Plant Based Diet Thread

Forum rules
The information / discussion in the Cycling Health Forum is not qualified medical advice. Please consult your doctor.
Nobody
Posts: 8509
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:39 am

Well my weight gain cycle is over. All I did was add Medjool dates and chickpeas to my diet for a month or so to gain 4 kg. In some ways it was good for me since I needed to regain upper body strength after at least 2 months of avoiding arm exercises. That was because of my head-on crash on a cycle path in early July which gave me soft tissue damage to my elbow. It's still not 100%, but the exercise is helping.

I plan to lose a 2 or 3 kg and 2 cm or so off the waist by the end of the year. Without the beans and dates it should be easy, which goes to show that just eating whole food, plant only is not enough to maintain ideal weight. It needs to be well planned, taking into account macronutrient ratio and calorie density for ad-lib eating. If that doesn't work, then a slight calorie restriction or intermittent feeding/fasting (which is just another form of calorie restriction) might help.

Post in Loser Club thread.
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=92822&start=150#p1422745

I was also hoping to have more blood tests by now. But since I had the flu for about 5 weeks, that plan went out the window. I'm going to the specialist in less than a month, so I'll just wait for the results or those blood tests instead.

march83
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:42 am

Nobody wrote: add Medjool dates and chickpeas


This is the height of decadence in my books. I'm easily pleased and I don't ask for too much. If I ate what I wanted, when I wanted I'd be rotating through big servings of medjools, turkish figs, dried apricots and dried pairs. At 400cal/100g that makes a pretty big dent in my caloric allowance so I avoid them completely. When we go to our local co-op we can buy by weight so sometimes I get myself 2 or 3 figs but that's about it.

just eating whole food, plant only is not enough to maintain ideal weight. It needs to be well planned


Couldn't agree more. I imagine that if everything plant-based was available to me I ate what I wanted based on impulses I'd probably eventually mediate my habits to some degree, but not until I'd put on considerable weight. Additionally, I don't think that the desire to eat "just a little bit more" would just magically disappear at some particular weight - it's driven by something else, something hormonal, emotional, stress, fatigue, a little bit through bad habits, etc. If I moved to the country and never had to work another day in my life with nothing to worry about other than where to ride and keeping the wife happy then maybe, but living and working in the city while raising kids, going to uni, there's just too many out of control factors.

So for now, I'll just forget about eating dates, limitless piles of chickpeas and just about anything with a calorie density above about 1cal/g (avocado and beans can have a pass)...

ball bearing
Posts: 918
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:43 pm
Location: Watching the ships on the Southern Ocean

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby ball bearing » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:19 am

Nobody wrote:
I was also hoping to have more blood tests by now. But since I had the flu for about 5 weeks, that plan went out the window.


I'm surprised that your immune system appears to be weak. Is this due to your iron/blood condition? I ask because I am able to avoid catching the flu and colds (knock on wood) that make the rounds every season. As a kid eating the standard omnivorous heavy milk diet I well remember contracting the flu, asthma, constipation, headaches...etc.

My dietary goals are not weight focused and I am at the higher end of normal BMI. I don't have a classic climber's build and I think that if I did get to my rock bottom weight I would be going against my DNA.

I do wonder if being really thin can possibly compromise one's immune system.

Forgot: I eat a ton of dried dates in a morning smoothie.

User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 18452
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney
Contact:

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:09 pm

Nobody, congrats on hitting your weight gain targets. It will be interesting to hear how you went with the target strength increase, as at the end of year when you have stripped back.

There's been some lingering bugs around this winter, I've heard of the prolonged bouts from so many and it doesn't seem to make much difference as to your fitness and health this year.
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

Nobody
Posts: 8509
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:33 pm

CKinnard wrote:Cooking whole foods also increases energy absorbed by as much as 100% over raw food.

Yeah, all my veg gets cooked except the onion and garlic.

CKinnard wrote:Often, the devil's in the detail! :shock:

That's what I believe makes it hard for people to learn. Most think they already know about diet, so they're not willing to dig into the detail enough to realise there's more to it than the newspaper or their friend tells them.

ball bearing wrote:I'm surprised that your immune system appears to be weak. Is this due to your iron/blood condition?

I'm just the best version of me. I'm not perfect. I still get the flu every year. This recent one just happened to leave me with a cough that lasted up to 6 weeks.

In comparison my father who eats SAD, is at least high end overweight says he never gets sick. But he's had two strokes. If all goes to plan, I shouldn't get any of those.

I'll keep my judgements on how healthy I am to blood tests, body measurements and/or weight and what chronic illnesses I get. Acute illnesses are largely out of my control.

As for iron loading, it shouldn't be a factor currently as my last blood test showed I had low ferritin (long term measure) of 31 (range 30 -300).

ball bearing wrote:I do wonder if being really thin can possibly compromise one's immune system.

Being too thin can be fatal. I don't know about immune system compromise, but CK posted earlier in one of these threads about the link between being obese and getting more acute illnesses. According to the graph in this post, the ideal BMI for healthy men appears to be about 20 to 23.

mikesbytes wrote:Nobody, congrats on hitting your weight gain targets. It will be interesting to hear how you went with the target strength increase, as at the end of year when you have stripped back.

Thanks.
As you know, I primarily wanted to speed up building strength after the injury.
Overhand pull ups went from 6 to 10 reliably. I can squeeze out the 11th, but I need to stop for a second or so.
Push ups on knuckles and touching floor went from < 20 to 40 reliably. I would have liked to get to 50, but I've been too busy/lazy to train more. Also being almost 50yo doesn't help.
I doubt I'll gain much while losing weight. It should be just maintenance.

mikesbytes wrote:There's been some lingering bugs around this winter, I've heard of the prolonged bouts from so many and it doesn't seem to make much difference as to your fitness and health this year.

Yes, it appeared more contagious than normal and lasted longer than normal for most who got it. It was probably the longest lasting flu I've ever had.

User avatar
CKinnard
Posts: 2456
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:38 am

march83 wrote:
Nobody wrote: just eating whole food, plant only is not enough to maintain ideal weight. It needs to be well planned


Couldn't agree more. I imagine that if everything plant-based was available to me I ate what I wanted based on impulses I'd probably eventually mediate my habits to some degree, but not until I'd put on considerable weight. Additionally, I don't think that the desire to eat "just a little bit more" would just magically disappear at some particular weight - it's driven by something else, something hormonal, emotional, stress, fatigue, a little bit through bad habits, etc


I've said the same many times.
The diehards who push this agenda that you can eat PBWF til satiation, and reach your ideal weight, are adding to the confusion and non science of nutrition.

Without exception I would argue they are talking primarily from personal experience or blind bias. A small % of people can eat til satiation and not gain excess weight, but on the whole those who have struggled with excess weight cannot.
I've talked about the reasons before - variation in thermic effect of food (sympathetic nerve and brown adipose tissue heat generation after a large meal, variations in thyroid function, core body temperature, gut absorption efficiency; lean tissue mass, adrenal fatigue, unconscious non exercise thermogenesis such as fidgeting....)

This view persists among PBWF authorities. Neal Barnard, Caldwell Esselstyn, John McDougall, Alan Goldhamer, Michael Klaper, Anthony Lim all espouse carte blanche that portion control or Calorie counting is totally unnecessary on their diets. I think that's BS. I am often perplexed that smart people who obviously know a lot about nutrition can have such profound blind spots in certain areas.

People who have weight issues on the whole have dysregulated satiation signaling, and struggle with cravings, for whatever reason.
They cannot rely on eating without restriction, or eating til 80% full, or other fuzzy guidelines.

Nobody
Posts: 8509
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:35 pm

CKinnard wrote:This view persists among PBWF authorities. Neal Barnard, Caldwell Esselstyn, John McDougall, Alan Goldhamer, Michael Klaper, Anthony Lim all espouse carte blanche that portion control or Calorie counting is totally unnecessary on their diets. I think that's BS. I am often perplexed that smart people who obviously know a lot about nutrition can have such profound blind spots in certain areas.

You are correct.
However, [bare with me] after reading some of their books I did get the basic message that would work for most people initially. Until their stomachs adapt to eating much greater quantities of food. Maybe they're dumbing down the message too much. Jeff Novick champions the message of calorie density and they all know (or know of) him. Not that density is the whole answer either.
For the reason I think they are dumbing down the message too much is why I try to write "how to" posts. Rather than just say, "read Dr X's book". They include intermittent feeding/fasting if necessary as calorie restriction. The calorie density that Jeff recommends to lose weight is < 88 Cal/100g (including fibre), which is quite low. But I can now easily gain weight with an average Cal density in the 70s by just adding some beans and dates. Dates were always on the restricted list. However beans are on the encouraged list, but clearly don't work for some.

In the end, to be successful people need to take in dietary information and then self experiment to find what works for them. If nothing works, then after structuring their diet to an optimal level, they can chase the (other) forms of calorie restriction. If there are still problems (usually with conforming to what's required), then (as you've said) the environment needs work. By this stage, staying on the wagon usually requires serious commitment. More than most people in this situation have. So like you say, in the end it's mainly a psychological problem.

CKinnard wrote:People who have weight issues on the whole have dysregulated satiation signaling, and struggle with cravings, for whatever reason.
They cannot rely on eating without restriction, or eating til 80% full, or other fuzzy guidelines.

So what is the answer in the end? Take them out of their environment? Stomach stapling/banding? To somehow change their entire mindset? There doesn't appear to be any simple and/or easy answers for them.

User avatar
CKinnard
Posts: 2456
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:36 pm

Nobody wrote:So what is the answer in the end? Take them out of their environment? Stomach stapling/banding? To somehow change their entire mindset? There doesn't appear to be any simple and/or easy answers for them.


The answer is one has to have a rough idea of Calories consumed.
People who have struggled with weight tend to favor piling on heavier foods, like legumes, starchy carbs, avocodo, nuts, seeds.....and they under do the fibrous carbs.
I've seen this time and again. It's the rule rather than the exception for big people....and there's no doubt a lot of reasons why the prefer heavier foods to get satiated (Doug Lisle's psych addiction stuff, etc).

So to have a rough idea of Calories consumed, one needs a system that controls food groups in right proportions.
Jeff's average energy density is a form of Calorie counting.
Calorie counting as via phone apps is painful but does the trick.
And you've seen my solution before, such as below. This one hasn't been rounded down to whole cups, though most people can deal with that. There's decimals because I set values for a lowerCalorie intake, and higher intake, and let math fill in the columns in between.

There's two things required for weight mgt:
1. optimal nutrient intake which means getting each food group's intake balanced with the others.
2 getting total Calories dialed in, which one can do by experimentation, or good energy expenditure estimation (which is what I do).

Both are critical to optimal nutrition. the
I can't remember the details about Jeff's system, as in how he controls the right total energy intake for people of different body sizes and activity levels.

Image

User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 18452
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney
Contact:

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:43 pm

Behavior change is what interests me, its not a case of education, that's the easy bit, its getting people into a position where they are able to make better choices and that's not easy.

To use an analogy why do most people eating at McDonald's choose the chips when they can have the salad at the same price?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

User avatar
CKinnard
Posts: 2456
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:12 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Behavior change is what interests me, its not a case of education, that's the easy bit, its getting people into a position where they are able to make better choices and that's not easy.

To use an analogy why do most people eating at McDonald's choose the chips when they can have the salad at the same price?


I agree Mike that on the one hand you have education about nutrition, and balanced appropriately sized intake...and the salt sugar oil influence.

Then on the other hand there's behavioral emotional stuff that stirs up cravings and weakens the will.

It takes a good communicator to educate clients clearly about how the two sides intertplay, and to provide strategies to avoid cravings eventuating, and how to manage them when they do.

Where I've moved in the last 5 yeras in particular is touching on life meaning, big life goals, self respect, relationship stuff. because I think this is the territory that sends the emotions (and appetite) into a spin.

The benefit of 'going there' with clients is that talking to someone about this stuff who really listens and has good advice that opens their mind to 'a way out of the hell realm', is very good for business. People will tend to lock onto you, and stay with you if they feel you are supportive and genuinely understand their journey, respect them, and can give good advice on how to move forwards.
In my view a majority of people seeking a retail service fit into this category. They will respond if you can listen......so few people providing a service engage with people meaningfully these days due to time pressure and lack of life experience.
But there's a significant demand for it.

Fruit
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Fruit » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:14 am

Nobody wrote: rural Chinese were eating more calories than the Americans and had a lower BMI. Which gets back to the message of what you eat can more important than how much


How much is the higher activity of the Chinese giving them a lower BMI?

Nobody
Posts: 8509
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:32 am

Fruit wrote:
Nobody wrote: rural Chinese were eating more calories than the Americans and had a lower BMI. Which gets back to the message of what you eat can be more important than how much


How much is the higher activity of the Chinese giving them a lower BMI?

The claim was that they were both office workers. The only difference being a bicycle ride to work, rather than driving. I think I got the details from the book "The China Study" or one of Campbell's videos. There is also Cornell's "The China Project" web site if you want an overview.

As for my original statement above, "Which gets back to the message of what you eat can be more important than how much." With more knowledge now, I'd say that applies more to overall health more than weight management. Yes the Chinese IIRC were eating the same or more calories than the Americans. But the type of food the Chinese ate had more losses from fibre, thermic losses and lower calorie absorption than processed foods. So the net absorb-able calories would have likely been lower.

User avatar
V2rocketeer
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:13 pm

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby V2rocketeer » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:50 pm

Gday all

I 50 and my wife 57 are both interested in a plant based diet or at least mostly plant based, as I'm struggling with the idea of reducing much less giving up meat. I'm 6' and 102 kilos. (I won't divulge the Mrs' stats for fear of losing more than weight) 8 years ago I was 77 - 80 kilos and rode my bicycle to work every day. A big move making a round trip commute to work over 100k stopped my commuting. This year my wife and I have decided to lose some weight and excersize more as we are feeling time catching up to us. We ride most days now 10 to 20 ks so not a great amount but since we are both shift workers it is what we can get in. We would like to do some touring in the Nordic countries before our bodies give up lol. So (and I have to work with my doctor on this as I have also had 2 heart attacks in the past. 6 years since my last one) we are looking at making a real change for health. Are there any cycle related books or youtubes on making a big change from pizza and may the gods forbid even mentioning steak to a more sustainable mostly plant based diet that is not some gimmicky fad?

Bear

Nobody
Posts: 8509
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:30 pm

V2rocketeer wrote:Are there any cycle related books or youtubes on making a big change from pizza and may the gods forbid even mentioning steak to a more sustainable mostly plant based diet that is not some gimmicky fad?

Hi Bear,

Below is a basic plan issued by Kaiser. They are a big health insurance company in the US with an interest in keeping their customers or their business customers' employees healthy. Since their insurance structure means that health problems are a cost to Kaiser. They run their own health clinics and hospitals. So I don't think most people would call their recommendations "some gimmicky fad".
https://share.kaiserpermanente.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/The-Plant-Based-Diet-booklet.pdf
More in depth article on the benefits and challenges with planning the diet.
http://www.thepermanentejournal.org/issues/2013/spring/5117-nutrition.html
Info on Kaiser.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Permanente

Some other plans by reputable medical doctors in this field, (not that being a medical doctor is necessarily a good qualification for understanding a plant based diet well):
https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/free-mcdougall-program/
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vsk
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/kickstart/kickstart-programs

However, if you'd prefer a book, I've found "The Cambell Plan" to be best for beginners from what I've read.
http://www.thecampbellplan.com/
https://www.bookdepository.com/Campbell-Plan-Thomas-Campbell/9781623364106
Esselstyn's book "Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease" is also worth a read.
http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/
https://www.bookdepository.com/Prevent-and-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Caldwell-B-Esselstyn/9781583333006?ref=grid-view&qid=1509852588760&sr=1-1

User avatar
V2rocketeer
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:13 pm

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby V2rocketeer » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:51 pm

Thank you Nobody, This will give us something to read and digest ;)


Bear

User avatar
baabaa
Posts: 702
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:47 am

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby baabaa » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:44 pm

So, you intend to stop or eat less meat for ethical reasons or to loose weight?
Our house is more or less vegan apart from the odd things that turns up by mistake of not reading labels in things like milk powder in cooking chocolate and yes the dog is mostly veg but gets the very odd tin of muck. We have backyard chooks who eat most of our waste and excess home grown veg. The eggs go to the neighbours.
From my side I doubt that veg or vegans see any difference in weight loss but I consider that your overall outlook on life the universe and everything may change and this can in turn help you eat better and have a more balanced consumption based on what you wish to eat and want you need to eat. I guess I have been veg for around 20 years, gave up meat as I was spending lots of time in countries which you really don’t want to eat meat in case you get crook. Coming from a farming and grazing background we never really ate that much meat anyway so it was no big one. Going vegan was a sort of test to see what would happen. Result no change so I don’t see the need to tell others what we eat or don’t eat as I can’t see it is being anything more than an option that we decided to take up.

I dunno about all the diet stuff, as we are all still the same weight so never really had to think about that stuff much, but I would just give it a go and really forget about other peoples who have stuff to sell views as the www has plenty of good simple vegan recipes to test out. Our take is that eating more plant stuff also makes life more simple as you can just walk past the masses of choice that line supermarket shelves. I also doubt it helps people live any longer or healthier as your genes still dominate all that stuff.
My call give it a good three months to slowly change from what you eat now and then just see if it works for you and then you may wish to go veg or even vegan. Really, it is not as hard as what people make out and to be fair with the costs of breeding grazing animals in Aust now, people maybe in for a very big price shock at the meat counter. Chook and pig meat maybe okay for a while but we are look like having a grain shortage this year for grain to be fed to animals and does anyone really wish to use 100% of factory farming just to keep eating meat?
We also make our own pizzas and bases; they are such a simple thing to make. Also worth noting that it is getting easier to be veg and even Aldi now sell packs of chilled veg snags and patties if you wish to do the pre-made stuff for a change.
Oh, and what you may not have considered is just how much easier it is to keep any kitchen clean when you don’t use meat. Washing up is never a chore as nothing really sticks to plates and pans like animal fats do!!!

I also tend to read blogs on the weird places people go on bikes but if you really want a needle on all things bike touring in around the Nordics check out...
http://www.eurovelo13.com/

Nobody
Posts: 8509
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:04 pm

baabaa wrote:From my side I doubt that veg or vegans see any difference in weight loss...

I can see that point of view from someone who is quite active and that activity helps keep them lean. Activity didn't make a big difference in my case, but diet did.
According to the video below, on average it matters whether you're omni, veg, or vegan.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/thousands-of-vegans-studied/


baabaa wrote:I also doubt it helps people live any longer or healthier as your genes still dominate all that stuff.

Yes, genes dominate. But diet does affect life span.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/fruits-veggies-and-longevity-how-many-minutes-per-mouthful/
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/turning-the-clock-back-14-years/

User avatar
CKinnard
Posts: 2456
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:37 pm

And my2cw. :)

If a plant based whole foods diet is going to help one lose weight 'better' than other eating styles, it will be because you increase fiber, which equals lots of fibrous carbohydrates = vegetables.
So many PBWF people just exchange animal produce for excess grains, legumes, seeds, nuts..

Further, rocketeer, wifey and you are at an age when your metabolism is slowing due to less lean tissue, being less active, thyroid slowing down, etc.

If you are overweight, it means your satiation signaling is not as efficient as it was when you were younger (in addition to choosing too many high energy dense foods).

So the long and short is ramp your vegetable intake up through the roof, ensure you are getting enough water, and be more mindful of calming yourself regularly though the day and night.

Shift work is bloody tough on your appetite and energy levels. And many eat due to fatigue, when really what's going on is shift work stress is dysregulating insulin sensitivity.

So I posit you are going to change a lot more than diet to get the weight off.

Finally, you are probably conditioned to eating too large portions. There's a chart I posted a a bit back in this thread that gives a breakdown of how much of each main food group to reach a certain Calorie intake. Most men trying to lose weight start on 1500 Cals, and adjust up or down after a few weeks depending on weight loss success/failure.

Get into it mate. It's the best decision your wife and you could make now, to get the most out of your futures on the planet!!! There will be no regrets!

Nobody
Posts: 8509
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:25 pm

CKinnard wrote:If a plant based whole foods diet is going to help one lose weight 'better' than other eating styles, it will be because you increase fiber, which equals lots of fibrous carbohydrates = vegetables.

True. Also fruit does a good job as high in nutrients, fibre and low enough in energy density.

CKinnard wrote:So many PBWF people just exchange animal produce for excess grains, legumes, seeds, nuts..

True. Glad you mentioned it as it's often overlooked.

CKinnard wrote:Finally, you are probably conditioned to eating too large portions...

At the moment. Harder to do if the calorie density gets low enough on WFPB. But still worth mentioning as it can still be done in the long term as the stomach gets used to the larger volume/weight of food.

Nobody
Posts: 8509
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:56 pm

Visit to the haematology specialist today.

Latest blood tests below. All normal for me. Ferritin (at the bottom) has increased for the first time from the previous 31 to 46 so the specialist is going to book another bleed. I'm glad I've got a specialist who likes to keep the ferritin low. :D

It might look like I've failed to keep my ferritin low. But I was experimenting (as usual) to see what was influencing it. This time I stopped taking the 12mg of zinc supplementation and stopped cycling in August to help my elbow heal after the crash. Unfortunately I changed more than one thing during that period.

Surprisingly, my specialist enquired about my diet (not the same specialist who said it makes no difference in the past). Maybe she was concerned about the sudden rise in ferritin. Anyway she thought is was a good idea that I started the zinc supplementation again and restart cycling.

All I can conclude from the last 5 months is that a higher calcium diet of around 750 -1100 mg/d (instead of previous 500mg/d) wasn't enough by itself to stop the rise in ferritin. Which is primarily what I wanted to know. Going back to my previous plan I expect to go anaemic before my next visit in 6 months. I may have to get my own testing done sooner.

Image

User avatar
CKinnard
Posts: 2456
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:23 pm

Nobody wrote:Visit to the haematology specialist today.


google
ferritin levels obese

ferritin can go up with inflammation and high bodyfat%!
i.e.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4744313/

Not saying you are fat, just that I surmise your weight incrased since last blood test.

User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 18452
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney
Contact:

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:18 pm

Feel for you Nobody, you put so much effort into getting the levels right. It will be interesting to know how you correct the issue, will it be a simple adjustment or something much more complex?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

Nobody
Posts: 8509
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:11 pm

CKinnard wrote:...Not saying you are fat, just that I surmise your weight increased since last blood test.

You're probably right. Not cycling has probably been a factor too, since it's supposed to use more iron.

mikesbytes wrote:Feel for you Nobody, you put so much effort into getting the levels right. It will be interesting to know how you correct the issue, will it be a simple adjustment or something much more complex?

Thanks. :)

When I previous had success, my diet calcium/zinc ratio was over 33 and zinc/iron was over 1. Both of those were lowered in July as I thought I was going to go anaemic. The fix should be reducing the foods with over 1g/100g of iron and supplementing zinc, which I've already started. Cycling should start again tomorrow. The fix should be simple if I can get it to work again like the first half of the year. I'm probably going to be bled in the next few weeks, which should be a big help too.

Nobody
Posts: 8509
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:52 pm

FieskpseusY wrote:I like my plant based diet passed first through cows, pigs, lambs, and chickens.

Most people do, but then most people end up with one or more diet related chronic diseases too.

FieskpseusY wrote:...plants and animals in a balanced manner...The real secret to diet is moderation.

There are those words again. The cigarette companies popularised "moderation in all things". So they should be happy that their marketing is still kicking around. The words "balanced" and "moderation" are meaningless terms in regard to diet. Since their meaning varies from person to person. There is a joke in AU about balancing a pie with a beer on the lunch tray at the pub. In other words, most people think their diet is balanced and moderate if you ask them. But for at least 97% of people in western countries, their diet is still harming them.

If you have the wrong genetics, moderation can be quite harmful.
In Cholesterol Lowering, Moderation Kills

User avatar
CKinnard
Posts: 2456
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:34 pm

Nobody wrote:
FieskpseusY wrote:I like my plant based diet passed first through cows, pigs, lambs, and chickens.

Most people do, but then most people end up with one or more diet related chronic diseases too.


Nobody, I'd put real money on this poster being a paid social media advertising crony, who is contracted to a pistachio farmer, or an American pistachio growers co-op. The crony has done a search for plant based whole foods forums, or similar....and then they do a soft sell post, such as the one above.

What's the bet their first post is their last post!?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users