Uh... downstairs...

Forum rules
The information / discussion in the Cycling Health Forum is not qualified medical advice. Please consult your doctor.
User avatar
MattyK
Posts: 2232
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:07 pm
Location: Melbourne

Uh... downstairs...

Postby MattyK » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:31 pm

So, I've managed to pick up a saddle sore this week :x and am doing a tri on Sunday. I've been using the same saddle (ISM Attack) for a while and it's always been super comfy, so it's both surprising and annoying.

Any tips for relieving the pressure? unfortunately I commute daily so staying off the bike isn't really an option... Might switch to the commuter with the other saddle (Charge Spoon).

Got access to some curash cream, hoping that helps a bit.

Might have to resort to a bandaid, but hmm, hair... :shock:

cp123
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:50 pm

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby cp123 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:22 pm

dr time? wait till its ripe and then squeeze the goop out of it? but if its not ripe yet you can get magnoplasm to draw the goop out? mind you, that's like clag but it does the job. approx. $15 at a chemist and it'll last for decades.

or just hthu? :D

User avatar
warthog1
Posts: 6796
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby warthog1 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:41 pm

This stuff will probably get you through.
http://lucaspapaw.com.au/
The only time I've had saddle sores I needed a week off the bike eventually to get rid of them

User avatar
find_bruce
Posts: 6855
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby find_bruce » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:20 pm

Saddles are not the only suspect - I don't normally get them, but it seems I get them from one particular pair of knicks (supplied as part of a charity ride). Changing to my usual knicks is part of my recovery treatment.

I would suggest using a razor around the affected area before putting an appropriate dressing on it to stop the rubbing (bandaid or whatever size it takes to cover).

User avatar
MattyK
Posts: 2232
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:07 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby MattyK » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:53 pm

It's not a big spot or infected. Just an abraded/chafed spot at this stage… still hurts like heck though. I played with my seating position on the way home today and reckon I can handle it for the 10k ride by sitting almost off the nose and a little to the right.

find_bruce wrote:I would suggest using a razor around the affected area before putting an appropriate dressing on it to stop the rubbing (bandaid or whatever size it takes to cover).

Is this where I should decide to shave my legs for the event, then forget where to stop on the way up? :mrgreen:

User avatar
Dodgy-Knee
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Western Australia

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby Dodgy-Knee » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:07 pm

MattyK wrote:It's not a big spot or infected. Just an abraded/chafed spot at this stage… still hurts like heck though.


Sounds like a problem with your chamois ... I had a new pair of knicks with a weird/poor stitching pattern around the seam ... I went for a 50+km ride and just couldn't get comfortable .. it didn't hurt but I was always shifting to find the seat sweet spot ... anyway, when i got home I discovered that the chamois had rubbed two spots under my backside almost raw ...

Anyway, keep the area clean as best you can ... antiseptic cream like Bepanthen works really well (speaking from experience) ... give it a few days to settle down and use a different pair of knicks.

This might be a bit late but a bit of handy advice someone gave me is to have a quick shower before you ride - especially if it's a hot day ... and also use good chamois cream (the stuff I use contains tea tree oil to keep the lid on any bugs that might infect hair follicles).

User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 28899
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:29 pm

MattyK wrote:It's not a big spot or infected. Just an abraded/chafed spot at this stage… still hurts like heck though. I played with my seating position on the way home today and reckon I can handle it for the 10k ride by sitting almost off the nose and a little to the right.

find_bruce wrote:I would suggest using a razor around the affected area before putting an appropriate dressing on it to stop the rubbing (bandaid or whatever size it takes to cover).

Is this where I should decide to shave my legs for the event, then forget where to stop on the way up? :mrgreen:

Changing position like that will likely lead to more pain that isn't from the sore.
I'm in the same boat atm, suggest some form of anaethetic cream under a bandaid if there's no infection but keep an eye on things. If it starts to infect go the magnoplasm route
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

g-boaf
Posts: 8600
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby g-boaf » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:54 pm

Don't commute - at all. Just stay off the bike and hopefully it'll ease up. Perhaps see the doctor.

And in future, I'd also suggest swapping over different kit. Some people they commute morning and afternoon in the same cycling gear, don't do that. Wear fresh / clean kit in the afternoon. Don't wear your sweaty and yucky kit in the afternoon. Anything like that is a good idea. Also try the usual chamois creams, they help.

find_bruce wrote:from one particular pair of knicks (supplied as part of a charity ride)


Bin those things immediately. Some of those promo kit provided with special events must be chosen by people who never ride bikes at all, or do so once a month, or less than that. :roll: Some of those things are absolute cheap and nasty rubbish.

I have one brand/line of cycling kit I go for and nothing less than that. I don't care if it is expensive - the extra money is well worth avoiding a week off the bike.

Dodgy-Knee wrote:This might be a bit late but a bit of handy advice someone gave me is to have a quick shower before you ride - especially if it's a hot day ... and also use good chamois cream (the stuff I use contains tea tree oil to keep the lid on any bugs that might infect hair follicles).


Good tip, and totally agree it might be something wrong with the shorts/padding. Some of them are just awful. I have some Champsys shorts that I absolutely must use chamois cream with or they'll cause all sorts of problems. Don't know what they did in the design of that padding, but it seems incredibly abrasive. :roll:

User avatar
MattyK
Posts: 2232
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:07 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby MattyK » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:16 pm

Have had the same bibs for a while so I don't see them as the cause. I don't usually change them for a few days of commuting and have never had a problem in the past, but I'll rotate through some fresh ones...

User avatar
rodneycc
Posts: 2701
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:50 pm
Location: Melbourne Eastern Suburbs, Victoria

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby rodneycc » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:16 pm

Canestan or Clonea cream is good for those sorts of things as well. I wouldn't actually be sticking any bandaides on it or you might feed it. Also Savlon cream is a no no for me (made my groin chafing worst).
2013 BMC TM SLR01;2013/14 Bianchi Inf CV
2013 Lynskey Helix;2013 XACD Ti Di2
2013 Giant TCR Adv SL1;2014 Giant Defy Adv SL

User avatar
grantw
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:22 am
Location: Wollongong

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby grantw » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:27 am

I find rotating through different brands of knicks beneficial, for me the slight alterations in chamois patterns ensure ongoing comfort. I've learned that cheap knicks and especially charity ride gear are not worth it.
Image

Lan Wing
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:49 pm

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby Lan Wing » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:02 am

Do you guys use chamois cream for every ride, or just some rides or past a certain threshold? E.g. 1hour, 30km?

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9619
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby RonK » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:11 am

MattyK wrote:It's not a big spot or infected. Just an abraded/chafed spot at this stage… still hurts like heck though.

Try this.

Image

Not joking. :wink:
Last edited by RonK on Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

g-boaf
Posts: 8600
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby g-boaf » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:15 am

Lan Wing wrote:Do you guys use chamois cream for every ride, or just some rides or past a certain threshold? E.g. 1hour, 30km?


1 hour is just a short ride for me. Maybe 4 hour ride or if I'm wearing the certain brands of kit. :roll: If I'm wearing Cuore, not necessary. Their kit is comfortable and the saddle I have on my bike is a really good one.

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9619
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby RonK » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:15 am

Lan Wing wrote:Do you guys use chamois cream for every ride, or just some rides or past a certain threshold? E.g. 1hour, 30km?


Always - it's the initial period when the chamois is dry and chafes that does the damage.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

User avatar
CKinnard
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby CKinnard » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:40 am

You don't say where the sore is and what type of cycling caused it. For a seasoned cyclist (one who does >3 hours a week, most weeks) to get a sore, they've usually done many more k's and/or climbs than usual, or they've had pain elsewhere that saw them adjust their saddle position.

And it makes a diff whether it is more weightbearing or friction (fluid filled friction blister).

some generic advice for friction sores:
- lower your saddle 1/2cm at a time, until friction pain reduces. (ideally you want your knee bending 30-33 degrees. some will tell you not to muck around with the saddle, but that's inappropriate when carrying an 'injury'.
- experiment increasing and decreasing cadence to see which is more comfortable.
- appreciate that friction against the skin is more likely to cause blisters when you are dehydrated. why? because your skin is drier, less lubricated. So to avoid sores in the first place, stay well hydrated. Most cyclists don't.
- nutrition is also critical to keep extracellular fluid optimized with nutrients and at the right pH. If you are not doing a minimum 5 cups of veg and 2 cups of fruit a day (in accord with the Australian Dietary Guidelines), then your tissue will be more susceptible to failure.
- whatever cream you use, make sure you apply it more than generously. You want to be totally saturated. Most riders don't apply enough. You really have to be uncomfortably wet when you pull your nicks up. It is better to overapply than under. Over time, you can reduce the amount used until you start to notice discomfort.
- as for which cream, I favor more water based rather than oil based. You don't need the most expensive. Sorbolene creams are not expensive and are used generously by many pro teams. You are using the cream to improve hydration which reduces friction within and between epidermis, dermis, and hypodermis layers, and secondarily to reduce external friction (between skin and nicks). If you think paw paw has some magic ingredient, eat more of it.

User avatar
warthog1
Posts: 6796
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby warthog1 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:23 am

CKinnard wrote: If you think paw paw has some magic ingredient, eat more of it.


I believe it was recommended to me due to it's topical antiseptic properties, at least that was my understanding.
The bloke who told me is a cyclist of note. ie very experienced so some knowledge on what works or doesn't.
Last edited by warthog1 on Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
warthog1
Posts: 6796
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby warthog1 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:25 am

Lan Wing wrote:Do you guys use chamois cream for every ride, or just some rides or past a certain threshold? E.g. 1hour, 30km?


Only for 100km + for me.
I have found a saddle and fit that works.

User avatar
Tim
Posts: 1719
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:02 pm
Location: Gippsland Lakes

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby Tim » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:17 pm

CKinnard wrote: If you think paw paw has some magic ingredient, eat more of it.


Lucas Papaw Ointment is a bit of a con.
96% petroleum jelly. 4% beautifully natural and wonderfully healing goop.
Not saying it doesn't work but it's really just very expensive Vaseline, like four times the price.
I use Skin Basics, Zinc and Castor Oil Cream. Dirt cheap, bulk quantities, no nasties and it works a treat.
For the very rare outbreak Betadine antiseptic and Lignocaine/Xylocaine cream, a topical local aneasthetic.
The local aneasthetic works best on broken or chaffed skin. It's not very effective on intact skin.
Last edited by Tim on Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RobertL
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:08 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby RobertL » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:43 pm

I've never had this problem but one suggestion that I've read is to use the Compeed style blister bandaids. Put one on the sore spot asap and leave it there.

I've used Compeeds for their intended purpose - blisters on feet - and they are fantastic for that.

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9619
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby RonK » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:43 pm

CKinnard wrote:- whatever cream you use, make sure you apply it more than generously. You want to be totally saturated. Most riders don't apply enough. You really have to be uncomfortably wet when you pull your nicks up. It is better to overapply than under.


Yes - the same way the soigneur Eulle in the movie "Hell on Wheels" butters Erik Zabel's chamois.

CKinnard wrote:- as for which cream, I favor more water based rather than oil based. You don't need the most expensive. Sorbolene creams are not expensive and are used generously by many pro teams. You are using the cream to improve hydration which reduces friction within and between epidermis, dermis, and hypodermis layers, and secondarily to reduce external friction (between skin and nicks). If you think paw paw has some magic ingredient, eat more of it.


That what I've used for years. You can buy a 500g tub of generic sorbolene cream from pharmacies for around $10.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

User avatar
warthog1
Posts: 6796
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby warthog1 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:04 pm

Tim wrote:
CKinnard wrote: If you think paw paw has some magic ingredient, eat more of it.


Lucas Papaw Ointment is a bit of a con.
96% petroleum jelly. 4% beautifully natural and wonderfully healing goop.
Not saying it doesn't work but it's really just very expensive Vaseline, like four times the price.

4% of the active ingredient is actually a reasonable amount in comparison with alot of products.
This link claims too strong a concentration will burn the skin.

http://mashable.com/2015/08/05/papaw-oi ... 0bwVV9eGqX
Who knows?
It's comparable price and at least as effective as the assos chamois creme I've also tried.

User avatar
CKinnard
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby CKinnard » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:06 pm

warthog1 wrote:
CKinnard wrote: If you think paw paw has some magic ingredient, eat more of it.


I believe it was recommended to me due to it's topical antiseptic properties, at least that was my understanding.
The bloke who told me is a cyclist of note. ie very experienced so some knowledge on what works or doesn't.


I've met a lot of cyclists of note Wartie. There's not a lot of agreement between them on what chain lube to use, let alone chamois cream!
Most pros don't even realize theres' water and oil based creams, but that's the property they most 'feel' the difference between product.

It's been a while since I looked into paw paw creams, which I did because I always have patients ask about them.
The therapeutic benefits are supposed to be best from fresh green paw paw leaves, not the seeds or flesh, and that's never stipulated in the ingredients.

Further, significant antiseptic properties are well established for tea tree oil and manuka honey, so why has paw paw made a splash? Because people perceive it as fleshy, moist, soft, and full of nutrition. But that's certainly not the leaves which have the stronger therapeutic qualities.

Incidentally, ime one of the best natural moisturizers is aloe vera, not out of a bottle, but scraped off the stems and minced up to break the gel matrix. I think it has mild antiseptic properties as well, as does most plant matter, until it oxidizes. I've sometimes mixed this aloe concoction in with sorbolene cream to make the cream 'wetter'.

And those who have promoted paw paw for antiseptic properties have also promoted it as a contraceptive.
The thing is it is easier to prove contraceptive benefit than antiseptic!

Re Compeed bandages (and taping), I didn't mention these because ime they usually come off or fold over on themselves with sustained riding. Nevertheless, if you have a sore in a less friction susceptible spot, give it a try.
Another thing I've seen is riders wearing two pairs of nicks = 2 x chamois! usually an older stretched pair externally.

User avatar
MattyK
Posts: 2232
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:07 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby MattyK » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:26 pm

CKinnard wrote:You don't say where the sore is and what type of cycling caused it. For a seasoned cyclist (one who does >3 hours a week, most weeks) to get a sore, they've usually done many more k's and/or climbs than usual, or they've had pain elsewhere that saw them adjust their saddle position.

It was I think from a fairly short ride on Monday, ~20km, usual commute with a bypass to Blackburn velodrome for some laps / aero bar position practice. While there I dropped my bars 10mm. But I have done a 70km ride with the bars in that position (about 40 of which was on the aero bars) so I'm not sure if that is related...

There are two spots of broken skin, roughly corresponding to about the circled spots below:
Image

Not sure if I got a bunched chamois or something, didn't really bother me at the time.

User avatar
CKinnard
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Uh... downstairs...

Postby CKinnard » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:46 pm

OK, I've seen friction blisters there before with Adamo saddles. They are wider in the nose than many other saddles and can more easily rub on the inner thigh. That you only have blisters on one side is testament that very very few riders are absolutely symmetrical on the saddle, or apply equal force through both legs, or have similar skeletal alignment.

In your case, something I've done for the short term before is rotate the saddle away from the side of the effected leg....twist it 2mm away from the blister at first. then if it feels really good, back it off to 1mm and try again. if it feels not enough take it out to 3mm. I wouldn't recommend rotating more than 3mm or the other leg will more likely be compromised.

Here's something else to try. Considering the blister/s are in a non weightbearing area, and more amenable to bandaging, consider this
- saturate a gauze bandage in your favorite cream
- then use an elasticized strapping tape to hold the bandage on. Wrap the tape right around the thigh a few times.
- the tape will stop the skin from moving around on itself as much.
- don't leave it on overnight. compression of the dermis compromises optimal healing.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users