Rehydration

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ft_critical
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Rehydration

Postby ft_critical » Thu May 25, 2017 2:36 pm

Hi Team.

I think I struggle to rehydrate after training/racing. I drink a fair bit of water (pre, during, post), but still don't seem to hydrate - mild burning lips, glassy dry eyes, tired mid afternoon.

Is this real, am I just suffering wind-burn or something and water is fine? What is the science behind rehydration, do I need to do it, why?
What are some products or ingredients in products that will hydrate me? A lot of this is that I feel that I struggle to feel hydrated - that feel is a comparison to non-riding days.

Thanks,

FT

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ValleyForge
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Re: Rehydration

Postby ValleyForge » Thu May 25, 2017 3:38 pm

I'm curious about the link between "rehydration" and your feeling "mild burning lips, glassy dry eyes, tired mid afternoon"

After what what length ride? In what weather? Do you need to pee during the ride? How soon after the ride do you need to pee?

Sounds more like you are ketotoic. Which is not a bad thing.
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Re: Rehydration

Postby eeksll » Thu May 25, 2017 9:19 pm

can't help with your specific symptoms, but might help you conclude by weighing yourself before and after your rides.

I did a similar thing when getting headaches after physical activities.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby Duck! » Fri May 26, 2017 12:37 am

You also need to replace the electrolytes you lose through sweat. Water alone will not achieve this. Aside from aiding muscle function, electrolytes, particulary sodium, assist absorption of water into the blood stream, as they attach to water molecules and drag it in with them.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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ft_critical
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Re: Rehydration

Postby ft_critical » Mon May 29, 2017 9:31 pm

Thanks, sorry for the late reply. ValleyForge's answer prompted me to look at something else which might be the cause, though it is so specific that the internet is unhelpful. I would have to consult and actual medical specialist - which is far less convenient and more expensive than typing on the couch.

Regardless, it might be worth the electrolyte route. Duck, do I just drop a teaspoon of salt in 500ml of water or is a hydration drink from say SIS (sponsors our club) worth it?

eeksll, that is a good idea, although I would have to weigh myself which would result in me knowing my weight which would not be great. Each time I get on the scales I am disappointed. But seriously, it is a great suggestion esp given there is some possibility I am not indeed dehydrated but have a different condition.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby Derny Driver » Mon May 29, 2017 9:41 pm

ft_critical wrote:Regardless, it might be worth the electrolyte route. Duck, do I just drop a teaspoon of salt in 500ml of water or is a hydration drink from say SIS (sponsors our club) worth it?
.

I just did a tour of the USA with an NRS team and spent every night mixing up 40 bidons of elctrolyte for the next days racing.
You should be drinking the SIS/Torq/Endura/Skratch or whatever when you ride, and tanking up on the recovery carb/protein drink post ride.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby g-boaf » Mon May 29, 2017 9:43 pm

ft_critical wrote:Thanks, sorry for the late reply. ValleyForge's answer prompted me to look at something else which might be the cause, though it is so specific that the internet is unhelpful. I would have to consult and actual medical specialist - which is far less convenient and more expensive than typing on the couch.

Regardless, it might be worth the electrolyte route. Duck, do I just drop a teaspoon of salt in 500ml of water or is a hydration drink from say SIS (sponsors our club) worth it?

eeksll, that is a good idea, although I would have to weigh myself which would result in me knowing my weight which would not be great. Each time I get on the scales I am disappointed. But seriously, it is a great suggestion esp given there is some possibility I am not indeed dehydrated but have a different condition.


Ssshhh... Don't tell your club sponsors, try Torq instead - that stuff is good. It tastes good, doesn't make your stomach feel yucky. Skratch labs would be second choice, others take your chances... Endura never goes in any of my bottles these days, ever.

And listen to what Derny says above.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby Derny Driver » Mon May 29, 2017 9:49 pm

g-boaf wrote:Ssshhh... Don't tell your club sponsors, try Torq instead - that stuff is good. It tastes good, doesn't make your stomach feel yucky. Skratch labs would be second choice, others take your chances... Endura never goes in any of my bottles these days, ever.

Agree, we were using Torq and Skratch :wink:

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Re: Rehydration

Postby Duck! » Mon May 29, 2017 11:30 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
ft_critical wrote:Regardless, it might be worth the electrolyte route. Duck, do I just drop a teaspoon of salt in 500ml of water or is a hydration drink from say SIS (sponsors our club) worth it?
.

I just did a tour of the USA with an NRS team and spent every night mixing up 40 bidons of elctrolyte for the next days racing.
You should be drinking the SIS/Torq/Endura/Skratch or whatever when you ride, and tanking up on the recovery carb/protein drink post ride.

I'll double quote, 'cos DD's answer lines up with mine. ;-)

A spoonful of salt in a drink bottle is only partially effective - it will address the sodium and chlorine, but leave you deficient in potassium, calcium and magnesium, not to mention be somewhat unpalatable! A properly formulated mix such as Torq, Endura, SIS etc will have all the necessary electrolytes, and crucially, unlike Gatorade & the like, have a lot less sugar. That said, Torq in particular out of the above list is designed as an energy product as well as electrolytes, so it is higher in carbs (fructose/maltodextrin mix, rather than simple table sugar) than the others. Maybe not a bad thing to top up the energy levels post-ride, but worth bearing in mind if you are watching your carb intake. Big thing in Torq's favour is it tastes good (it is my preferred stuff); SIS I've found works well for its electrolyte balance, but they use minimal-carb artificial sweetening, which I find gives a bit of a sickly, synthetic flavour which I don't like. Endura also works, but its very high magnesium content does give it a very gluey feel that doesn't agree with a lot of people.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby ft_critical » Tue May 30, 2017 4:58 pm

I don't need the carbs. I suppose I could drink it on the ride instead of plain water. I will give the SIS Hydro (I think it is called) a whirl.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby Ivanerrol » Tue May 30, 2017 10:41 pm

I'm an old bloke who detests nite cramps.
Organic bananas, avocados,almonds. Plus side - heaps of potassium,magnesium and fibre - on the minus side a fair few calories.

Mates son is a budding tennis professional. On those 38 degree days with the court temperatures well in excess of 40 degrees and on 3 - 5 set matches, coach makes him drink glassfulls of salt water to prevent cramps.
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Re: Rehydration

Postby Derny Driver » Wed May 31, 2017 9:22 am

Ivanerrol wrote:..... coach makes him drink glassfulls of salt water to prevent cramps.

That's very 1950's :shock:
I had a soccer coach who used to put a tourniquet on our players if they went down with a cramp. My mate was getting the tourniquet twisted around his quad once and yelled out " What the f are you doing Bill? Its a cramp, not a effing snake bite!" :D

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Re: Rehydration

Postby Duck! » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:00 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
Ivanerrol wrote:..... coach makes him drink glassfulls of salt water to prevent cramps.

That's very 1950's :shock:
I had a soccer coach who used to put a tourniquet on our players if they went down with a cramp. My mate was getting the tourniquet twisted around his quad once and yelled out " What the f are you doing Bill? Its a cramp, not a effing snake bite!" :D

Equally dated - and ineffective! - treatment for snake bite too. ;-)
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby g-boaf » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:51 pm

And another one "Pure" brand electrolyte/carb drink mix, super, super sweet.

Not sure I'd choose that again.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby trailgumby » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:41 pm

I've tried most of the above suggested brands except Torq, which I ruled out on price.

Endura is good but it takes awhile to acclimatise to the magnesium content and I find if I drink too much in one go it doesn't agree with me, and my on-the-bike fuel consumption plan is stuffed for the rest of the ride. OK if used with discipline. Currently working my way through a tub of it. Their lightly caffeinated gels are absolutely awesome though.

SIS - agree, much too sweet. :P Plus, aspartame (the artificial sweetener it is loaded with) is reputedly not great for brain health. Adversely affects concentration. After a few hours the ridiculous sweetness becomes unpleasant, you don't drink as much as you should, fuel consumption plan is stuffed for the rest of the ride.

Skratch Labs. Expensive, glorified gatorade. The carbs are 100% sucrose - that's table sugar, except you're paying 40 bucks a kilo for it. :shock: Tasted great (natural, dried raspberries for flavouring) but the same issues as gatorade with short insulin spikes followed by massive uncomfortable holes where you feel like death until you take the next mouthful. Never again.

The mix I keep coming back to is Hi5 EnergySource. It contains fructose and maltodextrin to give the quick lift followed by a sustained burn like Endura, and contains both sodium and potassium. No magnesium. The flavours are good, not excessively sweet, easily digestible so you can keep drinking it. Much more tolerable. Their gels are more watery, so they don;t stick to the roof of your mouth when it's dry.

My preferred mix for long rides though is Hi5 4:1. It has the same carb and electrolyte mix but contains 20% protein. I find if I use this for the last bottle that I recover much better. At the Mont 24 where you're going flat out for an hour, resting for 3, going flat out for an hour, rinse and repeat for 24 hours, it was a godsend. Don't think I would have been able to speak let alone drive to the motel afterwards running on just carbs and electrolyte, but I recovered pretty well after 93km ridden on dodgy suspension. Having some protein in the drink seems to limit muscle catabolisys during high-intensity endurance activity.

For summer they have an isotonic mix with fewer carbs and higher salt content to match the intended consumption rate in high temperatures. I found this works well too.

The also have electrolyte tablets you can drop into your bidon if you want electrolytes and no carbs.

No affiliation except as a satisfied customer. I'd buy shares if I could, though.

Other options I liked were Hammer Nutrition. Hammer Heed for carbs and electrolytes. Perpetuum if you want some protein with that. Excellent gels. Pricier though.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby g-boaf » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:43 pm

I didn't notice any "spikes" from Skatch Labs, though perhaps I don't drink enough of it. My ride yesterday of 106km was done on half a bottle of water with the "Pure" brand drink mix.

Agree on Endura gels, those are pretty good - although I rarely ever use them.

SIS do some more watery gels that are also alright.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby scirocco » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:09 pm

Agree with the recommendation for electrolytes. It's just as important as hydration, if not more so. I got hospitalised once for hyponatremia (low salt concentration in the blood) after a very hot and long day on the bike drinking only water and it was highly unpleasant and frightening (hallucinations). I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Ironically if I'd drunk less water I might not have been so bad. I wasn't even that dehydrated.
A High 5 tab in every second water bottle for me but anything will do really.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby ValleyForge » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:53 pm

scirocco wrote:...I got hospitalised once for hyponatremia (low salt concentration in the blood) after a very hot and long day on the bike drinking only water and it was highly unpleasant and frightening (hallucinations). I wouldn't wish it on anyone...

No you don't want central pontine myelinolysis. It sucks. Really sucks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_p ... elinolysis
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Re: Rehydration

Postby hamishm » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:50 pm

I rode 200km yesterday. I've been doing these distances for years, including at least once a month for the last 18 months. But I still feel tired and a bit dehydrated today (headache).

Yesterday was cold. I made an extra effort to drink a lot, was stopping roughly hourly for a road side pee, nice clear output. About 40% of what I drank was electrolyte (nuun active - https://nuun.com/products/nuun-active/). I definitely feel better today than sometimes after these rides.

It's possibly my headache is sore/tense neck and shoulders instead. Still, frustrating to still struggle with this after doing it for years, and might be a problem for longer riders planned later in the year.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby thatmdee » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:03 pm

I'm starting to do longer rides (2hour+), and trying to figure out rehydration and nutrition. I didn't want to start a new thread, and this one didn't seem too old.. so here goes.

I guess I'm after a mix of electrolytes and carbs to help with rehydration and as a fuel source when riding. I'm looking at something like Endura (easy to find) or Torq. However, I've also had dental issues lately with enamel erosion -- mostly as the result of drinking a lot of soft drink in my 20s. I'm using a tooth mousse, and have been told by the dentist I need to avoid acidic drinks, fruits, etc.

I'm a bit reluctant to pick up a tub of Endura or similar, given they usually contain citric and other acids. I'm not sure if I should just be drinking a pure electrolyte mix (e.g. Bulk Nutrients sell one) without any flavour mixed with water, and maybe some other carb source?

For carbs, I was thinking something like flapjacks (oats, brown sugar, golden syrup, maybe some dates, etc).. Or maybe I just buy some maltodextrin and dextrose or similar and mix with electrolyte powder ready to be used in a water bottle.

Basically, I'm wanting some fuelling and rehydration strategy. Powders like torq or endura seem to be easy option, but I'm wanting to avoid the citric and other acids if possible :|

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Re: Rehydration

Postby Neddysmith » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:55 am

This thread has popped up at the right time.....

And hoping im not gonna hijack it..

But with summer coming and the weather getting warmer i was thinking the same that just water may not be sufficient to stay hydrated.

I was thinking either some electrolyte powder like gatorade/powerade but was also thinking about BCAAs

Anyone have any opinions on which maybe better for some longer rides 2-4hrs?

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Re: Rehydration

Postby ValleyForge » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:53 am

thatmdee wrote:...have been told by the dentist I need to avoid acidic drinks, fruits, etc.

For the marginal benefit that electrolyte replacement drinks give over plain water, and the irreversibility of dental damage from food acids and simple sugars, I'd suggest water alone.
As for energy replacement - something with other than simple sugars would be best. But you will get a long stream of advice personal observations and factoids.
Make some home made energy bars is my contribution.
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Re: Rehydration

Postby ft_critical » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:14 pm

I am kind of replying to myself now, so a bit odd.

I bought a big tin of SIS Recovery. I have been using it after long rides (3hr+) and medium-distance-high-intensity rides. No dehydration symptoms, no tiredness and, the surprise, less muscle soreness.

I was sceptical so I have been doing it for months, sufficient for me to be confident in the results. Earlier this week I did an hour on a gym watt-bike (interstate travel without my recovery drink), sweated buckets - truly. I drank tons of water through the day, but a head-ache developed.

This morning, 1 hour endurance + 1 hour threshold race in my shed on Zwift, tons of sweat. I drank the recovery mix and off to work, no issues all day.


A real surprise.

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Re: Rehydration

Postby Patt0 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:25 am

I started to take a gel at 20-15 minutes to go in the race to energise for the final sprint. Didnt help my sprint, but the recovery effect was profound. Normally I would go and couch the rest of the day, eat and wait for the next day. With a gel, it was like I didnt race at all.

I hydrate with electrolytes potassium citrate 5g, magnesium citrate 1g, sodium chloride 1g twice a day. On my morning commute and the other with dinner.
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Re: Rehydration

Postby Mububban » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:09 pm

Are the Torq gels worth paying double over the SIS multi packs from CRC? $4-$5 each vs $2-$3 each
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