Plant Based Diet Thread

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CKinnard
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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:59 pm

Nobody wrote:I know they are trying to help, but I think GPs are playing a dangerous game by giving dietary advice that isn't backed by the body of science.


I learned a long time ago that many doctors are very human, and don't realize it.

I've got two physios with me currently for Masters coursework reasons. One has asked me several times if I think Magnesium supplements would help this condition or that. I asked her why she was asking me and she said another private physio recommended it to about 80% of his patients. I set her a task to complete in 48 hours - research it and give me 6 bullet points on reasons to recommend it, and at least a dozen contraindications and precautions not to. She did a pretty good job but left out how regular supplements can bind or interfere with the efficacy of various medications. Anyway, it was a good segway to introduce her to the safer supplementation world of WFPB diet!

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:48 am

CKinnard wrote:I learned a long time ago that many doctors are very human, and don't realize it.

If only the general population knew that instead of placing them on pedestals. Which perpetuates the problem. The reply "I will listen to my doctor before I listen to you" doesn't help people get better. But most of that is an addictive response and a fear of change. However comments like that don't inspire me to try to help people IRL.

CKinnard wrote:I've got two physios with me currently for Masters coursework reasons. One has asked me several times if I think Magnesium supplements would help this condition or that...She did a pretty good job but left out how regular supplements can bind or interfere with the efficacy of various medications. Anyway, it was a good segway to introduce her to the safer supplementation world of WFPB diet!

A well thought out move to get someone's attention.

I assume she therefore got the negative point about supplements interfering with the absorption of other vitamins/minerals. As someone who doesn't take medications, this point concerns me the most. "Upsetting the apple cart" so to speak. A colleague at work said to me that the zinc supplementation she was taking made her feel sick. Although I take a half dose at about 12mg (or sometimes less) I noticed the same thing. When I think about how much food I eat in a day, I still find it amazing that such a small pill can induce such a reaction. Mine is Zinc Picolinate. I just bought Zinc Citrate, so I should try that. But I'm expecting the same reaction. Both are vegan. To me it highlights the importance of balance and how dangerous playing with supplements may be in the long term. I'm unlikely to take more supplements unless there is a pressing need. I heard that long ago one would have to get a prescription to get supplements.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:19 am

A bit of a self indulgent rant follows! :)

Regarding doctors, one of my earlier insights into doctor human-ness (no 'e'):

4 mths post graduation I am working in a Qld coastal public hospital in the graduate position.
One morning after rounds, a doctor tells me about an elderly inpatient - bacterial pneumonia, bad O2 sats, signs of right heart failure.....then the doc adds this "we don't think he's going to make it so we're not changing his A'bs...but if you want to do your thing, go ahead."

So the docs thought he was going to die and he wasn't worth giving next level A'bs to.
I knew this gentlemen as he had been in outpatients with back pain to see me. Salt of the earth, very productive life, still living in their home of 50+ years with his independent wife.

I went in and asked him if he wanted to live, having no idea of all the reasons the docs had dismissed their proactive care. If he'd nodded his head any harder he'd have got a whiplash injury. I then asked if he would fight with me to get this dirty bug out that didn't belong in him. And more nodding and eyes wired wide open.

To cut to the chase, within 36 hours his O2 sats were normal, as was his HR, BP, and Temp. He was resting better. Over the previous 2 days, I did a lot of stuff to get his lungs saturated to loosen the thick purulent mucus blocking his airways and alveoli. Hyper-hydration with electrolytes, percussion and vibes, nasopharygneal suction, Chapman's sympathetic reflexes, out of bed for diaphragmatic and deeper breathing, thoracic spine stretches to further stimulate the sympathetics - fire in the belly HTFU and fight stuff.

I saw him 4 times a day last at 9pm (I was staying in staff quarters 100 meters away). I pushed him til he was exhausted....and he would sleep. He was in a war and needed to FIGHT to win. Might sound melodramatic, but I've seen enough disease to realize to beat a disease, one has to engage all of their inner reserves, and throw off what seeks to oppress and kill.

The guy went home 4 days after he was left to asphyxiate in bacterial mucus by the docs.
I've thought a lot about that experience. Many doctors' view on life and death is colored by the army of beaten patients they see who don't want to fight...who are worn out and ready to exit.... BUT also these doctors have often never had to fight themselves against truly overwhelming odds, nor have they had to motivate others to reach deep inside and awake and use that fiery determination.

This is one profound difference between doctors of today and 50 years ago. Today it is all this intellectual effort into getting the drug mix and dose right.....but there's little understanding of an individual's inner fire and its healing potency....there's also little respect or understanding of fundamental physiological principles and how to engage them.

Now the docs might be right that to do what I did for that patient is a costly service, and public health cannot afford to provide it for most. But if that is the case, then I think the public need to know exactly what their tax dollar is paying for in public health service.....and the scope of intervention it isn't.

And the same applies to the service offered by GPs - is the GP offering me all that is known by health care?
Too often, the answer is no....for he/she does not know how to utilize the body's and mind's own potential to heal or restore homeostasis.
What is happening today is there's too much fragmentation of health care skill and knowledge. So GPs are unlikely to be aware of all critical interventions at all times. There's just too much for them to stay on top of.
However, the worst thing they could do is give someone piecemeal advice about a field they have insignficant training in.

And this is the problem with splitting health care into different specialties who that rarely talk....
This doesn't impart knowledge of how all the different systems work together as a whole, more powerful than the sum of its parts!

In saying all that, if you get a GP who does 'get it', then they are the exception, and have my deepest respect.

As for supplements, there's not a lot of respect for physiology in how they are meted out.
I once asked a doctor whether it was more physiologically agreeable to split a medication into quarters and spread the intake across the day....rather than having a large bolus once a day. The way he looked at me he deliberately wanted to impart that he thought I was a wnkr asking a stupid question. I could have challenged him on the half life of the med, and the endogenous production of any substance the body produces (none are delivered as once a day boluses), and the effect of a large bolus on feedback signaling to higher regulatory centers.....but I realized it would be lost on a guy who had allocated me 10 minutes and rote advice.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:43 pm

A while back Nobody mentioned that the % of the population that was vegan was really low, might of been 0.5% and I noted that the % where I live is a lot higher than that.

Well I noticed today while driving a black board outside a pub stating in large words "Vegan Menu".
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:59 pm

mikesbytes wrote:A while back Nobody mentioned that the % of the population that was vegan was really low, might of been 0.5% and I noted that the % where I live is a lot higher than that.

Well I noticed today while driving a black board outside a pub stating in large words "Vegan Menu".


More and more young girls I meet these days are riding the virtuous train and doing vegan, if not 100%, a few days a week.
It takes them about 2 years to realize cutting out meat doesn't make the weight come off.
There's got to be an angle here for marketing WFPB as THE diet for slimmer bods, healthier hair, stronger nails, brighter eyes, radiant skin, perkier girl bits.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:49 am

mikesbytes wrote:A while back Nobody mentioned that the % of the population that was vegan was really low, might of been 0.5% and I noted that the % where I live is a lot higher than that.

Vegetarianism or almost is about 10% in AU.
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/vegetarianisms-slow-but-steady-rise-in-australia-201608151105
Last I heard I though veganism was about 3% in AU, but it could be higher now and I could be wrong. I'd have to dig for a reference. Eating WFPB or WFPO SOS free are different levels again and so they should be < 1%.

Being at the extreme end, I won't eat at restaurants. Not even once a year anymore. Yes it sounds extreme, but I make sure I stay in control of my diet and don't get tempted away from it. Unlike my brother-in-law who is now battling to get the weight back down after going from vegan to SAD for about a year. As a beat policeman on a 24 hour roster, that's going to be harder than for the average person. I'm also a 24 hour shift worker, although my shifts aren't as difficult as his.
Last edited by Nobody on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:06 am

3% is much better than the figure that was on my head.

20% in Newtown is probably not too far off the truth. Large student population, condensation of minority groups such as cyclists etc. BTW the pub was in Enmore is right next to Newtown.

0.5% in the country... suppose it depends where
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:49 am

Nobody wrote:Being at the extreme end, I won't eat at restaurants. Not even once a year anymore. Yes it sounds extreme, but I make sure I stay in control of my diet and don't get tempted away from it. Unlike my brother-in-law who is now battling to get the weight back down after going from vegan to SAD for about a year. As a beat policeman on a 24 hour roster, that's going to be harder than for the average person. I'm also a 24 hour shift worker, although my shifts aren't as difficult as his.


My father was of Scottish heritage, a bank manager, and a Free Mason. get the picture? :)
He retired aged 50 and self funded.

Until he was about 40, he was scornful of restaurants....and put any spare money he had into property of which he was in the top 5 guys in the LGA for ownership. Despite all that he lived a simple and unassuming life hanging with his mates at the local Lawn Bowls club, which he founded.

Nothing beats inflation tax better than the asset banks value most as security against loans.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:22 am

CKinnard wrote:More and more young girls I meet these days are riding the virtuous train and doing vegan, if not 100%, a few days a week.

YouTube is probably the medium they are getting the message through. When you start looking, there seems to be enough young women out there self promoting while using the vegan diet as a point of difference.

CKinnard wrote:It takes them about 2 years to realize cutting out meat doesn't make the weight come off.

Yes. Although meat is calorie dense, spikes insulin and is 20% fat or more by calories, it isn't the whole picture. If one isn't going to count calories, then addressing the grams of fat per day and the average calorie density of the whole diet is going to go a long way to reducing weight. Nil liquid calories would also help.
An acquaintance's daughter is vegan at about 16yo. Although a light build, she appears over her ideal weight for her build. From what I've seen she doesn't appear to regulate her intake macros etc. Sedentary too.

CKinnard wrote:There's got to be an angle here for marketing WFPB as THE diet for slimmer bods, healthier hair, stronger nails, brighter eyes, radiant skin, perkier girl bits.

The idea is easy to sell. But since there is no money to be made, who is going to invest in the marketing? Governments can't be convinced against the lobby groups from the food industries. Although they are going to be the main financial beneficiaries of healthier, more productive people in the future.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:37 am

A recent survey by research firm GlobalData reports that 6% of US consumers now claim to be vegan, up from just 1% in 2014 and 44% of Germans follow a low-meat diet, up from 26% in 2014.


http://www.veganaustralia.org.au/massive_rise_in_veganism_reported

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:00 pm

A Plant-Based Dietary Intervention Improves Beta-Cell Function and Insulin Resistance in Overweight Adults: A 16-Week Randomized Clinical Trial
http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/10/2/189/htm


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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:54 pm

CKinnard wrote:Now the docs might be right that to do what I did for that patient is a costly service, and public health cannot afford to provide it for most. But if that is the case, then I think the public need to know exactly what their tax dollar is paying for in public health service.....and the scope of intervention it isn't.

Which comes down to what value does one place on a human life? It appears from that case, that the answer for many doctors is, not much. All the more reason to manage one's own health over the long term to try to avoid facing such unresponsive care.

CKinnard wrote:And the same applies to the service offered by GPs...However, the worst thing they could do is give someone piecemeal advice about a field they have insignficant training in.

Especially when it's wrong and they're repeating the mistake thousands of times in their career, to patients who take everything they say as the absolute truth. Meanwhile I have people value what I say on the subject lower than what they see on TV or read in the papers. Yet I have the results to prove I know what I'm talking about. :roll:

CKinnard wrote:As for supplements, there's not a lot of respect for physiology in how they are meted out.
I once asked a doctor whether it was more physiologically agreeable to split a medication into quarters and spread the intake across the day....rather than having a large bolus once a day.

Thanks for the advice about splitting the dose. I cut the dose to about 6 mg, or half what I usually take and it appeared to be absorbed without incident.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:22 pm

Nobody wrote:
A recent survey by research firm GlobalData reports that 6% of US consumers now claim to be vegan, up from just 1% in 2014 and 44% of Germans follow a low-meat diet, up from 26% in 2014.


http://www.veganaustralia.org.au/massive_rise_in_veganism_reported


Yes I am surprised at the greater level of health awareness in Germany, at least among the older gens.
My better half's parents are in their mid 80s, but he still does downhill skiing, and they live the active retiree life of healthy 60 somethings. Still maintain their quarter acre block and grow most of their own vege.
I rarely meet anyone in Australia as healthy and independent and able bodied.

The parents are not so much vegan though, but have never let go of the traditional German rural practise of valuing animal produce and not having too much of it.....and slamming the vege.

Nevertheless, nationally Germany is as fat as us from memory.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:30 pm

Nil liquid calories would also help

And that thought came across my mind when looking at the vegan sign in front of the pub. However just because one is a long way from perfect in one aspect doesn't prevent one from improving in another aspect. And I'm certainly a way off being perfect nutrition wise.

In regards to the calories of the meat vs vegan, I'm seeing more of a meat vs baked products but CK can clarify if I'm understanding
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:27 pm

Health benefits of swapping animal proteins for plant proteins
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171220091720.htm
http://jaha.ahajournals.org/content/6/12/e006659
This one showed you get what you pay for to a large extent. For example, the changes in the study only gave an average non-HDL-C change of 0.18 mmol/L. At the other extreme, my non-HDL-C has changed 2.9 mmol/L so far.

Can Muesli help against arthritis?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180112132755.htm
'We were able to show that a bacteria-friendly diet has an anti-inflammatory effect, as well as a positive effect on bone density' explains Dr. Mario Zaiss, who is leading the team behind the study.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:27 am

Replying to CK from this Loser Thread post
CKinnard wrote:Nevertheless don't give up hope! Fat comes off according to "first on, last off"...


I'll preface this by I'm not having a go at you. After reading it, I know how it sounds, but that isn't the case. :)

I've chosen this weight and amount of visceral fat so far. It comes back to the question of, what is a healthy diet? What is the correct amount of protein and fat for optimal health? I've tried being too thin and it didn't work for me. Are nuts good for you? How much is ideal? How much protein does one need? What amount is ideal? How long is a piece of string? For protien, 0.8 g/kg was clearly too little for me, so now I'm getting about 1.1 g/kg of protein and all the ALA and LA the minimum specs say I need each day. If I back off the nuts, I'll probably be scraping the borderline of deficiency for LA again. But then that gets back to, is there really a solid minimum for LA? Does it matter? I know from my TC dropping from 3.7 to 3.4 (over more than 2 years) that this could be due to the extra almonds (now 20g/d) but I don't get my TC measured often enough to know for sure. Exercise doesn't make a lot of difference to my weight as my body tends to adjust appetite for it. So I only really have the macro composition to effectively play with how much fat I carry. I don't want to lower the amount of ALA I take in until I get an omega-3 index test. Hopefully in the next 2 months. But then a higher ALA intake is supposed to be healthy too because it's supposed to lower inflammation caused by an imbalance of ALA to LA, or so we're told. I'd argue there are too many confounding variables and too many priorities to know what is truly healthy for the long term. I'll probably halve my almond intake starting today and see how that goes. From what I've seen, there doesn't appear to be many overly skinny people in the blue zones.

As to other lifestyle variables like sleep and stress. They are fairly fixed variables as I can't easily change my type of work or family life. I'm more along for the ride in service to them at the moment, than in control. That may change later this year. I've already call this year the year of change. I'll see what happens toward the end.
Last edited by Nobody on Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:29 am

I was going over my last blood tests and noticed two items that I think require comment. The results can be found in this post.

If you look at my "Total Protein" results, both 65 and 67 have stars to indicate out of range (too low), but the range on the right hand side says "(64-83)" so they should make up their mind what the correct range is.

Total cholesterol has stars to indicate too low, but according to the Framingham study, no one gets CHD under 150 mg/dL or 3.9 mmol/L. So the top of the range should be 3.9, not as it is currently "(3.9-5.5)". I'd like to know their reasoning on how they formulate some of these ranges. I'll add that my GP said my cholesterol was very good.
Image
150 = 3.9
200 = 5.2
250 = 6.5
300 = 7.8

While I'm writing about this I'll mention "Urea" again, since mine is always starred as low. This is normal for eaters of plant based diets due to the lower acidity of the breakdown byproducts of plants versus animal products.

While looking up Framingham images I stumbled on this Framingham risk score calculator. While playing with it I noticed that the minimum TC was 2.6 mmol/L, below that it says the entry is "Too low...". Even below 3.9 it says, "Very low; double-check". Yet for most people eating plant based, below 3.9 would be the norm.
https://www.mdcalc.com/framingham-coronary-heart-disease-risk-score
https://www.framinghamheartstudy.org/risk-functions/index.php

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:10 pm

Nobody wrote:I'll preface this by I'm not having a go at you. After reading it, I know how it sounds, but that isn't the case. :)

I've chosen this weight and amount of visceral fat so far. It comes back to the question of, what is a healthy diet? What is the correct amount of protein and fat for optimal health? I've tried being too thin and it didn't work for me. Are nuts good for you? How much is ideal? How much protein does one need? .


Just quickly between patients, I thought you were intent on losing another ?inch off your waist, and finding it difficult.
Getting the last inches off the waist is notriously difficult for many due to the factors I brought up.
Keep in mind visceral fat contributes significantly to insulin resistance, so a slim waist at any age is a worthy goal.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:34 pm

CKinnard wrote:Just quickly between patients, I thought you were intent on losing another ?inch off your waist, and finding it difficult.
Getting the last inches off the waist is notriously difficult for many due to the factors I brought up.

OK, thanks for your efforts. It may benefit others.

CKinnard wrote:Keep in mind visceral fat contributes significantly to insulin resistance, so a slim waist at any age is a worthy goal.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind and start working toward a slimmer waist today. However my fasting glucose is 4.3, which from what I understand is a pretty good number for a 50 yo guy who isn't low carb and doesn't have a WHtR of < 0.43 (currently 0.445). Considering that the minimum fasting is considered to be 3.9 mmol/L. So in theory, it should only improve or I'm under the threshold for it to matter. The next test should indicate which it is.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Sully » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:05 pm

As someone who is working towards being a vegan as my supplies run out I'd just like to say thanks for contributing to this thread. I'm learning a lot.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:21 pm

Nobody wrote:Thanks. I'll keep that in mind and start working toward a slimmer waist today. However my fasting glucose is 4.3, which from what I understand is a pretty good number for a 50 yo guy who isn't low carb and doesn't have a WHtR of < 0.43 (currently 0.445). Considering that the minimum fasting is considered to be 3.9 mmol/L. So in theory, it should only improve or I'm under the threshold for it to matter. The next test should indicate which it is.


This may benefit others too.
Some researchers believe fasting glucose isn't as important as post prandial glucose, based on the fact most of us spend more time in the latter state.
And then there's those who believe glucose levels mean nothing without considering the amount of insulin required to achieve that level; similar to T3/4 levels without consideration of TSH.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:41 pm

Sully wrote:As someone who is working towards being a vegan as my supplies run out I'd just like to say thanks for contributing to this thread. I'm learning a lot.

I'll be presumptuous and speak for the others in saying you're welcome :)

I started this thread in part to help people like yourself. That is why I don't just post up stuff I find interesting or educational, but I try to lay bare my problems honestly with my diet here. I do this not to discourage others, but to help others avoid the same mistakes I make. Most people likely have had an easier time changing to this diet than I, but my problems have been an opportunity to show others what can go wrong. As strange as it sounds, hopefully my omega-3 index test result is poor so I can work out what works in dealing with that problem too. At least I can't be accused of ignoring the more controversial issues with a plant based/only diet.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:41 pm

Sully wrote:As someone who is working towards being a vegan as my supplies run out I'd just like to say thanks for contributing to this thread. I'm learning a lot.

I'll be presumptuous and speak for the others in saying you're welcome :)

I started this thread in part to help people like yourself. That is why I don't just post up stuff I find interesting or educational, but I try to lay bare my problems honestly with my diet here. I do this not to discourage others, but to help others avoid the same mistakes I make. Most people likely have had an easier time changing to this diet than I, but my problems have been an opportunity to show others what can go wrong. There is a good chance that my omega-3 index test result likely to be be below 4.4. If this is the case, then I can work out what works in dealing with that problem too. At least I can't be accused of ignoring the more controversial issues associated with a plant based diet.
Last edited by Nobody on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:32 am

Nothing overly enlightening in this video for regulars. But it does highlight that a plant only diet is one of the best cancer management tools to limit ongoing cancer growth.
However in the video it says that dairy causes cancer to grow due to the various hormones. Although IGF-1 has been linked to all stages of cancer growth, a study below shows that there was no correlation with dairy and cancer (growth may be different). I just thought it was worth mentioning as I don't want to mislead if I know of evidence to the contrary.
Chart:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... figure/F1/
From:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5048552/


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Re: Plant Based Diet Thread

Postby Tequestra » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:22 am

Nobody wrote:I'll be presumptuous and speak for the others in saying you're welcome :)

Sully wrote for me as well. I am impressed by the high standard of information herein. CKinnard's 'self-indulgent rant' was quite amazing to me in the early morning, for when I went to bed last night I still believed that I was the only soul in the Western World who has lost his faith in its medical industry. Now I have a new friend at last! ;-)

I found myself here this morning before breakfast because I have been questioning the level of protein in my very standardised diet. The level of jargon here is over my head though. I have been very much a DIY vegetarian since beginning my trials and errors on September 26th, 2015, and my total research on the subject has amounted to approximately nil.

The reason for the major diet change from the lover of dead animal flesh, which I have always been, to the animal-free (w/eggs & cheese) diet that I have adopted was something that Pope Francis said on tv late on the previous night of 25/09/2015 in a speech broadcast from New York City, and I have never much indulged in Catholicism but when I went to bed late that Friday night, and the sharp outer edges of my dental structure continued to chew into the insides of my cheeks, so that I could barely tell the difference between the toothache and the torn cheek flesh pain, something made me understand what it must feel like to be eaten alive, and despite all the wonderful, 'humane' methods we have invented to painlessly murder a cow, I still reckoned that night that the overall practice of eating other mammals and birds, (although shark seems fair because they eat us for lunch), is somehow morally wrong, and if you ever experience your very own teeth munching on your very own cheek flesh, then you might question the moral sense of eating something made of the same substance as you are made of. It hurts.

I mentioned this reason in order to segue from the super-decimated dental arrangement onto the preference for soft foods, leaving nuts out of the ingredients unless they are boiled for a very long time until they are as soft as beans. Cashews can be boiled soft in 30 minutes, but peanuts cannot.

How do I know that I am getting enough protein from a vegetarian diet (w/eggs & cheese) including beans and no nuts? I don't. I guess it based on the time it takes for cuts or sores to heal on this 50 year-old body, try to keep the breakfasts exactly the same every morning and cross my fingers.

I have read or heard somewhere in the past that protein can last three(3) days in the body, but maybe I am confusing this with having been told that it takes a cow steak three(3) days to digest, which is not necessarily the same thing.

I read here that protein is not stored in the body, so I hope that one egg plus 150-200g of butter/cannellini beans is sufficient daily protein intake. I do not have the equipment at home to conduct reliable blood tests, so I am seemingly limited to observing any negative outcomes (osteoporosis?) in the aftermath, otherwise if things are plodding along reasonably adequately for the past 2.5 years on the same diet, then that tells me that I am getting enough protein.

I am still occasionally concerned about that aspect of this new diet, so reading the posts here looks like a bit of a bonus on top of an excellent cycling forum. I have been afraid of posting material not somehow linked to cycling, but I guess without a cyclist there can be no cycling and without food there will eventually be no cyclists. It is good that this subject of food and diet is accepted here, and especially the plant-based diet which I am currently lazily, gradually experimenting with.

Thank You for opening this thread two years ago, and for the other 998 posts which will likely keep me busy reading all afternoon. I shall ask more questions about terminology after I have read the entire thread to try and put the lingual lego block in order in my head.

Update, 09:30 GMT: Did I write 'all afternoon' earlier? I'm only halfway through p.3 so far. Fantastic information and videos!
Viva le Tour Electrique' !!!

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