BNA Losers Club 2017

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Nobody
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Nobody » Fri May 26, 2017 6:05 pm

Patt0 wrote:May 26
84kg
83cm waist
WtHtr= 0.45
Congratulations. 0.45 is doing well.

There's no data as to what a narrowed down ideal WHtR is, AFAIK. Unlike BMI which I've seen evidence to suggest about 20 - 24 being ideal for (white) males (which I posted earlier in this thread here). I only know for me a WHtR < 0.42 is too thin and 0.44 (which I'm now) is probably heavier than I prefer. Looks like it won't be long before you may need to figure out what is too thin for you.

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CKinnard
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby CKinnard » Fri May 26, 2017 7:52 pm

Nobody wrote:
Patt0 wrote:May 26
84kg
83cm waist
WtHtr= 0.45
Congratulations. 0.45 is doing well.

There's no data as to what a narrowed down ideal WHtR is, AFAIK. Unlike BMI which I've seen evidence to suggest about 20 - 24 being ideal for (white) males (which I posted earlier in this thread here). I only know for me a WHtR < 0.42 is too thin and 0.44 (which I'm now) is probably heavier than I prefer. Looks like it won't be long before you may need to figure out what is too thin for you.


Nobody, if you need any more convincing that BMI and WHR are both bogus, and one should just rely on measures of subcutaneous and visceral fat, then I present to you my 6ft9in good friend.....who weighs 70kg. by all of these measures, he could not possibly be healthy....but....he is. will let you work out his BMI. He wears 30 inch trousers.

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Nobody » Sat May 27, 2017 9:04 am

CKinnard wrote:Nobody, if you need any more convincing that BMI and WHR are both bogus, and one should just rely on measures of subcutaneous and visceral fat,...

Yes BMI is misleading, since (as you know) it was designed as a general population measure and not as an individual's measurement. Unless one conforms to a reasonable average in makeup and body shape for a 20th century person, then it's unlikely to work. WHtR is better as it can be more universally applied and has been shown to be a better predictor of morbidity than BMI. But obviously it helps to be fairly normal in shape and structure for WHtR to be meaningful also. Since most people aren't going to get regular dual X-ray scans (at least I hope not) or hydrostatic weighing, the scales and tape measure will probably still suffice for most as an indicator.

CKinnard wrote:...then I present to you my 6ft9in good friend.....who weighs 70kg. by all of these measures, he could not possibly be healthy....but....he is. will let you work out his BMI. He wears 30 inch trousers.

At my lightest (under BMI 20) and 5'8", I doubt I could easily fit into 30" trousers and I'm between a light and medium build. Tall bodybuilders with a heavy build are likely to have a similar problem with BMI in the opposite direction. By most other measurement, they are going to be considered healthy too.

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CKinnard
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby CKinnard » Sun May 28, 2017 3:31 pm

My mate got a lot of medical attention when younger. He was presumed to have Marfan's Syndrome by many staff at the local hospital, but the best specialist (in my opinion) didn't think so....and neither do I.

I think my mate epitomizes that medical conditions are not either/or things. Deviation from 'average' is a sliding scale thing. My mate is physically much more active than most, does not have most Marfan's markers, and is an electronics genius a fact backed by several top management roles in that industry.

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Patt0 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:18 am

June 02
WtHtr = 0.45
Weight=83kg
Waist= 83cm

Nobody wrote:Congratulations. 0.45 is doing well.


Thanks.
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tcdev
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby tcdev » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:17 pm

May check-in!

Started this journey mid-2014 at 114.5kg.

As of 2017:
12/2016: Weight = 98kg, WtHR=0.59, BMI=30.93
01/2017: Weight = 98.0kg, WtHR=0.585, BMI=30.93
02/2107: Weight = 96.5kg, WtHR=0.57, BMI=30.45
03/2017: Weight = 94.9kg, WtHR=0.57, BMI=29.95
04/2017: Weight = 93.4kg, WtHR=0.56, BMI=29.48

June 1st:
Weight = 94.7kg (+1.3kg)
WtHR = 40.0*2.54/178 = 0.57 (take care/consider action)
BMI = 94.7/(1.78^2) = 29.89 (overweight)

Despite increasing my km (including workouts on the trainer) this month (and increased my FTP) - or perhaps because I have - I've put on weight. I've noticed now I'm getting hungry between meals and snacking, and also larger meal portions. I have no excuse; complacency, plain and simple. My 90kg goal by mid-year is now out of the question.

I know what I need to do, and have now seen the results of not doing it, for the first time in 12 months. Pretty disappointing but I have to give myself a kick in the butt and see if I can salvage anything towards my goal this month. I applaud those who are continuing to get results month after month, year after year!
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Nobody
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Nobody » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:10 pm

tcdev wrote:...I applaud those who are continuing to get results month after month, year after year!


Couple of thoughts come to mind when I read your post. My first thought was you make it sound like hard work and deprivation. It's not so much if you just jump in quickly and go "mental" (as some would call it, not me) with structural dietary change. I did and lost most of my 17 kg in about 8 weeks. Or even progressively keep cutting/substituting foods until your diet is unrecognizable after some months. I get the impression that many are just cutting the junk food, upping the exercise and expecting everything to work out. It will for a while, but it appears to be an ongoing battle for them, rather than a full lifestyle change. It's like wading ever so slowly into a cold swimming pool. Easier to jump in IMO.

The second thought was if you change your diet effectively, you can't keep losing "month after month, year after year". You'd fade away. This is what happened to me last year when I ran into a protein deficiency and other symptoms which suggested I was getting too thin.

Like you (and many) I seem to struggle to maintain a set weight (that isn't significantly overweight). So most of the time I'm either gaining or losing. Which may be a sign that I need to learn more. Still gaining at the moment. I'm hoping I can just get my weight to level off, but unlikely from previous experience.

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby tcdev » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:58 pm

Nobody wrote:Couple of thoughts come to mind when I read your post. My first thought was you make it sound like hard work and deprivation. It's not so much if you just jump in quickly and go "mental" (as some would call it, not me) with a structural dietary change. I did and lost most of my 17 kg in about 8 weeks. Or even progressively keep cutting/substituting foods until your diet is unrecognizable after some months. I get the impression that many are just cutting the junk food, upping the exercise and expecting everything to work out. It will for a while, but it appears to be an ongoing battle. It's like wading ever so slowly into a cold swimming pool. Easier to jump in IMO.

Fair comment. However for me I'd say it's not so much hard work and deprivation, but more not being a pig. I had cut back on the 'junk' but not eliminated it completely, and lately it's been creeping back in increasingly so. As I said, complacency has been the problem, figuring that a little more bad eating would be covered by my increased exercise. Of course I really do know better.

As for "going mental" I figure that works from some people, but probably not me. On past experience, it's more successful for me to gradually adjust my diet, cutting out one thing until I no longer crave it or I have a more healthy alternative to replace it. Also for me, personally, for some things it's more sustainable to change from a daily intake to an occasional one, rather than total elimination. That way the odd consumption doesn't feel like a failure that can then spiral into defeat.

Nobody wrote:Like you (and many) I seem to struggle to maintain a set weight (that isn't significantly overweight). So most of the time I'm either gaining or losing. Which may be a sign that I need to learn more. Still gaining at the moment. I'm hoping I can just get my weight to level off, but unlikely from previous experience.

Plenty of scientific study suggests that people have - or perhaps develop at some critical point of their life - a 'normal' weight that their body forever battles to maintain, despite attempts to change it. I'm not knowledgeable enough in this area to agree or refute it, so I'll leave it at that.

Anyway, like you I have a lot more to learn and will hopefully continue to do so on this journey. Still holding out hope for 85kg by then end of the year, though it would be more likely if I'd been able to manage 90kg by the end of this month. I've been happy with my progress in the last 11 months leading up to last month. I might have another go at eating 5 smaller meals per day, rather than 3, which I did quite a few years ago when weight training. I actually found it difficult to eat so often, so definitely no hunger issues then! :shock:
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Nobody » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:38 am

tcdev wrote:...As I said, complacency has been the problem, figuring that a little more bad eating would be covered by my increased exercise. Of course I really do know better.

Yes, I posted either in this thread or the diet thread pointing to a recent study which shows that exercise beyond using your standard daily energy budget, doesn't use more energy. The suggested reason is that the exercise just taxes other systems of the body during exercise. An example is the immune system reducing during exercise. That is not to say exercise has no effect. A study in the first post of this thread shows that it's still 22% of the total weight loss effect with 78% being diet. Exercise induced hormonal changes are getting the credit for weight loss so far. I may post a YouTube video later discussing the matter.

tcdev wrote:As for "going mental" I figure that works from some people, but probably not me. On past experience, it's more successful for me to gradually adjust my diet, cutting out one thing until I no longer crave it or I have a more healthy alternative to replace it. Also for me, personally, for some things it's more sustainable to change from a daily intake to an occasional one, rather than total elimination. That way the odd consumption doesn't feel like a failure that can then spiral into defeat.

Fair enough. It was more a general comment than a personal one directed at you. Whatever works for you. I thought it might help some to view diet from a different perspective. :)

tcdev wrote:Plenty of scientific study suggests that people have - or perhaps develop at some critical point of their life - a 'normal' weight that their body forever battles to maintain, despite attempts to change it. I'm not knowledgeable enough in this area to agree or refute it, so I'll leave it at that.

Set point theory is an interesting one. I'm a believer in it, but not the way most people think of it. I believe the set point is determined by a combination of genetics, diet and exercise. So for a particular person, their set point is determined by what their diet makeup is and the amount and type of exercise.

I'm not a believer in the common set point belief that the majority of people were always predetermined to be obese by 45 yo and there is nothing they can do about it. The only people that applies to are those who already walk half and hour daily and their shopping trolleys have almost all low density whole plant foods in them. In other words, next to no one in modern wealthy societies.

tcdev wrote:Anyway, like you I have a lot more to learn and will hopefully continue to do so on this journey. Still holding out hope for 85kg by then end of the year, though it would be more likely if I'd been able to manage 90kg by the end of this month. I've been happy with my progress in the last 11 months leading up to last month. I might have another go at eating 5 smaller meals per day, rather than 3, which I did quite a few years ago when weight training. I actually found it difficult to eat so often, so definitely no hunger issues then! :shock:

I saw a video recently about a study which showed that eating less meals was more effective for weight loss. More meals likely works for protein pacing for bodybuilding and constant training/exercise/activity, but Patt0 and myself in the past have used intermittent feeding/fasting as an easier way to lose weight. Two meals a day and a 16 hour per day break from eating is usually part of that. An easier way to do calorie restriction. 85 kg or less by the end of the year easily IMO.

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby RobertL » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:25 pm

RobertL wrote:
RobertL wrote:
RobertL wrote:6 January 2017
Height: 190cm
Weight: 108.2kg
BMI: 29.97
WtHR: 0.59 (112/190)

25 January 2017
Weight: 107.8kg
BMI: 29.86
WtHR: 0.58 (111/190)

16 February 2017
Height: 190cm
Weight: 106.8kg
BMI: 29.58
WtHR: 0.58 (110/190)

3 April 2017
Weight: 105.9kg
BMI: 29.34
WtHR: 0.57 (107/190)



OK - I've been a bit remiss in posting here, because I had 3 weeks holidays in April and came back ~1kg heavier

So, as at 1/6/2017:

Height: 190cm
Weight: 105.3kg
BMI: 29.17
WtHR: 0.56 (106/190)

So - slowly improving still.

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Patt0 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:04 am

June 02
WtHtr = 0.45
Weight=83kg
Waist= 83cm



June 09
WtHtr = 0.45
Weight=82kg
Waist= 83cm

weight loss is slowing down. I admit I am not trying hard. Last night I ate,

~4 cups rice in my two serves of chicken soup.
2 handfuls of baked potato chips
zesty wrap with 1 tomato, 1/2 cucumber, 1 carrot, 1/2 avo, onion, heap of lettuce and three table spoons hommus.
three cadbury chokkies
packet of aldi sesame crisps
Still peckish so finished off with a toastie with Camembert cheese.

My goal was 80kg and now that I am nearly there, I believe that will have me at 11-13% fat. For endurance athletics that seems to be the range for optimum performance. If only I was 30 years younger....

Anyway, in anticipation I just got myself a Rapha bundle in size M. My first bibs were XXL.
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tcdev
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby tcdev » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:37 pm

Nobody wrote:Fair enough. It was more a general comment than a personal one directed at you. Whatever works for you. I thought it might help some to view diet from a different perspective. :)

No worries, I appreciate your suggestion. I'm open to other strategies if my own are failing.

Nobody wrote:I'm not a believer in the common set point belief that the majority of people were always predetermined to be obese by 45 yo and there is nothing they can do about it. The only people that applies to are those who already walk half and hour daily and their shopping trolleys have almost all low density whole plant foods in them. In other words, next to no one in modern wealthy societies.

If I was forced to decide one way or the other, I'd probably agree.

Nobody wrote:I saw a video recently about a study which showed that eating less meals was more effective for weight loss. More meals likely works for protein pacing for bodybuilding and constant training/exercise/activity, but Patt0 and myself in the past have used intermittent feeding/fasting as an easier way to lose weight. Two meals a day and a 16 hour per day break from eating is usually part of that. An easier way to do calorie restriction. 85 kg or less by the end of the year easily IMO.

I have one friend who is a vegetarian and has been fasting 2 days/week for many, many years and he's been an 'ideal' weight since I've known him. Another (incidentally, mutual, of his) friend recently made a concerted effort to lose some of his almost-130kg weight by similarly fasting (and monitoring calorie intake) and he's down in the 80's range now, within 12 months! And he seems to be keeping it off.

So I do definitely lend some credence to the fasting theories. The whole "our ancestors weren't able to eat every day" theory makes sense. And yes, my eating-every-3-hrs plan did come more from a weightlifting background and was designed - in my case - more to regulate portion sizes and eliminate unhealthy snacking than anything else. But I'm yet to embark on that tact as of yet...

...the good news is that I'm back on track this month, already hitting a new low! Makes me wonder if 'temporary transgressions' are easier to reverse? Or perhaps I was even slacker than I admitted to myself and my diligence this month just shows that up? Either way, good to be heading in the right direction again! :)
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RobertL
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby RobertL » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:45 am

No new numbers to report, but I pulled an old pair of knicks out of the drawer for this morning's ride. They are actually the first pair of cycling knicks I ever bought - in August 2015.

They are now too big for me, and I will have to get rid of them. Progress!

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby tcdev » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:28 pm

June check-in!

Started this journey mid-2014 at 114.5kg.

As of 2017:
12/2016: Weight = 98kg, WtHR=0.59, BMI=30.93
01/2017: Weight = 98.0kg, WtHR=0.585, BMI=30.93
02/2107: Weight = 96.5kg, WtHR=0.57, BMI=30.45
03/2017: Weight = 94.9kg, WtHR=0.57, BMI=29.95
04/2017: Weight = 93.4kg, WtHR=0.56, BMI=29.48
05/2017: Weight = 94.7kg, WtHR=0.57, BMI=29.89

June 30th:
Weight = 93.3kg (-1.4kg)
WtHR = 38.5*2.54/178 = 0.55 (take care/consider action)
BMI = 93.3/(1.78^2) = 29.45 (overweight)

Another yo-yo month to be honest but I have, at least, reversed last month's disaster. If it wasn't for last month's aberration, I'd be within 2kg of my half-year goal - but it was not to be. I've decided on my year-end goal now - 84.5kg, exactly 30kg below my starting weight. That's a bit more to lose than I've lost in the 1st half of the year, so it's not going to be easy by any means. There may be some changes to make.

The exercise side of the equation is not an issue at all; each month this year I've cycled for more hours than the previous, and I'm really enjoying it. If I had the budget for a smart trainer, I'd probably be spending even more time on Zwift! Even as-is it's extra motivation when I kick my cycling buddies' asses on the road too! ;)
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boyracer
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby boyracer » Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:09 pm

boyracer wrote:
boyracer wrote:I'm in.
weight this morning 110 kegs
height 186 cm ( hey, i'm shrinking!)
BMI 31.8
WtHR 0.56 ( 104 cm)
History: 2011 i was down to <90 kgs, riding every day, climbing hard every 2nd day, and loving life. Peeps said i was starting to look gaunt though!
Since then i have struggled massively with work/life balance ( went back to study/ 3 young kids/ house renos....)
Now i barely fit into my cycling gear so have been riding my fixie or my SS MTB (in baggy clothes). Trouble is I can still ride.. banged out an imperial century in December with no prep and did SSWC MTB 'race' for 2 hours around wombat forest in late October.
But it's time to take action... New job/ career, kid's finally starting school.
i want to do something cycling related and extraordinary for my 50th in 2.5 years, so have started to watch intake and do daily weights session/HIT ( 3 days on, 1 off).
It's 39 degrees today , same tomorrow, so not worrying too much about cycling...


Checking in.
103.0 kgs this morning.
waist ~100 cms ( .53)
height properly measure at 188cms by missus.
Bmi= 28
things fitting better, belt buckle hole needed changing.
peeps noticing changes.
loving my 1 hour plus commute (60 km return with 800 m elevation).
still doing weights every 2nd day with a fair amount of yoga/ stretching.
diet is still pretty shocking...


100.2 kgs this morning. Has gone down to 99.5 but hovers at 100. I have't 'lost' any weight for over 2 months now. Bit more erratic at efforts with work pressures,etc.
waist at 96 cms. (,51)
BMI =28.3 ???
Still on the weights and cycling through winter averaging 3 commutes a week (180 kms).
Although figures are the same my leg warmers now won't stay up and t shirts i haven't worn in years now fit.
Still drinking and eating enough for two men though...

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby RobertL » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:37 am

Started in mid 2015 at approx 120kg.

2017:
06/01/2017: Weight = 108.2kg, BMI = 29.97, WtHR = 0.59 (112/190)
25/01/2017: Weight = 107.8kg, BMI = 29.86, WtHR = 0.58 (111/190)
16/02/2017: Weight = 106.8kg, BMI = 29.58, WtHR = 0.58 (110/190)
03/04/2017: Weight = 105.9kg, BMI = 29.34, WtHR = 0.57 (107/190)
01/06/2017: Weight = 105.3kg, BMI = 29.17, WtHR = 0.56 (106/190)

Yesterday:
13/07/2017: Weight = 104.6kg, BMI = 28.98, WtHR = 0.55 (105/190)

So I seem to have slowed down, but I will continue.

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Patt0 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:20 pm

Patt0 wrote:June 09
WtHtr = 0.45
Weight=82kg
Waist= 83cm



July 21
WtHtr = 0.45
Weight=81kg
Waist= 82cm

Was close to 81kg on june 16 but not close enough for a prize. Then had a week holiday, then had the flu for two weeks. During that time I hovered around 82kg. Back on the wagon this week.

Have replaced my salad wrap with salad in a bowl and halved deserts.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby fishwop » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:45 pm

Started 2nd April 2016 at 141kg.
16/4/17 136kg
30/4/17 133kg
14/5/17 130.3kg
28/5/14 128.3kg
11/6/17 126.4kg
25/6/17 122.9kg
09/7/17 120.5kg
22/7/17 117.9kg

The aim is 85kg, still a very long way to go. I've done this by logging my calories in and out, riding increasing kilometres (up to approx 120km per week now) and also walking 15,000 steps a day on average. Oh and a serious reduction in sugar/alcohol/junk food consumption as well.

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Patt0 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:15 am

Patt0 wrote:
July 21
WtHtr = 0.45
Weight=81kg
Waist= 82cm



August 04
WtHtr = 0.45
Weight=80kg
Waist= 82cm

Want to wrap up weight loss by the end of the month and be at a weight of 76-77kg. So going hardcore. One plate of dinner and only a slither of desert.
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Nobody » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 am

No waist measurement today as I didn't measure early enough. But I guess somewhere in the 0.45 range for WHtR

66.7 kg, up 2.6
BMI 22.3

Nobody wrote:20th May:

Waist 76.0 cm, up 1
WHtR 0.439

64.1 kg, up 1.5
BMI 21.4


Haven't been doing much riding lately and eating more protein and fat over the last few months. Surprised that I'm still under 23 for BMI. I'll probably start giving shape and weight more attention when spring comes. Not looking to be very thin this summer.

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby RobertL » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:05 pm

RobertL wrote:Started in mid 2015 at approx 120kg.

2017:
06/01/2017: Weight = 108.2kg, BMI = 29.97, WtHR = 0.59 (112/190)
25/01/2017: Weight = 107.8kg, BMI = 29.86, WtHR = 0.58 (111/190)
16/02/2017: Weight = 106.8kg, BMI = 29.58, WtHR = 0.58 (110/190)
03/04/2017: Weight = 105.9kg, BMI = 29.34, WtHR = 0.57 (107/190)
01/06/2017: Weight = 105.3kg, BMI = 29.17, WtHR = 0.56 (106/190)
13/07/2017: Weight = 104.6kg, BMI = 28.98, WtHR = 0.55 (105/190)



07/08/2017: Weight = 103.7kg, BMI = 28.88, WtHR = 0.55 (105/189.5)

Also, I have measured my height with great accuracy and found out that I am 5mm shorter than I thought. It pays to be accurate! (But I'm not going back to adjust those earlier figures.)

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Patt0 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:28 pm

Patt0 wrote:


August 04
WtHtr = 0.45
Weight=80kg
Waist= 82cm



August 11
WtHtr = 0.44
Weight=79kg
Waist= 81cm
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Nobody » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:11 am

OK, finally got the waist measured for a starting point in my winter to summer change. My relatively easy goal is to get WHtR under 0.44 by summer. So probably need to lose 3 kg in 3 months.

Waist 79 cm, up 3 (rounding up to the nearest cm)
WHtR 0.457

66.0 kg, down 0.7
BMI 22.1

7th Aug:
Nobody wrote:66.7 kg, up 2.6
BMI 22.3

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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Nobody » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:01 am

5 days since last measurement. [The more I measure, the more focused I become.]
I think my ideal weight is probably somewhere around 63 kg with WHtR below 0.44.

Waist 78 cm, down 1
WHtR 0.451
65.4 kg, down 0.6
BMI 21.9

13th Aug
Nobody wrote:Waist 79 cm, up 3
WHtR 0.457
66.0 kg, down 0.7
BMI 22.1


7th Aug:
Nobody wrote:66.7 kg, up 2.6
BMI 22.3

Nobody
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Re: BNA Losers Club 2017

Postby Nobody » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:26 am

8 days since last measurement. Not having a win this week. Probably because I ate later in the day yesterday.

Waist 78 cm, same
WHtR 0.451
65.8 kg, up 0.4
BMI 22.0

18th Aug:
Nobody wrote:Waist 78 cm, down 1
WHtR 0.451
65.4 kg, down 0.6
BMI 21.9


13th Aug:
Nobody wrote:Waist 79 cm, up 3
WHtR 0.457
66.0 kg, down 0.7
BMI 22.1

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