BNA Losers Club 2014

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby phineas » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:16 pm

I'm in.

Currently hovering around the 130kg mark.
This is massive, as I'm quite short. And it's all fat and no muscle :o

This time last year I hit 140, got down to about 122 in the third quarter of the year, but crept back up to 130 this year.

I have a problem with eating way too much of very bad foods :(

All this weight is definitely hindering my progress on the bike (newbie but loving it) so I'm really keen to drop so me of this off.

Under 100kg would be great. It's been 10 years since I was under 100.


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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby fishwop » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:44 am

phineas wrote:I'm in.

Currently hovering around the 130kg mark.
This is massive, as I'm quite short.
All this weight is definitely hindering my progress on the bike (newbie but loving it) so I'm really keen to drop so me of this off.



Think of it as a 50kg (or maybe even more) weight penalty. The greatest racehorse in Australian history could not win the Melbourne Cup with an additional 5kg.

I'm in the same boat. BMI of 25 would put me at 86kg, but I'm 138kg.

One good thing about massive weight penalties is that you get much more exercise per km.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby TonyMax » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:49 am

I'll play.

79.9 by the end of the year (well by the middle of December anyway). And even if I reach it before then I want to stay in the 70s until year's end.

Currently somewhere around 83 after losing 12-15kg in the second half of last year.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby dynamictiger » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:42 pm

fishwop wrote:One good thing about massive weight penalties is that you get much more exercise per km.


Agree

But I wouldnt mind the weight penalty I carry if I ate a lot of rubbishy food and lots of it...When you have a highly restricted diet, eat less than your wife who weighs half what you do and still seem to weigh way more than you should and stack it on by looking at a sandwich it does get frustrating.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby Parker » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:07 pm

dynamictiger wrote:
fishwop wrote:One good thing about massive weight penalties is that you get much more exercise per km.


Agree

But I wouldnt mind the weight penalty I carry if I ate a lot of rubbishy food and lots of it...When you have a highly restricted diet, eat less than your wife who weighs half what you do and still seem to weigh way more than you should and stack it on by looking at a sandwich it does get frustrating.

What's highly restrictive about your diet?
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby dynamictiger » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:15 pm

amounts of food I eat is restricted.

no more than 30 grams of cereal for breakfast

225mm plate for dinner

Calorie controlled lunch and snacks

Drink water or milk

This is every day and still dont seem to loose weight ...Very frustrating still we will see. Determined this year to get this pesky weight down and staying more or less down.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby Parker » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:52 pm

Have you heard of Vinnie Tortorich? Maybe check out his web page? http://vinnietortorich.com/

I lost 14.55kg last year by simply following the principal of No Sugar and No Grains, and when I say no Sugar I mean no processed Sugar and minimal amounts of grains. I don't really eat a lot of fruit to begin with, I have a few things that I really like when in season but I've never really been a heavy consumer.

My breakfast is a green smoothie, did I love it to start with? No. Do I love it now? 50/50 but I do know that I feel so much better having it. So, what's in it? Kale, celery, apple, kiwi fruit, capsicum (whatever vege you want to put in it) - you put it in a blender with some water and an egg along with a table spoon of coconut oil and wizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

On a day like today where I've already had two big training days and about to do another I also ended up eating 4 muffins, BUT, here's the kicker, my muffins are gluten free and processed sugar free.

Chocolate Muffins here - http://www.thehealthychef.com/2012/09/n ... late-cake/ (I divide the mixture into little patty pans) - yes it's still got sugar in it but it's not that pure white and deadly stuff!

Banana Muffins here - http://againstallgrain.com/2012/03/28/b ... l-topping/ (leave the topping off and make them in good batches and put in freezer in a zip lock bag, you'll always have a snack on hand... after it defrosts, I normally take a maximum of two to work with me.

Lunch is chicken and veg pie with a sweet potato topping or a seafood risotto, really depends on whats in the freezer. The heavier rice stuff is for big training days and the chicken and vege is for the lighter days.

Dinner is meat and vege, and I'm talking lots of vege.

My experience with Calorie control isn't great, now I eat more vege and meat and more fat, I'm fuller for longer and I'm fuelled better. I know Vinnie may be a bit of a stretch but check it out and do some ready about what he's got to say and remember, "put life into living." If you want some ice cream, it's okay, just don't eat the whole tub and if you can't control it that way then go to the convenience store and buy 1 ice cream.

BTW - I'm in Applecross!
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby Parker » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:53 pm

dynamictiger wrote:
no more than 30 grams of cereal for breakfast



oh and this isn't enough food
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby Parker » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:31 pm

Other people to google and check out there ideas/research:

Dr Timothy Noakes (South African)
Against All Grain (blog site - recipes)
Vinnie Tortorich (lot's of information here and direction to other interesting people who have lot's to say about the diet industry)
Eat the Yolk ( http://cavegirleats.com/eat-the-yolks/ ) - it's not realeased yet, but I've already pre-ordered
Marks Daily Apple is interesting


I'm not saying these things are right by the way, I'm saying it's worth looking into.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby dynamictiger » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:38 pm

Parker wrote:
dynamictiger wrote:
no more than 30 grams of cereal for breakfast



oh and this isn't enough food


weigh out 30 grams of muesli
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby Parker » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:40 pm

dynamictiger wrote:
Parker wrote:
dynamictiger wrote:
no more than 30 grams of cereal for breakfast



oh and this isn't enough food


weigh out 30 grams of muesli

Most muesli is Hi-GI and got a suprisingly large amount of sugar in it and if you're having it with low fat yoghurt it's a great way to be hungry by 9am.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:46 pm

dynamictiger wrote:amounts of food I eat is restricted.

no more than 30 grams of cereal for breakfast

225mm plate for dinner

Calorie controlled lunch and snacks

Drink water or milk

This is every day and still dont seem to loose weight ...Very frustrating still we will see. Determined this year to get this pesky weight down and staying more or less down.

Who has set your calorie limit? The reason I asked is that a couple of years ago I went lo cal after being sucked in by the calories in vs calories out hype. The problem with this theory is if that consumption drops too low, your calorie expenditure drops too. You are chasing a true calorie defecit down the rabbit hole. I actually had to start eating more (of the right food of course) in order to lose weight.

The pushers of the calories in vs calories out theory fail to warn people that if they drop their energy intake too low their bodies will adapt to burn less energy. Calories in vs calories out would work if our bodies were a closed, non-adapting system. Unfortunately, our bodies are an adaptive system, lower the energy input and the body adapts by lowering energy output.

The trick is to eat just less than you need, to trigger weight loss but not reduce energy so much that energy expenditure drops too. That is fine line to walk.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/567126_print
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby Parker » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:49 pm

Can't read the article as you need to log in
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby dynamictiger » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:54 pm

This is the Medicare Local dietician advice. After all they are the experts. Who are we to question them?
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby Parker » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:15 pm

dynamictiger wrote:This is the Medicare Local dietician advice. After all they are the experts. Who are we to question them?


We should question everything, what makes the medicare local dietician an expert?

When European nation's and some of the world top cardiologists are turning around and saying that Hi Carb and Low Fat is the reason for the increase in disease (disease in general), then shouldn't we question the Medicare Local dietician?

Dr Timothy Noakes was told he was either close to diabetic or was diabetic (I dont recall) and he's a pretty fit guy, he was told to go high carb and low fat. Thats what he wrote about in The Lore of Running, he promoted high card and low fat. Now he's turned around and said he was wrong, after experimenting with high fat and low carb diets on himself. He's now re-writing the chapter I believe and is also starting to look further into the possibility that a certain amount of people on this earth may be intolerant to grains.

Article: High fat and low carb reverse Heart Disease - http://www.examiner.com/article/low-car ... d-diabetes
and perhaps check out a book called Grain Brain http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031623 ... erco040-20

Article: Sweden goes high fat since February http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 5948,d.dGI

If you look at the increase in heart disease and disease, it's simply started to grow around the time that high carb and low fat came into play. And if you look into the history of high carb and low fat you actually begin to find that there was no research done, there was however more money behind the guy who said, "High Carb and Low Fat" apart from the other guy who said, "Low Carb and High Fat."

What do we know about high carb?

- mainly highly processed foods
- foods that are considered fillers
- low nutrient food (seriously how many vitamins and minerals in a loaf of bread compared to two cups of veggies)
- there's money in processed foods

What do we know about low carb foods?

- highly nutritious
- natural
- primarily unprocessed

What do we know about the food industry?

- there's money involved
- the government is backing it
- people like Coke are betting and hoping you stay addicted
- there are jobs invovled
- imagine if we all stopped eating bread tomorrow

What have we seen recently in the supermarket change?

- availability of bulk foods
- increased amount of health foods
- labels such as organic, dariy free, gluten free

Anyone else apart from me know vegans and vegetarians who have beat cancer? I do. I know people who have given up sugar and beaten cancer, so to me, if giving up sugar and processed foods can help you beat cancer, then I'm gonna question every single doctor who says to me high carb and low fat are the way to go.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby dynamictiger » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:38 pm

Not wanting to railroad this thread, I do have to respond on why dont we question everything.

There are people who are 'experts' in their field of endeavour. Generally speaking unless you are to spend years and years studying you cant challenge these 'experts' knowledge. Of course there are exceptions. However generally the 'expert' is giving you the best advice they have available at the time.

What is very frustrating to an 'expert' is an amatuer armed with half information drawing conclusions based on incomplete information which may or may not be verified at a later date.

What I mean is this.

A while ago a documentary was aired on ABC in which the general theme was that the use of stantins to control cholesterol is a waste of time.

This documentary claimed the popularity of statins is due to political ability of the champion for the drug.

Does it matter? A whole lot of folks went to see their doctor and questioned the doctors extensively on whether the advice was right or wrong and whether to continue to take the drug as it wasnt doing them any good.

I am on a stantin.

My attitude having watched the same documentary as everyone else was...thats interesting. I am not sure where this information came from or how true or biased the claims may be...what I do know is my Doctor has my health in his mind when he prescribes me the pills he does. He prescribes based on the best information he has to hand, and sure I can ask questions to satisfy my curiousity, however I am not going to spend my evenings reading medical journals to keep up with the latest discoveries. If the stantins are indeed the bad thing this program is saying then that will be examined and reviewed by people far better qualified than me to judge that and if their research indeed turns up a different drug of more benefit I have faith my doctor will swap my drugs at this time. Until then I will follow his advice as it is his job to do the best he can for me...and if he gets it wrong...That may not be his fault either as he can only give the best advice he can based on the best information he can get.

The above is called trust. Unfortunately there is a move away from trust in todays world, and the internet empowers individuals to feelings of super knowledge. I wont start on this as I will go all day.

My point is this.

I am in a Medicare Local program by choice as my BMI is over 30 and I have the required health complications to fit the criteria. Medicare Local was set up to provide preventative medical intervention. I may not pay for this program directly, but do through taxes and so on. The organisation as a whole is there to research and provide me the latest medical advice and direction on loosing weight. I am following these guidelines to the letter. I started last year sort of...it is really hard moving from a 300mm dinner plate to a 225mm round so i took a few in between steps to get here.

I do appreciate the alternative point of view. I am not saying you are wrong for you. I was ona diet similar to what you are suggesting and did indeed loose weight, however it was not permanent and I am intending this to be more permanent.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby phineas » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:21 pm

dynamictiger wrote:This is every day and still dont seem to loose weight ...Very frustrating still we will see. Determined this year to get this pesky weight down and staying more or less down.


I know the frustrated feeling. Although I eat yummy food way often than I should, and too much of it, I am way more overweight than anyone else would be if they ate what I ate.

Have an underacitve thyroid and despite being on daily medication and I can't seem to shift much weigh no matter what I change with food or exercise.


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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby Parker » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:52 pm

I hope it works dynamictiger, each to their own and what your saying is huge to have such trust. Nice work.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby moosterbounce » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:52 pm

My 2c for what its worth. I've been playing around with my diet for a little while now without much weightloss conviction. As some background, I had surgery on both knees and my recovery - although going well - was estimated to take between 9 and 12 months to return to where I was. I'm almost at 6 months now. I had a wait for confirmed diagnosis, appointments etc so was unable to do much from June to September last year (unable to walk 100m without crutches in this time). I did a lot of couch sitting and continued that for a while post surgery - 5x1min on the trainer didn't really count as exercise!!

Anyway, in that time I gained 10kg. Not fabbo but I wasn't really in the mood to diet through that time.

So I've played. I hated the idea of a green smoothie but acknowledged my vege intake was random and certainly not great. I don't really like cooked veges and salad bores me. I also live alone so the desire to cook perfectly balanced meals all the time does wane. So I started adding 1/2 avo, cucumber, spinach, and bok choy to my apple/pear/kiwi smoothie and so far, I've not noticed any flavour other than the apple/kiwi mix but I feel heaps better. And that's what it is about for me. I feel better. there's about 300 calories in my breakfast, but I have 4 serves of fruit and 5 of veges.

My next challenge is that I'm not tending to be hungry at lunchtime but need something around 2pm, which mucks up dinner. I need to find a balance. Perhaps I need to have 1/2 my smoothie for breakfast and the other half for lunch? Time will tell.

Anyway I'm avoiding wheat specifically but reducing all grain consumption. Not being fanatical, just finding I don't need it and it doesn't work for me. I've eaten bread when my sister made me a specific herb bread and it was delicious, but I developed what I call "bread belly" afterwards that lasted a day and made me gain between 1 and 2 cm around my waist. I didn't enjoy the feeling so I avoid making me feel that way again thus avoiding wheat. I don't stick forks in my hand either as I don't like that feeling. To me, it was the same concept.

Coupled with this is avoiding processed sugar and stupid grain sugar ie high fructose corn syrup. Stopping these has meant no cake, biscuits, sugary drinks etc. I'm finding I don't need this food and am no longer craving it as I used to. I had been known to eat a whole packet of Gaiety biscuits in about 20 minutes.

I can only say what's working for me. I've lost 3kg since upping my vege intake in smoothies and I'm not struggling or hungry. I'm exercising to the level my rehab allows and all but my knees could do more on what I'm eating which is good. My body is working better internally and I feel great in myself.

Personally, there are so many eating methods out there that suit different people that I don't like experts saying that their method is the right one. It might be right for some people but not others. It's only through investigating and trying other methods that we find what suits us as individuals.

Another example - I have 2 dogs. My vet says science diet is the best food - the cunic in me says he's a vet not a nutritionist but the sales rep comes to him and leaves food there. So he recommends it. Others tell me a raw diet is best for my dogs as that's what they would eat in the wild and is what their digestive system is designed for. Others say premium dry foods are best. Science diet is full of fillers and has meat byproducts as about ingredient number 5. No thanks. If I fed one of my dogs raw food, he would have died years ago. You see, none of these experts takes into consideration the fact that Sir Dogalot ate everything he could when younger - socks, chairs, washing machines etc - and now has a delicate stomach so if I vary his food at all from the premium dry food he has been on for life, I'll be cleaning up dog vomit after every meal. He would fade away.

So if i dont let experts tell me what my dogs should eat, why would I let other experts tell me what is best for me when they don't know my background or what I do or even what I like? I take info in from a number of sources, try what sounds ok to me and my lifestyle, then decide what works best from there. At the moment, I know what's working. This may change if I added 200km extra riding to my week, but I'll review it when I no longer feel fantabulous.

I managed to follow a calorie restricted diet about 7 years ago and lost 25 kilos doing so, but it was boring, made my grumpy, and wasn't sustainable for me. For me, it took life out of living and I didn't enjoy that, but it was a means to an end. Now I am looking for sustainable lifestyle changes that I can adopt which make me feel fabbo and if I lose weight because of them - which I am - then that's great too.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby Parker » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:49 am

Different choices for different people, some people can have grains and be fine, others like me get all bloaty and farty :(
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:29 am

dynamictiger wrote:I am in a Medicare Local program by choice as my BMI is over 30 and I have the required health complications to fit the criteria. Medicare Local was set up to provide preventative medical intervention. I may not pay for this program directly, but do through taxes and so on. The organisation as a whole is there to research and provide me the latest medical advice and direction on loosing weight. I am following these guidelines to the letter. I started last year sort of...it is really hard moving from a 300mm dinner plate to a 225mm round so i took a few in between steps to get here.

I do appreciate the alternative point of view. I am not saying you are wrong for you. I was ona diet similar to what you are suggesting and did indeed loose weight, however it was not permanent and I am intending this to be more permanent.

It's fantastic you are doing something to address your health and your attitude that it needs to be permanent is the right attitude too. It's good you are getting expert help. My only concern is that if your calories drop too low it will make it difficult to lose weight. See how it goes, but if after some time of following the program you are not getting results, then let the people running the program know that it doesn't seem to be working. They may have to adjust what you are eating. Here is a link to the article, hopefully it works this time.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/567126_2

p.s. I'm not saying you are wrong or not to follow the program, just saying that you can't keep your calories too low and expect to lose weight. It's just the definition of "too low" that is the problem!
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby dynamictiger » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:42 am

Previously I was ona high protein low carb diet. Yes I did lose weight...However the cost to feed me the amount I needed was more than our normal combined shopping bill...Now before you all tell me I am wrong consider this. I was being supervised on this program by a nutritionist specialising in this type of diet. They calculate the required amount of food based on your lean muscle mass etc etc etc...too much information to put here. Based on this my breakfast only would be something like:

1 complete grapefruit (I like these my choice)
6 rashes short cut bacon
3 eggs
2 tomatoes
1 mandarin/apple
20 almonds

So yes I know restrictive calorie intake is not the total solution, however it sure is a lot cheaper than feeding me for a week on a high protein diet.

Oh, and by the way, this is why to me 30 grams of muesli doesnt seem like enough food for a mouse.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby Parker » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:21 pm

Yeah, our food bill is around $500.00 a fortnight for two people, we're slowly getting it lower by cooking more bulk meals (lunches specifically) and we've had to put rice back into our diets because we haven't been able to maintain the amount of training for ironman, its just honestly, too hard to eat all that food and prepare it. It's okay if you're jsut commuting to and from work, but when you're getting up to 10 hours a week of hard training its getting heaps tougher.

For example we consume 4-5 cartons of eggs a fortnight, then things like coconut oil and coconut flours and almond meal isn't cheap. I've heard people say it's cheap to eat healthy. To be honest, to eat healthy without a heaps of grains, it's rather expensive.

We look at ways to best store our veggies to get the most out of them so that we don't throw things out, also remembering to use things that we have in the fridge is a considerable cost saver.

We don't eat out a lot anymore, we cook most of our own meals, we do have meat at every meal and I am thinking of throwing in a vegan night at some point down the track, maybe after this training block finishes.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:57 pm

I always aim to be within a kg of the "normal" weight that I sustain long term with a little effort. That'd be around79kg.

Howevever, as I am now managing a sustainable weight training and exercise regime for the first time in many years (ie shoulders not detaching etc) so I have to accept of an extra kg or so. Therefore holding 80 is my general target for the the foreseeable future. It's proving to be a bit of a challenge but being a little hard on myself is better than finding excuses.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:47 pm

dynamictiger wrote:Now before you all tell me I am wrong consider this.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I feel the point of this thread is not to "tell people they are wrong".

dynamictiger wrote:So yes I know restrictive calorie intake is not the total solution, however it sure is a lot cheaper than feeding me for a week on a high protein diet.

Reducing calorie intake is a total solution. But, it is VERY complex.
Too many calories = weight gain.
Adequate calories = weight maintentance.
Moderate defecit = weight loss (fat+muscle)
Large defecit = weight loss stalls (as metabolism compenstates) <<<- I have been here

If you can find "moderate" and stick to it, you should be fine. Just be aware that as you reduce your weight, "moderate" will reduce too. My main evening meal is about half the size I used to eat when I was "maxed" out! :mrgreen:
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