BNA Losers Club 2014

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014 - 1st month update

Postby tcdev » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:03 pm

To recap, my goal is to get from 114.5kg on 1st July to <100kg NYE, after 6 months of apathetic diet and absolutely zero exercise (due in part to a disc bulge). All this after 2 years of a steady decline in health (increase in weight) after the birth of our first child.

To this end I've endeavored to opt out of the office 4pm junk-food run and the week-night beer, better my diet in general, pick up my weights again and start riding a bike. I didn't receive my bike until the 16th July, my first serious ride (of only 4 thus far) being on the 21st. I've also had to dial my weights way back in order not to aggravate my back injury; they're barely raising a sweat at this point and probably won't significantly factor in my fitness for a further 2 months or so.

So, after 1 month exactly I weighed-in this morning at 112.8kg.

I do weigh myself daily before my morning shower, however I take the daily fluctuations with a grain of salt. The daily weigh-in is more of a reminder that I'm on this journey and a bit of 'fun' to track in my exercise diary in Google docs. A few days' results have confounded me at times, but it's very early days yet and I'm expecting the next month to produce better results.

That said, I'm reasonably happy with the results, considering I've only had the bike for 2 weeks. I've always been one to trust the mirror over the scales, and I've also never counted calories. In reality I actually don't eat particularly badly at all when I cut out the junk (my wife is a very healthy eater) - it's the portion size that gets me. The solution there is to let my wife dish out the food, and then not go back for seconds. :wink:

As for riding, enjoying it immensely; riding along Botany Bay towards either Kyeemah or Cronulla in the winter sun, roughly 26kms each ride on a 29" MTB (MTB tires). Aside from a sore bum my legs feel rather fatigued and I'm not looking forward to squats tomorrow morning!

Next goal - 110kg. Would be nice to see it by the end of next month!
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by BNA » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:15 pm

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby CKinnard » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:15 pm

good on you tcdev. what stands out about what you said is you've never counted Calories, but then it's the portion sizes that foil you.
what worked for me was counting the Calories for a few weeks until I had an idea of how big my portions should be.
they kind of go hand in hand.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby CKinnard » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:35 am

7 weeks into my diet, and 7.4kg off.
I fell behind for almost 2 weeks after doing a long hard hilly ride and staying up watching TdF.
I've been able to gradually chip away by tightening up on intake, and going to bed earlier.

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What's working nicely for me over the last week is

am :
400 Cal green smoothie - 250-300g bananas, 4 dates, spinach or kale, 10g chia and flax seeds
50-100 Cal - several cups of white tea with soy milk and piece of fruit

pm:
200-250Cal wrap or pocket bread with 3-4 cups salad
150 Cal - 2 pieces of fruit

evening:
220 Cals - soup, little to no starch, 1 litre water, 4 cups vege, 80-100g meat or 1/2 cup of legumes.
The warm water in the soup and the sheer volume takes longer to consume and seems to fill me up nicely.
100 Cals of fruit for dessert.

This makes up 1300-1500 Cals for the day.
If I ride for 1 hour, that takes my energy expenditure for the day to around 2500 Cals, thereby creating a deficit for 1kg/wk weight loss.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby tcdev » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:47 pm

CKinnard wrote:good on you tcdev. what stands out about what you said is you've never counted Calories, but then it's the portion sizes that foil you.
what worked for me was counting the Calories for a few weeks until I had an idea of how big my portions should be.
they kind of go hand in hand.

Yes, it's something I will definitely consider if I don't see the progress I'm expecting over the next few months.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby tcdev » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:52 pm

CKinnard wrote:I fell behind for almost 2 weeks after doing a long hard hilly ride and staying up watching TdF.
I've been able to gradually chip away by tightening up on intake, and going to bed earlier.

So how did the long hard hilly ride factor into it? Did that (simply) cause you to increase your intake? Or another reason?
And the late nights? Do they in themselves impede weight loss? Or is there some other knock-on effect?

I ask out of ignorance and curiosity. I'm guilty of the not-too-infrequent late night myself. :cry:
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:58 pm

tcdev wrote:And the late nights? Do they in themselves impede weight loss? Or is there some other knock-on effect?
I ask out of ignorance and curiosity. I'm guilty of the not-too-infrequent late night myself. :cry:

Late nights certainly affect me. I'm a shocker for staying up late. The docs reckon
your metabolism is slower when you are sleep-deprived

Apparently you feel more hungry and tend to eat more too. Eating more + slower metabolism is not a good combo if you are trying to lose weight.

http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/ex ... eight-gain
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:59 pm

Speaking of which, I'm on long service leave, staying up late, eating way too much sugar and processed foods...

94 kg again for me.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby barefoot » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:48 pm

I haven't checked in to this thread yet this year, but I fear it's about time to nail something on the church door.

Last year, I started around 87kg, hoping to get down to 80 by the end of the year. Made it to 82, with a few bumps along the way.

I'm back up to about 86kg now.

Last year, I had the easiest weight loss ever by doing something vaguely resemblant of the 16+8 intermittent fasting thing. An overcomplicated way of saying I stopped eating breakfast... although in doing so, I made it much easier for myself to stop eating morning snacks, because I find I don't start feeling hungry until I've started eating for the day. All the day's eating happens between noon and 8pm; only drinking non-nutritive drinks (give or take a bit of milk in my tea and coffee) for the remaining 16 hours of the day. I find that ridiculously easy to stick to.

What I'm not doing so well, though, is maintaining a sensible diet during my 8 hour eating window. Quality is declining. Portion sizes are getting bigger. Snacks are becoming frequent, routine, and unhealthy.

So... here's my check-in and goal. 79.9kg by the end of the year. No more afternoon chocolate box raids... drink more fluids instead. No more giant choc chip cookie for lunch dessert. No more buttery bread after dinner because I'm still a bit hungry.

I feel like I'm skipping more early morning rides this year than I did last winter, but my Strava stats say otherwise. Maybe I have an overinflated sense of my own heroism in the freezing pre-dawn darkness in what was my first year of regular bunch riding last year :lol: . I think I'm getting enough exercise to help burn off a reasonable calorific intake... I just need to get back to a reasonable calorific intake :-(

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby tcdev » Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:15 pm

Wow, I never thought skipping breakfast would ever be recommended as being good for one's health... but I must admit years ago I was a terrible breakfast-skipper, more out of laziness (staying up late, waking late and having to get to work) and I found that I was never hungry until lunchtime either. Did that for years until shacking up with my now-wife, and these days I get hunger pains when I wake later than my normal breakfast time. I could never make it to lunchtime without breakfast now.

One of my colleagues, a vegetarian, eats 'normally' for 5 days/week and then very little, if anything, on the other two. The theory there is that early humans didn't have a regular supply of food, and would often go for a few days without it. The body therefore feeds off its reserves on those few days until the next meal. He doesn't generally believe in the 3-meals-a-day ideal either, for similar reasons.

A few years ago I tried the eat-every-3-hours-whilst-awake thing. Smaller portions more often. The theory was that the body gets used to the regular meals and therefore is less inclined to store any energy. I found it difficult at first, because I wasn't reducing the 'main meal' portions enough and had to force myself to eat. Only did it for a few months, coupled with weight training. Not sure it made a lot of difference - I think my progress was more attributed to a more concerted effort at weight training - but it certainly did no harm once I had adjusted the portions. I just found it required too much preparation and planning, and there always seemed to be a reason I had to delay a meal for an hour or more. I suppose I wouldn't rule out attempting it again though...

Of course there's as many theories and diets as there are gambling systems and get-rich-quick schemes. No doubt there's a small amount of sound theory in all of them; more than one way to skin a cat. Like anything else you need to experiment and then choose what works for you. My approach over the years has generally been to avoid the extremes of any diet regime; eat 'sensibly' and increase the exercise until it compensates. Not so much of a problem until my daughter was born - then the wheels fell off that one. So with limited time I need to start focusing more on the diet, which for me means just being sensible - not extreme.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby CKinnard » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:10 pm

tcdev wrote:
CKinnard wrote:I fell behind for almost 2 weeks after doing a long hard hilly ride and staying up watching TdF.
I've been able to gradually chip away by tightening up on intake, and going to bed earlier.

So how did the long hard hilly ride factor into it? Did that (simply) cause you to increase your intake? Or another reason?
And the late nights? Do they in themselves impede weight loss? Or is there some other knock-on effect?

I ask out of ignorance and curiosity. I'm guilty of the not-too-infrequent late night myself. :cry:



My take on it is I carb up the day before a big ride, then eat adequately on the day, but also am left feeling a little fatigued and flat for a few days afterwards, which makes me feel hungry. No doubt there's more tissue damage after a bigger ride, that has to be repaired over the next few days. This could certainly push our appetite up.

For me late nights see me eating more. I figure dinner gets my blood sugar through to around 9pm ok, and if I stay up past that, I start to feel hungry, and snacking. Most authorities advise getting early nights to help combat cravings and overeating. Your endocrine system certainly benefits.

Good luck with your ongoing weight loss. If it's important to you, you won't need luck.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby tcdev » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:33 pm

CKinnard wrote:My take on it is I carb up the day before a big ride, then eat adequately on the day, but also am left feeling a little fatigued and flat for a few days afterwards, which makes me feel hungry.

For me right now fatigue is the biggest issue. I'm absolutely wiped out after my ride (26km, MTB & tires) and today is a good example. I'm hoping this will abate after another couple of weeks. I'm trying to get out 3/week but right now I'm not sure if I'm up to it (only managed 2/week so far)! :shock:

CKinnard wrote:For me late nights see me eating more. I figure dinner gets my blood sugar through to around 9pm ok, and if I stay up past that, I start to feel hungry, and snacking. Most authorities advise getting early nights to help combat cravings and overeating. Your endocrine system certainly benefits.

We don't eat until 8pm at the earliest, 9 pm is not uncommon. So the late night snack isn't so much of a temptation for me. I do succumb to the odd late-night computing session though (1am or later), though I must admit that since I've started riding it's been less frequent due to my fatigue (and possibly also due to the fact that my daughter is 'awake' - waking us - about an hour earlier these days since we took the side off her cot)! I think tonight will be an early one! :wink:

My first ride out to the beach (Wanda/Eloura) this morning! What a beautiful day and good to get a glimpse of how the other half (non-working) live! I really should set out earlier so I can sit on the bank for 20 mins or so and soak it all up, not just turn around and head back. :cry:
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby barefoot » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:12 pm

tcdev wrote:Wow, I never thought skipping breakfast would ever be recommended as being good for one's health...
...
One of my colleagues, a vegetarian, eats 'normally' for 5 days/week and then very little, if anything, on the other two.


Both are common variants of Intermittent Fasting. http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2013/08 ... t-fasting/

Yeah, it's a fad diet buzzword thing. But it's easy. I found mention of it when desperately searching for ideas of how I could stop myself getting uncontrollably hungry in the late morning. I thought I was looking for ideas of high-protein breakfasts that would sit in my guts and make me feel bloated until lunchtime (not that this is a bad thing :oops: ), but instead found people reckoning that skipping breakfast stopped them getting hungry. Along with a bunch more quasi-religious pseudoscience (some of which may have some foundation, but it's best to assume not) about livers and insulin and growth hormones and blah blah living forever and getting terrrrtally ripped at the gym bro.

So, I brought a box of weetbix to work instead of eating it first thing, expecting that I'd be eating it (and the box) by 9am. Surprisingly, I didn't eat it for about a month.

Anyway, regardless the other alleged benefits of fasting for 16 hours a day, it means I don't get tempted by the chocolate machine in the morning because I'm just not hungry, and it means that if I were to count calories, I wouldn't have to include whatever ridiculous number is represented by 5 weetbix every morning (which means I can eat that same number in food that actually tastes good, during my non-fasting period... or not at all if I want to lose weight).

Or, as has become the reality, I can eat astonishing amounts of really dumb food for lunch, all afternoon, and for dinner.

Shouldn't be too hard to get back on track. Easier than if I was eating lots of breakfast, snacking all morning, big dumb lunch, all afternoon, and a big dinner.

As an upside, I still might live forever because ghrelin and growth hormones and insulin resistance or whatever that Leangains guy talks about. Unfortunately, I haven't become ripped.

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby tcdev » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:24 pm

barefoot wrote:As an upside, I still might live forever because ghrelin and growth hormones and insulin resistance or whatever...

Vegetarians don't live longer... it just seems that way! :wink:
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby CKinnard » Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:11 pm

The nutritional science recommendation not to skip breaky is that it more often than not results in over-eating later in the day/evening.
I suppose age impacts this somewhat.

I usually have porridge and berries for breaky, but after struggling to cut my Calorie intake for too long, I decided to do a 300-400 Caloire green smoothie for breaky, along with riding more regularly in the morning rather than the afternoon. After a week or so of doing this, I found I wasn't getting hungry later in the mornings.

I then started doing 4 cups of salad in a wrap or 1/2 pita pocket for lunch. This stopped me from getting really hungry mid afternoon.

Some say doing more raw plant food can change the ratio of various intestinal flora, which can effect appetite, which might explain the quelling of my cravings.

Anyway, I'm comfortably losing a kg a week, and riding stronger than I have all year.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby Aussiebullet » Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:45 am

Finally broke the 63kg barrier after some heavy racing and training slowed the weight loss down for a while, power is still moving in the right direction even peak and 5's power is on the rise again, helped by some intense L6,7 sessions of course.
Hoping to go sub 60kg in time for nationals, either way the next block of racing and training is about to kick off with the Rob Vernon Memorial Handicap this week, can't wait!
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby CKinnard » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:52 am

Nice one Aussiebullet. Have you considered getting a DXA scan, around $100-150, to clarify bodyfat %.
They can guide on how much more weight to lose when you are close to your goal.

Although, arguably a more functional way is, as you get within 3-5kg of your nominated goal weight, reduce your Calorie deficit to 300-500 Cals a day, and stop dieting when your 5s power decreases.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby barefoot » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:18 am

CKinnard wrote:The nutritional science recommendation not to skip breaky is that it more often than not results in over-eating later in the day/evening.


Yep.

How often do you hear "I don't eat breakfast... but I have a giant blueberry muffin with my triple-sugar caramel frappaccino for morning tea, and that sees me through until lunch". :lol:

That's not skipping breakfast. That's just eating a really bad breakfast, a bit later than standard.

I felt really flat after my early road ride this morning, so I scoffed a handful of dates for "breakfast". Oh well. There goes the diet. Better have a muffin for morning tea.

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:53 pm

barefoot wrote:
CKinnard wrote:The nutritional science recommendation not to skip breaky is that it more often than not results in over-eating later in the day/evening.

Yep.
How often do you hear "I don't eat breakfast... but I have a giant blueberry muffin with my triple-sugar caramel frappaccino for morning tea, and that sees me through until lunch". :lol:

How I go at skipping breakfast depends on how much I exercise. When I wasn't riding much, 'breakfast' was on standard coffee, no sugar. I had no problems with hunger before lunch. Now I'm riding and running, I'm starving in the morning, even feeling hungry riding in to work. So much for exercise supressing appetite. I was eating overnight oats every morning, which is a great breakfast but didn't agree with my digestive system. I might need more time to adapt to raw oats. After I ran out of oats I ate coconut milk and greek yoghurt mixed together. Yum! But I have run out of both, so currently just have a green tea, no sugar. I want to eat breakfast but to me, a giant blueberry muffin with my triple-sugar caramel frappaccino is not a good breakfast :wink:

I won't eat breakfast unless I have something decent to eat.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby CKinnard » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:18 pm

More on brekky. I am amazed I am coping with a green smoothie. 300-400 Cals. 1 liter water, 2 bananas, 4 dates, 8-10g ground seeds, about 1 cup greens. Maybe there's something in what DurianRider says! :)

After I had one this morning, and a cup of white tea with 30ml soy milk, I did a 40km ride with several 1-2 min intervals at 40-45kph. Had half a pear when I got back, 500ml water, and another tea....and that carried me through to a 300 Cal lunch no worries.

I tell you, this is a miraculous difference to the struggles I've had with sugar, salt, alcohol cravings over the last year.

I'm beavering away now at work, with no desire to eat anything...but will have another half pear before going for another ride (45min averaging 250watts), followed by a banana...then 300 Cal dinner (1/2cup legumes, 1/2cup rice, 3 cups vege)
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:43 pm

CKinnard wrote:More on brekky. I am amazed I am coping with a green smoothie. 300-400 Cals. 1 liter water, 2 bananas, 4 dates, 8-10g ground seeds, about 1 cup greens. Maybe there's something in what DurianRider says! :)

I didn't measure exactly but my overnight oats were around 300 calories and that kept me going really well until lunch time. I would say that any resemblence between what DR says and reality is purely coincidental :wink: I reckon its great that you are eating greens. DR hates green.

CKinnard wrote:I tell you, this is a miraculous difference to the struggles I've had with sugar, salt, alcohol cravings over the last year.

I'm beavering away now at work, with no desire to eat anything...but will have another half pear before going for another ride (45min averaging 250watts), followed by a banana...then 300 Cal dinner (1/2cup legumes, 1/2cup rice, 3 cups vege)

That great! I don't have sugar cravings anymore either. I used to have very sharp and very painful sugar cravings 5 or 6 times every day. It is very liberating to not have cravings!
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby CKinnard » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:42 pm

Yeah, I agree it's liberating to conquer or vanquish cravings. Just got home from a workshop. Had 2 small pieces of a seed and nut slice about 200 Cals all up I estimate (in addition to mentioned meals). That takes my Cal intake for the day to 1200, and total ride to 83km over 3hrs. That's about a 2000 Calorie deficit. Just amazing how unhungry I feel.

You are probably right about DR. I don't buy into his main theme that you can pig out on carbs, and not put on weight. I am losing weight as predicted by nutritional science having 1200-1500 Calories a day. Highly unlikely I could eat 5x as many bananas and get the same result. I didn't realize he didn't like green.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby TonyMax » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:36 am

barefoot wrote:What I'm not doing so well, though, is maintaining a sensible diet during my 8 hour eating window. Quality is declining. Portion sizes are getting bigger. Snacks are becoming frequent, routine, and unhealthy.

So... here's my check-in and goal. 79.9kg by the end of the year.

You and me both on both the unhealthy eating and target weight.

I haven't been on the scales for a couple of weeks but I fear I am well up over 90kg. I started last year at 95.9 in June and got to 80.9 the week before Christmas, but then a combination of a hernia operation, a lack of motivation for riding and a lack of ability to get up early has seen me balloon over winter again :(.

If only I could get up at 5am like I was this time last year, the walks in the morning were just as good for me as the lunch time cycling.

I am determined not to feel so fat, and also similarly determined to get to my 6000km for the year (currently lagging way behind).

Motivation is the killer, and the ease of just wandering across the road and buying a chocolate croissant or block of white chocolate or similar.

Today I will go for a lunch time ride again. On payday I will register for the 105km Fitz. Come September I hope to recommence commuting to work (76km round trip) twice a week.

Did I mention motivation is the killer?

:(
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby CKinnard » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:17 pm

There's no doubt to my mind now, that increasing k's ridden and doing more intense intervals, over-stimulates my appetite, and compromises weight loss. The last week I clocked up 350k with many high intensity intervals. I usually do 150-200k.

Image

Though I presume everyone has a different threshold for when intensity/duration over-stimulates appetite.

It's sort of understandable due to longer and more intense riding burning more glucose/glycogen, which needs to be topped up frequently.
Long periods of lower intensity activities are more likely to not overstimulate appetite, esp for carbs and sugars.
I suppose the other variables here are whether I am staying hydrated and getting adequate rest to compensate the increased damage of increased work load.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby casual_cyclist » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:16 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:94 kg again for me.

And again. 94 kg.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2014

Postby johnny99 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:45 pm

Ok time to join to give me some extra motivation. Over the past few years I have been around 95 to 98. Im 178cms. In the past 2 months ive been riding again but the weight has been staying constant. In the past 3 weeks I have not had a coke or fast food and have been a lot better with food choices. I have also been doing some running and going to the gym. Given I have a gym at work and get given time to go I have no excuse. So 3 weeks ago I was 97 and this morning i weighed in at 95.
My goal at this time is to get to 90kgs by christmas and then reassess.
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