeclinic.com.au

The knee exercise sheet might be worth having a read of. http://kneeclinic.com.au/papers/patient_info.html
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby Duck! » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:15 am

Sounds like you're making good progress Mooster! :)

FWIW, I reckon the surgeons are always a bit pessimistic in their suggestions of what you should expect to be able to do in future. The guy who did my knee suggested I shouldn't expect to do as much again after I had it done. I was only 26 at the time, so I thought that was a rather severe outlook. Within a year I was riding more than I ever had beforehand, and haven't looked back since (10 years & counting).
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby winstonw » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:51 am

Human tissue degenerates, period. And a torn meniscus can never be 'fixed' to the point that it is better than what it was prior to a tear. EVER! And rarely is damaged isolated to one structure within a knee. I think the registrar has your long term interests in mind, such that you have reasonable knee function well into your 80s.

I referred myself for 3 MRIs for chronic issues with low back, hip and knee, a few weeks ago, never having one done before.
I knew I had issues with my back and knee, but was still surprised at the level of degeneration. i.e. my knee has a large horizontal medial mensicus tear (cartilage in reasonable condition), and my L51 disc is essentially stiff and flat being 1/5 of original height.

I immediately decided to stop any form of jogging, or long walks on hard surfaces, and up my core strength and flexibility.....and get my body fat % under 12% and keep it there.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby wombatK » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:02 pm

winstonw wrote:Human tissue degenerates, period.

So where are we at with stem cell research. Do you see any hope for regenerating injured ligaments, cartilages or tendons ?

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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby moosterbounce » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:33 pm

wombatK wrote:
winstonw wrote:Human tissue degenerates, period.

So where are we at with stem cell research. Do you see any hope for regenerating injured ligaments, cartilages or tendons ?

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Stem cell therapy is being used now. Liposuction is performed on the patients stomach (only 100ml I'm afraid ;) ) and is injected into the joints. There is also platelet-rich therapy which I believe concerns injecting higher red count blood back in. Platelet stuff is not expensive but used for ligaments I believe. Stem cell is more expensive and not common, but good results are being seen in cartllidge regeneration. Been done in horses for years.
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Re: Taking the knife to the knee

Postby Parker » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:36 pm

moosterbounce wrote:The physio advised me to swim, but not to kick at this stage. I can do a couple of laps with flippers, but considering I was swimming up to 3km (pull buoy) 4 weeks ago, he was probably trying to temper my enthusiasm!! I've swum twice since being given the go ahead and 1km with 5x1min deep water running is enough for now. I'll need to up the distance though as, if I can manage it, I am scheduled to do the mandurah HIM swim in early November!!

The future is a little grey currently. Prior to the surgery, the surgeon saw no reason why HIM wasn't possible - in fact he told me to toughen up and go for full ironman!! When my stitches were removed by the registrar, he told me I should never run again...which kinda makes triathlon difficult!! So I'm not sure what the long term view is. Obviously the surgeon is more experienced, but he may have changed his view after the op. I think I just need to wait and see what he says in 3 weeks time. If long distance running isn't an option, I'll target things like Mini Anaconda as I also paddle (another 2-3 weeks before I can do that).

Yes, thanks to not being able to exercise, I'm overweight!! Damn that fine food!! I'm currently in diet mode :( so consider me hangry (angry due to hunger). That's a work on progress!!

Actually, from my perspective, post op when I'm spending lots of time watching movies is not the time to sort out diet. It's the time to comfort eat and discover new chocolate bars ;(

You better be outta the water quickly, cause I promised Paul I'd kill him on the bike... speaking of... eight weeks to go!!!
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