"Addicted" to desserts

I'm not a doctor but… 
Cycling injury, recovery and health issues.
Forum rules
The information / discussion in the Cycling Health Forum is not qualified medical advice. Please consult your doctor.

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby matagi » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:03 pm

zill wrote:What do people think about my breakfast idea of pure indulgence for the day?

I think you should work on developing some discipline so you can eliminate desserts altogether except for special occasions.
User avatar
matagi
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:52 am
Location: In a parallel universe

by BNA » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:00 pm

BNA
 

Re:

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:00 pm

Redbull wrote:Lol, you start the day with bacon and eggs and finish it with desert. If I did that I would be twice he size I am now - which is to big already!!
Actually that's exactly what I do and its not making me fat. Suppose its a case of what works for you
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby Nobody » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:22 pm

matagi wrote:
zill wrote:What do people think about my breakfast idea of pure indulgence for the day?

I think you should work on developing some discipline so you can eliminate desserts altogether except for special occasions.
Fixed that for ya. It's hard to be a part time addict.
Nobody
 
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby zill » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:33 pm

Nobody wrote:
matagi wrote:
zill wrote:What do people think about my breakfast idea of pure indulgence for the day?

I think you should work on developing some discipline so you can eliminate desserts altogether except for special occasions.
Fixed that for ya. It's hard to be a part time addict.


Yes that is what I am going for now. I'm trying a strict high fat low carb diet now. Although i'm going for more like medium fat and low carb diet.

Another reason why I want to eliminate desserts is to protect my teeth! Actually that is strong enough motivation alone to eliminate desserts and sweet drinks. I do visit my dentist twice a year but sweets seem to wreck your teeth away gradually.
zill
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:34 pm

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby Nobody » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:36 am

zill wrote:I'm trying a strict high fat low carb diet now. Although i'm going for more like medium fat and low carb diet.
It most likely won't keep the weight off long-term and is going to contribute to various chronic illnesses.
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/h ... -1.1597066
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVxA6yipv4

A healthier diet to keep the weight off long-term is a low fat vegan diet. I recommend you read The Starch Solution as a reasonable starting point.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/

For further information, I've found NutritionFacts concise and informative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-8ovk81nNM
Nobody
 
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby casual_cyclist » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:41 pm

Nobody wrote:
zill wrote:I'm trying a strict high fat low carb diet now. Although i'm going for more like medium fat and low carb diet.
It most likely won't keep the weight off long-term and is going to contribute to various chronic illnesses.
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/h ... -1.1597066

That Twin doctors’ diet "experiment" was completely bogus. The guy who ate fat ate no vegetables. I have seen well designed high fat low carb eating plans that included heaps of veggies and healthy fats and excluded "bad" fats and processed meats. I agree with the show that eating the way he did would make you sick. His diet was nutritionally unbalanced and IMO, very unhealthy.

Nobody wrote:A healthier diet to keep the weight off long-term is a low fat vegan diet.

From the article you linked to:
But Chris’ low-fat diet could also have negative health consequences, so neither is good for you in the long run.

Like the high fat diet was a bad example of a high fat diet, the low fat diet was a bad example of a low fat diet.

I think one of the issues is that when people think of low carb high fat, they think of this:
Image
whereas a well designed low carb high fat meal should look like this:
Image
There is a good description of low carb high fat here, which includes:
Vegetables: Spinach, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots and many others.
Fruits: Apples, oranges, pears, blueberries, strawberries.
Nuts and Seeds: Almonds, walnuts, sunflower seeds, etc.

http://authoritynutrition.com/low-carb- ... -and-menu/
Note that processed meats are off the menu.

A huge trap for low carbers is the persistant message that you can eat as much as you want and lose weight. An exampe here:
Do you want to eat real food (as much as you like) and improve your health and weight? It may sound too good to be true, but LCHF (Low Carb, High Fat) is a method that has been used for 150 years.

http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf
That only works if you stop eating when you feel full. If you overeat, you still get fat.

I think that article is also wrong on fruit in the "Avoid if you can" section:
Fruit: Very sweet, lots of sugar. Eat once in a while. Treat fruit as a natural form of candy.

I don't agree with this at all, although if a person is trying to eat low carb high fat they shouldn't eat unlimited fruit.

At the end of the day it is still about creating an energy deficit. One reason people don't lose weight on a low carb high fat diet is:
Eating Too Many Calories
At the end of the day, calories do matter.
One of the main reasons low-carb diets are so effective is that they reduce appetite and make people eat less overall calories without trying.

http://authoritynutrition.com/15-reason ... carb-diet/
From the same article:
A low-carb diet is about more than just lowering your intake of carbs.

You have to replace those carbohydrates with real, nutritious foods.


There has been a lot of research into low carb diets and they can be effective:
http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studie ... fat-diets/

I think it would be really easy to eat a lazy low carb high fat diet that is nutritionally inadequate and extremely unhealthy. I think it would be a lot more work to eat a good low carb high fat diet with lots of veggies, some fruit and no processed meats. I don't think people should just follow any diet fat to lose weight if it means sacrificing good nutrition. You still need to make sure what you are eating is nutritionally balanced and nutritionally adequate.
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7329
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby Nobody » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:23 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:Like the high fat diet was a bad example of a high fat diet, the low fat diet was a bad example of a low fat diet.
This is the point. I wasn't holding it up as a strict piece of science. But even as a piece of infotainment science, it does give a pointer.

casual_cyclist wrote:...whereas a well designed low carb high fat meal should look like this:
Image

http://authoritynutrition.com/low-carb- ... -and-menu/
Note that processed meats are off the menu.
I don't believe any high fat, low carb diet will work for the average person over the long term - as in more than 2 years - going by the pictures of the authors of the Atkins/low-carb books. Also since reading The Starch Solution and The China Study (plus other various articles) I'm of the firm belief that meat, fish, eggs and dairy are not safe products to eat. Therefore it doesn't matter if these diets did work over the long term, they aren't healthy over a lifetime.

casual_cyclist wrote:There has been a lot of research into low carb diets and they can be effective:
http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studie ... fat-diets/
I can't see a low-carb diet being effective for cyclists interested in performance. I think you can be pretty confident that no pro teams would be using them. Also if you are replacing carbs with animal products, you are very likely to run into some or many health issues in a lifetime that can be traced to diet. Atkins - the father of the modern low-carb diet AFAIK - wasn't very healthy before he died from the results of a head injury after a fall.

In the end, I was trying to help a person who would likely be doing long term harm. I'm not really interested in arguing about it. Do what you please. There are lifelong consequences to many things we do in life, so it's worth trying to find the truth about what is truly a healthy diet. The diet war isn't making it easy for any of us to find this out.
Nobody
 
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby WarbyD » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:52 pm

Nobody wrote:I don't believe any high fat, low carb diet will work for the average person over the long term - as in more than 2 years - going by the pictures of the authors of the Atkins/low-carb books.


What about the author of the Carb-Nite Solution? That diet is low carb, high fat and I think you'd have to draw a pretty long bow to claim that John Keifer looks unhealthy... If I look at Durian Rider (about the only vegan proponent I can think of off the top of my head, although I'm sure he isn't the best example of course), and then look at John Kiefer, I know which I'd prefer to look like ;)

FWIW, I started down the Carb Nite / Carb Back Loading route when I was still very much into lifting weights and found it terrific - I was dropping bodyfat and I "felt" terrific in general. The only thing I didn't like was that my strength seemed to take a significant hit as I really struggled to get in enough calories without carbs, found myself having lots of extra protein shakes to top it up and if I didn't track my calories to make sure that I got enough I'd find I often ended up having half (or less) of the calories that I needed. Travelling as much in Asia/offshore as I was for work at the time also made it difficult for me to maintain.

When I actually manage to slap myself back into a bit of self-discipline and stick to it again, I'm definitely going back down the low carb route. Vegan may be great for some, but I like chicken. I like steak. I like lamb. I like eggs. I don't like (most) vegetables (although I do eat them in abundance). I would much rather be eating a majority of food that I enjoy than a majority of stuff that I don't..
WarbyD
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:13 pm

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby casual_cyclist » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:29 pm

Nobody wrote:I don't believe any high fat, low carb diet will work for the average person over the long term - as in more than 2 years - going by the pictures of the authors of the Atkins/low-carb books.

Personally I don't think Atkins is a very good example of healthly low carb high fat. It seems faddish and nutritionally unbalanced to me. I don't know anyone who stuck to it long term.

Nobody wrote:Also since reading The Starch Solution and The China Study (plus other various articles) I'm of the firm belief that meat, fish, eggs and dairy are not safe products to eat.

Personally I woudn't put to much faith in the China Study. It appears the analysis of the data wasn't as rigourous as required.
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-ch ... or-fallac/

Nobody wrote:Therefore it doesn't matter if these diets did work over the long term, they aren't healthy over a lifetime.

There is a large body of evidence that the Mediterranean diet is beneficial even though it includes meat, fish, eggs and dairy.

Nobody wrote:In the end, I was trying to help a person who would likely be doing long term harm. I'm not really interested in arguing about it. Do what you please. There are lifelong consequences to many things we do in life, so it's worth trying to find the truth about what is truly a healthy diet. The diet war isn't making it easy for any of us to find this out.

This sums it up best:
Every person has the right to decide what they want to eat.
...
At the end of the day, there is no one right way to eat. Some people thrive on a low-carb diet that includes animal foods, others may do fine on a vegan diet.

http://authoritynutrition.com/low-carb- ... egetarian/

That said, if someone is choosing to eat low carb high fat then I would like to provide advice to make it as healthy as they can. Plenty of veggies, some fruit and no processed meats is better than all fat and processed meats and no veggies or fruit.

Personally, I choose to be vegetarian with some dairy and eggs included in my diet. I think there is plenty of evidence around that lacto-ovo vegetarian is a healthy diet.

Compared with regular meat eaters, which included participants with at least weekly meat consumption, mortality from ischemic heart disease was 20 percent lower in occasional meat eaters, and 26 percent lower in vegans (i.e., those who consumed no animal products whatsoever, including meat, eggs, and dairy products). The largest reduction (34 percent) was noted in lacto-ovo vegetarians (i.e., those who ate eggs and dairy products) and in those who ate fish but no other meat.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2009/0401/p541.html

I think in any discussion of health and diets it would useful to keep false analogies to a minimum. For example, comparing a person struggling with weight issues to a pro team cyclist isn't particularly useful. Pro team cyclists aren't low fat vegans either. Also, "judging a book by it's cover" by dismissing an eating plan based on how it's author looks is unhelpful. Using that logic you would dismiss low fat vegan because Dean Ornish is overweight:
Image

I will leave the last word up to Dr. Fuhrman, who advoces a plant based, low fat approach to eating (and incidentally, looks healthy too):
Both vegetarian and omnivorous and diets can be made healthful or harmful; nutritious food choices, wise supplementation and nutritional sophistication will make the difference in the type of diet you choose. Following a strict vegetarian diet is not as important as eating a diet rich in fruits and vegetables. Inclusion of high nutrient produce, including nuts, seeds, fruits, vegetables and beans are an essential part of every healthy diet.

http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/article5.aspx
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7329
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby Nobody » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:41 pm

Nobody wrote:I can't see a low-carb diet being effective for cyclists interested in performance. I think you can be pretty confident that no pro teams would be using them.

casual_cyclist wrote:I think in any discussion of health and diets it would useful to keep false analogies to a minimum. For example, comparing a person struggling with weight issues to a pro team cyclist isn't particularly useful.
Please point out where I made this comparison? For all I know, Zill may not cycle for performance. All I have stated is that regardless of how many studies say low carb is good, you won't be able to get optimal aerobic performance with it. If this was a car forum, then that might not be a consideration. But since it is a bicycling forum, it may be something some may consider as important.

As for criticism of The China Study, all I say is it's difficult to build but easy to tear down.
Nobody
 
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby zill » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:32 pm

I tend to agree with casual cyclist's views on HFLC

I'm not strictly following it but use it as a guideline. The significant thing i'm changing is not to have too much fat and also allow significant amounts of fruit (the only carbs i'm allowed to eat in large quantities).

This definitely eliminates most processed foods including desserts from cafes (i'm not even going to have hot chocolate anymore).

So i'm borrowing ideas from both Aitken's and durianrider!

In this sense, my diet does look like a caveman's diet although do allow myself plenty of dairy.

I actually am training for cycling performance as well.
zill
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:34 pm

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:13 pm

Nobody wrote:For all I know, Zill may not cycle for performance. All I have stated is that regardless of how many studies say low carb is good, you won't be able to get optimal aerobic performance with it.

I never said that you could get get optimal aerobic performance with low carb high fat and I would never suggest that way of eating to anyone. Zill raised that he is going low carb high fat and the sole purpose of my post was to point out that should not mean eating processed meats, cutting back veggies or fruit. That is not an endorsement of low carb high fat or a suggestion that anyone interested in performance should eat that way.
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7329
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:25 pm

zill wrote:I actually am training for cycling performance as well.

I would not suggest low carb high fat for cycling performance but if you are going to do it you should read up on other people who have.

Apparently some guy named Joe Friel seems to know a little bit about cycling. This is what he said:
The bottom line is that last fall I lost 8 pounds in 9 weeks by eating more fat and less carbohydrate. That was 5% of my body weight (160 pounds – at the time I was well on my way to my normal winter weight). I was never hungry. In fact, it seemed like the more fat I ate, the more weight I lost.

However, there may be issues with certain types of crits. He doesn't know.
It could well be that my top end power in frequent max efforts during a race won’t be sustainable on this diet. Such efforts are typically the determiners of road race and criterium outcomes. But I don’t see any downsides for steady state events done at or below the lactate threshold.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2013/08/ag ... eight.html

Another article on high fat low carb athletes:
Part 1 - http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/08/high- ... r-cycling/
Part 2 - http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/09/high- ... o-try-one/

Note that not everyone is a fan. From part 2:
I’m not convinced that the HFLC approach will provide a benefit to competitive road cyclists. In road cycling inevitably the outcome of the race is determined by short periods of very high intensity riding (e.g. establishing a break, sprinting, dragging off an opponent on a climb, etc). It’s likely that the HFLC approach will probably reduce the ability to put out maximum power when the race is up for grabs.
<removed by request>
User avatar
casual_cyclist
 
Posts: 7329
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am
Location: Kewdale

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby WarbyD » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:30 pm

BTW - If you do go the HFLC route, give it time for your body to adjust to the change in energy source before calling it a failure.. I can't remember the specifics of it, but there are differences in the way your body metabolises each and whatnot.. I would recommend reading up on Carb Back Loading / Carb Nite Solution for some general information about it in the context of strength sports (which I imagine has some relevance to the short duration efforts mentioned above). John Kiefer has a background as a physicist, so is fairly detailed in his approach to research and presentation of information to support his position.
WarbyD
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:13 pm

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby Greg@home » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:44 pm

I'm addicted to Ice cream.....I love it...

I only eat dinner to get to the icecream part....
B.L.T.H....Brake late,Turn hard
User avatar
Greg@home
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:45 pm

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:45 pm

I kicked the ice cream habit, in the end I saw it as a source of too much sugar. Initially I went 50/50 ice cream/yoghurt then later killed it completly
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby Greg@home » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:16 pm

I'm trying the "yoghurt" thing ....

I loveeee sweet stuff
B.L.T.H....Brake late,Turn hard
User avatar
Greg@home
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:45 pm

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby zill » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:23 am

Greg@home wrote:I'm trying the "yoghurt" thing ....

I loveeee sweet stuff


What about try pure cream with almost no sugar?

It really fills you up so gets rid of dessert cravings!
zill
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:34 pm

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:48 pm

Good logic, but what/where is the product? I'd like to try it
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby zill » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:25 am

mikesbytes wrote:Good logic, but what/where is the product? I'd like to try it


Try the brand Gippsland and their double cream!

I seem to have ended my addiction to desserts. Maybe it was just a phase which I am over now.

Do people know a good cheese product that is very low on carbs?

Also anybody know a good brand of sausages which are very low in carbs?
zill
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:34 pm

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby riverride » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:34 pm

Cottage cheese?
riverride
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:31 am

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby Andy » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:58 pm

Barambah organic natural yoghurt. Soooo gooood With honey banana and walnuts...Phwoarrr

http://www.barambahorganics.com.au/organic-yoghurt/natural-organic-yoghurt/
User avatar
Andy
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:22 am

Re: "Addicted" to desserts

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:03 pm

I make fruit platters for dessert a couple of times a week
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Previous

Return to Cycling Health

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit