Plant Based Diet Thread

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:30 pm

Looks like linseed (flax) is better than chia seeds for a number of health markers according to the latest Nutritionfacts video below. Linseed is generally cheaper than chia seeds, has more omega-3 fats and a better omega 6:3 ratio.
Chia data sheet
Linseed data sheet

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/which-are-better-chia-seeds-or-flax-seeds/

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:22 pm

Yep flax is the go to for the CHIP program too.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:04 pm

hmm that vid is gone.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:17 pm

Hmm, access to that vid was removed by "80/10/10 In London". So there was no point keeping the post either. Maybe Venus has an online marshal to police the use of her image, like "Prince" did.

To replace it I have the video below. This info from Greger has been posted before, but it's a good reminder to all that certain intakes need to be met for optimum health. It's not as simple as going low fat, whole food, plant only and expecting everything to work out perfectly.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:47 am

yep true. it helps to keep in mind many who go vegan do so not for the health benefits but to counter the negative emotions they feel regarding perceived cruelty to animals, which is why so many children and teens (esp girls) are attracted. the attrition rate in this group is very high for reasons discussed before.

further, vegans have a dilemma in whether they are going to eat meat grown by tissue culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat

another word about omega 3. there are meaningful levels in other foods - soy beans and spinach, but I don't know the comparative absorption rate, or physiological quality.
seeds however do need to be at least ground to be absorbed. I usually grind, soak overnight, then freeze....and add a portion sized block to meals.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:58 pm

I like to buy various vege in bulk, but in the past have had to be careful to minimize waste, esp with prices moving up over the last 10 years.

In the past, towards the end of the week vege went into a cooked chili or stew for freezing which reduced waste somewhat...but I often don't have time or inclination for that.

A few months ago, I was buying frozen vege for convenience, and a few weeks ago I decided to have a go at freezing my own. So I did a bit of googling to get a vibe for various methods. I've done it three times now with spinach, kale, red cabbage combined.....and broccoli, brussel sprouts, and carrot.

Results are good. I take out a few cups worth and either microwave separately or in a chili/stew.

The advantage is I don't have any wastage at all and always have quality backup vege.

My technique is as follows:
- chop vege into desired sizes and let rest for 30-60 minutes (this is to allow sulforaphane to form (in the cruciferous vege) which is a potent anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer compound. (I got the idea about resting the vege after chopping from nutrition facts)
- blanche by steaming for 1-2 minutes.
- drain and into an ice bath or freezer uncovered for 1-2 mins to stop cooking.
- drain again and bag eliminating most air, and into the freezer. authorities say vege can last at least 6 mths this way, but I am unlikely to store more than 1-2 months due to lack of space.

I appreciate some nutrients are compromised in this process, so save a % of the fresh vege to eat raw in salads as well.

mix of spinach, kale, red cabbage, broccoli, brussel sprouts
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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:28 pm

CKinnard wrote:yep true. it helps to keep in mind many who go vegan do so not for the health benefits but to counter the negative emotions they feel regarding perceived cruelty to animals, which is why so many children and teens (esp girls) are attracted. the attrition rate in this group is very high for reasons discussed before.

further, vegans have a dilemma in whether they are going to eat meat grown by tissue culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat

another word about omega 3. there are meaningful levels in other foods - soy beans and spinach, but I don't know the comparative absorption rate, or physiological quality.
seeds however do need to be at least ground to be absorbed. I usually grind, soak overnight, then freeze....and add a portion sized block to meals.
Culture growing opens up a huge can of worms. Why do I choose not to eat a particular food? If that food is created using a different mechanism, does that food continue not to be suitable to be eaten? Should my views be imposed on others, or does it only apply to myself? Should I keep my views to myself or adverstise my views to others?

To use a plant based scenario, should I decide to not consume palm oil because they are cutting down forests to plant palm trees, does that mean I should also apply the same principal to food products grown in my own country, as after all they cut down the forests in my country 200 years ago. Its a different scenario but ethical decisions still have to be made and justified
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:32 pm

CKinnard wrote:A few months ago, I was buying frozen vege for convenience, and a few weeks ago I decided to have a go at freezing my own. So I did a bit of googling to get a vibe for various methods. I've done it three times now with spinach, kale, red cabbage combined.....and broccoli, brussel sprouts, and carrot...

Thanks for posting.
I'm fortunate enough to be able to go to the shops ever 2 days and so can match my purchases to usage pretty closely. I also use a reasonable amount of frozen fruit and veg, so I get hardly any spoilage losses so far. But something to keep in mind if the situation changes.

__________________________________________________________________


I saw a new plant based documentary the other day called "What The Health" by the same people as Cowspiracy. I didn't learnt much, but I suspect I'm not the target audience. It should be a good tool for opening eyes to the con job being done by food industries and big pharma. Their main mechanism being the sponsorship of health promoting organisations and the USDA. As it has been said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” - Upton Sinclair.

So I've downloaded the documentary onto a memory stick in the hope it can change the mind of some family members, or others I know.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:33 am

Nobody wrote:I saw a new plant based documentary the other day called "What The Health" by the same people as Cowspiracy. I didn't learnt much, but I suspect I'm not the target audience. It should be a good tool for opening eyes to the con job being done by food industries and big pharma. Their main mechanism being the sponsorship of health promoting organisations and the USDA. As it has been said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” - Upton Sinclair.


Modern economies are interesting things.
If we consider that 300 years ago, most were essentially self sufficient at a village level.
Today's advanced economy cannot function unless people and small communities are rendered self insufficient.

Thanks for the heads up on the documentary. Just watched the first 20 minutes in the car. Not really covering any new ground, but certainly exposing the bias of respective health authorities for diabetes, cancer, heart disease. David Goldman from True North told me last year there's another significant documentary coming out dealing with the advantages of PBWF for athletic performance, which he features in significantly.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:22 am

CKinnard wrote:Today's advanced economy cannot function unless people and small communities are rendered self insufficient.

Cannot function, or they choose (or have been manipulated by those with vested financial interests) to function that way?

As I see it; the food industries exploit peoples' lack of knowledge and/or self control, which they foster through deception. In the process they cause various chronic diseases. Those diseases are then exploited for profit by the medical and pharma industries at various levels. This also involves deception if the long term cure is known, but that information is withheld. Meanwhile governments are being manipulated by these powerful and influential industries. The "it's just business" excuse doesn't change the reality that what they are doing is immoral.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:13 pm

There's a term that's used to describe a business practice that invokes costs to someone else. In the case of the food industry we can see that cost in medical expenses.
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby uart » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:03 pm

Moved to diet thread :)
Last edited by uart on Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:30 am

uart wrote:Worlds oldest living person (117 y.o.) ate three eggs per day. :mrgreen:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-16/w ... 17/8446290
We are in the wrong thread with this one, we should be over in this one - the diet thread;

http://bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=83496

It's an interesting topic, please post over there and we can discuss
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:50 pm

Nobody wrote:
CKinnard wrote:Today's advanced economy cannot function unless people and small communities are rendered self insufficient.

Cannot function, or they choose (or have been manipulated by those with vested financial interests) to function that way?

As I see it; the food industries exploit peoples' lack of knowledge and/or self control, which they foster through deception. In the process they cause various chronic diseases. Those diseases are then exploited for profit by the medical and pharma industries at various levels. This also involves deception if the long term cure is known, but that information is withheld. Meanwhile governments are being manipulated by these powerful and influential industries. The "it's just business" excuse doesn't change the reality that what they are doing is immoral.



I can excuse the self interest of business to a degree.
I cannot excuse representatives of the people for not upholding the self interest of the people.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:57 pm

CKinnard wrote:I cannot excuse representatives of the people for not upholding the self interest of the people.

As you know, pandering to the big end of town at the expense of the general population sadly appears to be commonplace with governments. It's going to take decades to reform, if any.

_______________________________________

I think the below video is interesting as he finally logs his macros. It works out they are similar to the US average SAD macros. :o Yet he still appears to be a healthy weight. His example shows that certain people can do this, although he is relatively young and exercises daily. I doubt I could get away with it and I know of others who can't, like Chef AJ. I suppose it could be worth a try if one's weight/waist was monitored closely and you are not worried about aerobic performance. Since I've found that higher fat affects mine and DR once said he found it loaded him down. Also I calculated his omega 6:3 ratio as 7.5, so as he said it needs to be adjusted.


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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue May 16, 2017 10:11 pm


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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:32 pm

Iodine is often a question that comes up on plant only diets. From the video below, it appears that worrying about a deficiency might be more dangerous that not.


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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:38 pm

Seaweed and iodised salt would seem to cover it. Interesting to note that the amount in vegetables varies depending on the amount of iodine in the ground the vegetable is grown in, which means that there is probably quite some variation in the quantities quoted for the same vegetable.

http://www.nutritionaustralia.org/national/resource/iodine-facts
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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:08 am


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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:30 pm

The usual 6 monthly blood test results in reference to my genetic disease of haemochromatosis (iron loading). Please note that they doubled up on the recent results, so there are two columns of 7/6/2017 for haematology and biochemistry.

Image

I think they made a mistake with the ferritin measurement. If you look at the pattern of ferritin and saturation, you can see that ferritin should be higher than 90 with a saturation of 48. Anyway the specialist said no to the bleeding today because of the low ferritin. Instead the nurse took a blood sample for another blood test to see if the previous test result was a mistake. I should know in 2 weeks when I visit the specialist.

On the previous subject of low protein, it appears that even though I upped the beans and peas (which are higher in both protein and iron) for the last 6 months, my protein is still on the low side.

ALT (a liver marker) is back down to previous low levels, which suggests the reading 6 months ago may have been a mistake, or a one-off.

For those that are unfamiliar with plant_only_diet blood tests, low urea is normal.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:54 pm

@nobody, when was your haemochromatosis diagnosed? I've never had any issues with iron, low haematocrit, etc while eating omni, but my last blood test showed markers suggestion haemochromatosis. between the last test ~may and the previous test ~jan i hadn't lost weight but my protein and fat intakes were both very low, like ~50-75g per day while exercising ~10hrs a week.

Do you have any data from periods when you were eating more protein, or differently when those haemochromatosis markers disappeared?

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby ball bearing » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:21 pm


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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:39 pm

march83 wrote:@nobody, when was your haemochromatosis diagnosed? I had regular blood test after about a year and my ferritin was I've never had any issues with iron, low haematocrit, etc while eating omni, but my last blood test showed markers suggestion haemochromatosis.

September 2014 which was about 11 months after I started eating vegan. It was confirmed with a genetic test.

I had many of the symptoms of haemochromatosis years before I went vegan. I just didn't realize it because I had Meniere's Disease diagnosed in late 2007 and attributed the symptoms to that. Haemochromatosis doesn't usually surface until your late 30s onward, after your liver is full of iron and being damaged. If you're getting markers then request a genetic (blood) test. The results should look something like this if you're positive.
Image

march83 wrote:...between the last test ~may and the previous test ~jan i hadn't lost weight but my protein and fat intakes were both very low, like ~50-75g per day while exercising ~10hrs a week.

Yeah 50 - 75g of protein is likely going to be too little for a vegan of your size. IME plant protein has lower absorption. I now aim for 1.1g/kg or more and I'm still getting low blood readings. Having said that it appears I don't absorb a lot of nutrients very well.

march83 wrote:Do you have any data from periods when you were eating more protein, or differently when those haemochromatosis markers disappeared?

No. You usually have to request iron studies, like with many blood tests. AFAIK it's not something a GP normally requests.

IMO everyone should be screened with a large number of blood tests at least once in their early adult life to prevent the preventable. One shouldn't have to find out at 40+ yo that their liver is already damaged or they have advanced atherosclerosis for example. The "health care" system isn't really health care, it's sick care. True health care is an individual's responsibility in AU. Yet most think it's the medical industry's responsibility. I suppose that's why we have so many older, chronically sick people in this country.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:42 am

ball bearing wrote:https://youtu.be/oNm5sE9GAFc

Thanks for posting BB. I thought it was quite a telling video on the link between diet and resultant toxicity.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:08 am

Since we are on topic of iron. Few nights ago news article about Whiteman Park water taps with lead levels 18 times the norm. Also iron can come from such sources as green leafy veg and cookware. I am curious to what my lead will be next time I get checked. Spinach & cast iron
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