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Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:51 pm
by mikesbytes
Interesting info CK. It does sound like worrying about calorie absorption caused by fibre is cherry picking and as you mentioned having fibre in your diet assists in preventing one from over eating.

I'll be interested to here the highlights of your fibre studies. Also what you think of the term "dietary fibre" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_fiber

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:03 am
by mikesbytes
I was requested to make a vegetable breakfast at my sisters place. Here's the vegan version made for the 1 vegan present. She was out numbered by 5 carnivores

Image

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:35 am
by CKinnard
a balanced plate! was this Sun or Mon brekky?

I was looking at the cucumber and tomato wondering how to make it more aesthetically enticing....and thought about salsa for inspiration.
I'd try it with the cucumber in as well.

Ingredients

8 medium tomatoes
½ cup diced red onion
1 jalapeño pepper (serrano pepper also works)
½ cup fresh cilantro
1-2 garlic cloves
1 tbsp lemon juice
1 tbsp lime juice
1 tsp salt
½ tsp pepper
½ tsp cumin

Directions

Finely dice tomatoes, red onion, jalapeño pepper, garlic and cilantro. Combine in a large bowl and add lemon juice, lime juice and seasoning.
Alternatively, process all ingredients in a food processor for 30 seconds.

Notes
Storage:
Store in the refrigerator in an airtight container for up to 1 week.
Jalapeño Peppers:
Remove the seeds for a more mild flavour. I personally leave the seeds.

Image

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:18 pm
by mikesbytes
Sunday breakie. Also contributed to the breakfast was a small amount of homemade bread, made by Sis and Sis also made Brazilian cheese ball thingies as instructed by a Brazilian who was present. I have no idea what the ingredients were but they were all consumed

The salsa looks and sounds great CK. I didn't know you could store it for a week, that means you could have it at 3 or so meals from one batch of preparation

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:54 pm
by mikesbytes
Link to youtube video removed as it contains bad language

cheers Mike

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:56 pm
by CKinnard
I'd like to know how those Brazilian cheese balls were made.

btw, there's a dozen ways to make salsa, with less ingredients than above.
http://www.taste.com.au/recipes/salsa-2/5814bd68-785b-481e-a0c9-0227bc4eb95f

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:23 am
by Nobody
Mike,

I'll start by saying that I don't generally eat any soy products. The last time I had one was over a year ago at a acquaintance's house.

Having said that, the video is blaming soy for the decrease testosterone in men over recent decades. The problem with blaming soy for this correlation is that most men wouldn't eat/drink soy. Plastics have been linked with reduced testosterone in men. BPA was originally created as an artificial oestrogen, but manufacturers decided to use it to soften some plastics. You can find it most in receipts which most of us touch regularly. Canned foods also can have it. So I don't generally eat canned food anymore either.
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/bpa/
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-to-avoid-the-obesity-related-plastic-chemical-bpa/
There can be other reasons too.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/male-fertility-and-diet/

The video also goes into gyno problems. I have a bit of that problem on my right side which developed at about 13yo. The interesting thing about that is I was growing up on a fat lamb farm at the time and generally ate lamb and freshly milked cow's milk every day. No soy.

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:31 pm
by CKinnard
Mike, I like PJW's views....on politics and current affairs....but this vegan attack thing by conservatives and libertarians is unwise. The science is way too nuanced for such videos.

The situation regarding soy's effect on testosterone levels is not settled.

Below are several highly regarded papers on the matter, all finding soy in even moderately high quantities has not been shown to reduce testosterone.

_____________________________________________________________________

this paper regarded as very strong evidence

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224
Clinical studies show no effects of soy protein or isoflavones on reproductive hormones in men: results of a meta-analysis.
Hamilton-Reeves JM1, Vazquez G, Duval SJ, Phipps WR, Kurzer MS, Messina MJ.
Fertil Steril. 2010 Aug;94(3):997-1007.

RESULT(S): No significant effects of soy protein or isoflavone intake on T, SHBG, free T, or FAI were detected regardless of statistical model.
CONCLUSIONS: The results of this meta-analysis suggest that neither soy foods nor isoflavone supplements alter measures of bioavailable T concentrations in men.
__________________________________________________


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 91152a.pdf
Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but
normal bioavailable androgens in vegan men
NE Allen, PN Appleby, GK Davey and TJ Key
British Journal of Cancer, (2000) 83(1), 95–97

Summary
Mean serum insulin-like growth factor-I was 9% lower in 233 vegan men than in 226 meat-eaters and 237 vegetarians (P= 0.002). Vegans had higher testosterone levels than vegetarians and meat-eaters, but this was offset by higher sex hormone binding globulin, and there were no differences between diet groups in free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide or luteinizing hormone.

T (testosterone)
raw scores
vegans
13%> meat eaters, 8% >vegetarians
BMI adjusted
6%>meat eaters, 7%>vegetarians

The vegan advantage is accounted for by higher levels of SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin).

There's no difference in free testosterone between groups.

IGF-1
vegan men IGF-1 9%<meat eaters

__________________________________________________


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20378106
Fertil Steril. 2010 May 1;93(7):2095-104
Soybean isoflavone exposure does not have feminizing effects on men: a critical examination of the clinical evidence.
Messina M1.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To critically evaluate the clinical evidence, and when not available, the animal data, most relevant to concerns that isoflavone exposure in the form of supplements or soy foods has feminizing effects on men.
DESIGN: Medline literature review and cross-reference of published data.
RESULT(S): In contrast to the results of some rodent studies, findings from a recently published metaanalysis and subsequently published studies show that neither isoflavone supplements nor isoflavone-rich soy affect total or free testosterone (T) levels. Similarly, there is essentially no evidence from the nine identified clinical studies that isoflavone exposure affects circulating estrogen levels in men. Clinical evidence also indicates that isoflavones have no effect on sperm or semen parameters, although only three intervention studies were identified and none were longer than 3 months in duration. Finally, findings from animal studies suggesting that isoflavones increase the risk of erectile dysfunction are not applicable to men, because of differences in isoflavone metabolism between rodents and humans and the excessively high amount of isoflavones to which the animals were exposed.
CONCLUSION(S): The intervention data indicate that isoflavones do not exert feminizing effects on men at intake levels equal to and even considerably higher than are typical for Asian males.


_________________________________________________-

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1480510/
The Science of Soy: What Do We Really Know?
Julia R. Barrett
Environ Health Perspect. 2006 Jun; 114(6): A352–A358


In advising caution in feeding infants soy formula, several groups cite a study led by Richard Sharpe at the Centre for Reproductive Biology in Edinburgh, Scotland. The study, published in Human Reproduction in July 2002, compared infant marmosets fed cow’s milk–based formula with others that were fed soy-based formula. The soy-fed marmosets had comparatively lower testosterone levels and higher numbers of Leydig cells per testis. However, a follow-up study published in April 2006, also in Human Reproduction, indicated no obvious effects on reproduction.

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:40 pm
by mikesbytes
CKinnard wrote:I'd like to know how those Brazilian cheese balls were made.


Sis has got back to me

Pao de Queijo
• 2 cups tapioca flour
• 1 cup milk
• 1 tsp salt
• 1 cup grated tasty cheese
• 1/2 cup parmesan cheese (or just use more tasty cheese, but it’s better with parmesan)
• 2 eggs
• 1/2 cup butter/margarine

Method
1. Bring to a boil the milk, salt and butter (stirring constantly).
2. Remove from heat. Add and mix the tapioca flour, then the eggs and cheese.
3. Preheat the oven to 200 degrees Celsius.
4. Use an ice cream scoop and scoop into muffin trays. Should make 12 balls. Bake for about 20 minutes - the top will be golden brown.
5. Eat warm preferably or microwave at a later date.

You can buy loose tapioca flour at the Lotus Supermarket. (It's called tapioca starch by the Indians but is the same thing).
In fact you can usually buy it at any Indian or Chinese shop (but perhaps not loose and I don't want any leftovers because I have too much). So Stoddard Road probably.

Stoddard Road is referring to an Indian supermarket called Lotus Supermarket in Auckland that sells a wide variety of products loose so you can buy exactly the amount you want. I was impressed with how reasonable the pricing was of the loose items, will keep an eye out for a similar place in Sydney near where I live

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:59 pm
by mikesbytes
The video typifies how one community in the nutrition debate discredits other nutrition communities. In this case they seem to have used a presenter who most likely has no nutritional qualifications but has a reputation for using shock tactics to present a message.

It did open one question that intrigued me, he stated that 25% of babies were consuming soy baby formula in the US. I haven't noticed that product on supermarket shelves in Australia. I'll have a look next time I'm at the supermarket

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:01 pm
by CKinnard
Hooley Dooley. I would have enjoyed those balls decades ago.
Not now. animal fat, salt, refined carbs :)
tapioca used to be very common when I was a kid, then went out of favor.
it's back now cos it is gluten free and a great binding agent.

tell your sis to have a scout around for cassava flour....same as tapioca but less processed.

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:18 pm
by CKinnard
mikesbytes wrote:The video typifies how one community in the nutrition debate discredits other nutrition communities. In this case they seem to have used a presenter who most likely has no nutritional qualifications but has a reputation for using shock tactics to present a message.

It did open one question that intrigued me, he stated that 25% of babies were consuming soy baby formula in the US. I haven't noticed that product on supermarket shelves in Australia. I'll have a look next time I'm at the supermarket


I don't identify as a vegan as I don't like their PR or politics....plus they don't advocate a healthy diet.
That's why PBWF became a thing.

Radical Marxist types have been aligning themselves with various apparently noble causes for decades to sanitize and mainstream their unpalatable ideologies.
i.e.
- the Greens Party is just the Australian Communist Party rebadged. (ask yourself why the Greens don't push vegan diet if their primary concern is global warming.....whoops that tag got replaced with...climate change)
- the Sex Party recently changed its name and picked up cycling advocacy as a major policy.....gee I wonder why. :D

PJW is just hitting back at the extreme left, without adequately understanding nutrition science.

Anyway, I appreciate BNA has a policy of its readers being kept ignorant about this stuff, so I will shut up :wink:

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:35 pm
by mikesbytes
Outgrouping by associating the target with consumption of a particular food. Anyway as you said, time to move on.

CKinnard wrote:Hooley Dooley. I would have enjoyed those balls decades ago.
Not now. animal fat, salt, refined carbs :)
tapioca used to be very common when I was a kid, then went out of favor.
it's back now cos it is gluten free and a great binding agent.

tell your sis to have a scout around for cassava flour....same as tapioca but less processed.


That's why they tasted so good :) - Place them under the occasional food category.

They also weren't compatible with all the guests, as one was a vegan. I did a quick search and looked at two vegan versions. No idea what the vegan versions tasted like, one could only know by trying them, so I've sent links to sis to see if she try's for the vegan next time.

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:08 pm
by mikesbytes
Post by a facebook friend

People often have a giggle when I say I don't drink. From saving an unquantifiable amount of money in the last 17 years (lets see - $50 per week for drinks x (say) 30 weeks a year x 17 years = $25,500 PLUS save on cabs/Uber - $80 home x (say) 20 weeks a year x 17 years = another $27,200: so a total of (conservatively) $52,700 in my pocket by not being a conservative drinker), the extra time I have had (no hangovers) to get things done, and the health benefits....

Can't recommend it enough!


It hadn't occurred to me that people would spend $50 on booze in a week, but thinking it thru the maths in the post, that works out at an average of $28.80 a week (per person), which is easily spent on a single bottle of wine for each of two dinners out a week

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:28 pm
by Nobody
It appears to be part of our culture to spend money on products that reduce our health. Drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, caffeinated drinks, poor/addictive food, restaurants etc. If you do none of these things you are considered to be weird. Just shows that people are more emotional beings than logical. No wonder I'm becoming more reclusive as I get older.

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:32 pm
by CKinnard
I admire anyone who refrains from alcohol, and goes their own way. The world doesn't need anymore unconscious zombies herding around the trough, thinking the same, dressing the same, dying the same.

Dr Klaper at True North is an unusually logical thinker, and rattled off all the reasons alcohol should not be consumed. The list was too long to remember!

To my mind, alcohol's greatest cost is opportunity to do something more productive.
The days and energy pssd up against the wall could be spent in a second job, learning manual skills, building wealth when one is strongest and has most energy. Instead, Aussie culture is to flip it off with "she'll be right mate". This is the problem with an overly generous welfare system and a culture of diminished self responsibility. The older I get, the more the values of my forefathers seem the only way forwards.

I have struggled at various times with alcohol. It's never stopped me from working, but it doesn't help one move forward.
In the middle of this year I didn't touch it for 4 months, then a couple of months ago I started having a few glasses of wine with dinner. It wasn't too long before the craving controlled me. Then the desire for salt and sweet stuff kicks in strongly, and the weight starts to come back on! Anyway, I finally kicked it a week ago. It varies in how long it takes me to get rid of the cravings. Sometimes a few days. Sometimes 2-3 weeks.

I think the best way to get over it is to hang with others who don't drink, and fill your life up doing constructive stuff so you just don't have the time to drink. And don't let stress build up!

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:06 am
by mikesbytes
I don't have booze in the house, because if I do, I simply end up consuming it because its there. I also live 300mtrs from a bottle outlet so when I really want a drink I walk down and buy it.

Went to an upmarket Christmas party on the weekend, it was in an inconvenient location for public transport and not practicable to cycle home from, so I drove and that meant that I took it easy on the booze, which is a good thing. The cost of a cab (assuming I could get one) far outweighed any desire to have a tonne of free drinks and I didn't feel left out not getting smashed

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:07 pm
by Nobody
CKinnard wrote:I admire anyone who refrains from alcohol, and goes their own way. The world doesn't need anymore unconscious zombies herding around the trough, thinking the same, dressing the same, dying the same.

Thanks. I used to have 1/2 to 1 beer a year at work just to show I can drink. But more recently I've found I'm over making an effort to fit in.

CKinnard wrote:Dr Klaper at True North is an unusually logical thinker, and rattled off all the reasons alcohol should not be consumed. The list was too long to remember!

The bigger ones for me are increased cancer risk and upsetting my microbiom.

CKinnard wrote:To my mind, alcohol's greatest cost is opportunity to do something more productive.

Totally agree. But then I think the same about caffeine too. As you likely know, it doesn't make sense to drink a beverage that on average diminishes your cognitive abilities. Since just after a caffeine beverage (for a typical user) you're only as good cognitively as a non-caffeine drinker. Then it's all down hill from there until the next hit.

Both my adopted father and natural father were alcoholics at one time. I learnt young that drinking regularly wasn't a path I wanted to take in life.

CKinnard wrote:This is the problem with an overly generous welfare system and a culture of diminished self responsibility. The older I get, the more the values of my forefathers seem the only way forwards.

I was listening to 2UE's Healthly Living program on the way to work yesterday evening. Ross Walker was making a case for global birth control and said something like only 48% of the population pays tax and 40% of that goes to welfare in AU. He was making the point that the current level of tax is already a large burden. From what I gather, that doesn't include the ever increasing health costs.

CKinnard wrote:Anyway, I finally kicked it a week ago. It varies in how long it takes me to get rid of the cravings. Sometimes a few days. Sometimes 2-3 weeks.

Good one. Doug Lisle did a video explaining cravings a while ago. IIRC correctly, he said that cravings can suddenly come back months later too.

CKinnard wrote:I think the best way to get over it is to hang with others who don't drink...

Or isolate yourself (more). Works for me. :)

CKinnard wrote:...and fill your life up doing constructive stuff so you just don't have the time to drink. And don't let stress build up!

For some, filling up one's life may become a stress in itself. I'm often trying to simplify my life so I've got time to cook well, exercise and do other things that are more important to me.

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:16 pm
by CKinnard
Nobody wrote:For some, filling up one's life may become a stress in itself. I'm often trying to simplify my life so I've got time to cook well, exercise and do other things that are more important to me.


yep. I should have said fill your life up, nice and balanced!

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:19 pm
by Nobody
mikesbytes wrote:I don't have booze in the house, because if I do, I simply end up consuming it because its there. I also live 300mtrs from a bottle outlet so when I really want a drink I walk down and buy it.

Like "Chef AJ" says, "if it's in your house, it's in your mouth". But as said before, I'm a bit different to most. My house is full of junk and it doesn't make any difference to me. In my mind, it's their food, not mine. Same for alcohol. Sometimes bottles of spirits can be in our house for years without anyone touching them.
I'm about 400m or less from three bottle shops and a pub. Says something about this country's consumption of alcohol.

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:41 pm
by Nobody
Had a dig through the Financial Express site to find the following:

Too high or low HDL levels increase risk of death. Not the first time I've heard about this.
http://www.financialexpress.com/lifestyle/health/too-much-of-good-cholesterol-bad-for-your-health-says-study/822587/

High salt intake and heart failure risk.
http://www.financialexpress.com/lifestyle/health/high-salt-intake-doubles-heart-failure-risk-says-study/829503/

Red meat and poultry consumption ups diabetes risk. They say mainly due to heme iron.
http://www.financialexpress.com/lifestyle/health/eating-red-meat-poultry-may-up-diabetes-risk/843549/

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:43 pm
by mikesbytes
Yet another diet programme. This one is trying to avoid bloating

Article on the low FODMAP diet

I'm guessing from a human viewpoint, these intestinal bacteria are useful in digesting sugars that haven't been successfully processed. However the same bacteria have downsides

Re: Diet Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:11 pm
by Baalzamon
mikesbytes wrote:Yet another diet programme. This one is trying to avoid bloating

Article on the low FODMAP diet

I'm guessing from a human viewpoint, these intestinal bacteria are useful in digesting sugars that haven't been successfully processed. However the same bacteria have downsides


Everyone is an individual and each has a different response to food whether it is an internal or external reaction ie bloating, excessive insulin spiking, gut discomfort (IBS). What works for one will not work for another one and is up to the individual to find out what food is suitable for them to eat.

Like I can handle cows milk for about 3 weeks before I break out in dermatitis on my fingers. But I'm perfectly fine with cream. I only have cows milk when I'm with BV volunteering on the Great Rides.