Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Forum rules
The information / discussion in the Cycling Health Forum is not qualified medical advice. Please consult your doctor.
fat and old
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby fat and old » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:09 pm

Something I've been meaning to share a while now...

4 and a half years ago I had a few strokes. 4 actually. Turned out that a lifetime of doing everything wrong had it's effects, and I ended up with a basilar artery that had a blockage of 95%. OK, time to change lifestyles. This was realised after the third which was when I actually went to a doctor to find out why I was falling over all of a sudden. Probably two weeks after finding out why I was and was also having trouble remembering things, slurring words etc I had a fourth, and ended up in the stroke ward at the Austin. When you're in these places, the procedure is to wake you up every few hours and go through a litany of tests and questions to make sure you're ok. The nurses at night were quite nice about it and I got used to it pretty quick.

One night, I was woken up at maybe 3.30am or so. I was pretty exhausted and groggy tbh, but I'll never forget this nurse. She had a head scarf on and was kind of tentative; tbh I got a bit of a shock not realising straight away where I was. Did the tests etc half asleep, and then she goes over to the door, looks around the hall and comes back. Say What? I was thinking. She gets close, all shifty like, and tells me that I should use cinnamon on everything, that it's good to help with stroke. But don't tell the doctor she said anything, :lol: She repeated it, and made sure I understood then left. Never saw her again.

Told my wife the next day, and once I was home she started putting cinnamon on everything (lucky I like the stuff :D ). Of course I stopped smoking, changed diet as I could now taste the food I was eating and enjoy it, excersized etc. Took up cycling again. Lost 25 kg's.

3 years later I have a check up. 2% blockage. Maybe 2 people can tell any difference in me pre and post stroke.

Cycling and cinnamon. It's the duck's guts 8) :D

Super Commuter
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:59 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby Super Commuter » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:47 pm

Great work - congratulations!

Not sure if it was all the cinnamon though.... :wink:

What were the dietary changes that got you that level of weight loss? How long did it take to lose 25kg? What was your starting weight? How much cycling have you been doing?

Sorry if they're personal questions but enquiring minds want to know!

If it can happen in that artery it can also happen in coronary arteries... or any of our other arteries for that matter.

fat and old
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby fat and old » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:46 pm

I lived on Bain-marie, coffee and smokes. Worked an average of 20 hrs per day (had 3 crews in rotating shifts.)

No salt, no smokes, no coffee, no soft drinks, no potato chips 75% veg, lotta rice, lentils, chick peas etc built up to 300+ k's p.w. over a few months. Started at 99.5kg (at the time I figured wth? go for 100! :lol: ). Lotta water. 3 different saddles. A few sizes in clothes.

Cold turkey, no issues.

Dunno about the cinnamon...it didn't hurt!

User avatar
Leaf T
Posts: 889
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:22 pm

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby Leaf T » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:47 pm

That's it. I'm swapping from jam donuts to the cinnamon ones now.

Unfortunately, we seem to underestimate the power and potential of nature. When I read of another plant,fungus or animal becoming extinct I wonder what we lost in the way of potential exciting discovery or cure in that loss.

Nobody
Posts: 8454
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby Nobody » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:52 pm

fat and old wrote:Did the tests etc half asleep, and then she goes over to the door, looks around the hall and comes back. Say What? I was thinking. She gets close, all shifty like, and tells me that I should use cinnamon on everything, that it's good to help with stroke. But don't tell the doctor she said anything, :lol: She repeated it, and made sure I understood then left. Never saw her again.

Sad that the medical industry is such that she feels like she's committing a criminal act by giving dietary advice.

When I go to hospital to get bled for haemochomatosis, I often bore the nurses with my dietary changes, how much my cholesterol has lowered (43%) and how much weight I've lost, etc. The medical industry might be able to keep (most of) the nurses quiet, but it can't shut me up. :mrgreen:

User avatar
kb
Posts: 2286
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:22 pm

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby kb » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:04 pm

fat and old wrote:
Dunno about the cinnamon...it didn't hurt!

Probably. High doses of Cassia cinnamon can cause or exacerbate liver problems though.
Image

User avatar
silentC
Posts: 2190
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm
Location: Far South Coast NSW

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby silentC » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:28 pm

Nobody wrote:Sad that the medical industry is such that she feels like she's committing a criminal act by giving dietary advice.

I think that anyone in the medical profession has to be very careful about giving such advice to patients, for various reasons, most of them to do with ethics. There is absolutely no scientific evidence for the health benefits of cinnamon. If it works for you, by all means go ahead and use it. But a person who is within the medical profession is bound by a code of conduct and a nurse telling a patient to use an unproven alternative therapy probably falls outside of it I would say. No harm done, but she was probably at risk of a reprimand or losing her job if caught.
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

Abby
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 11:41 am

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby Abby » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:04 pm

fat and old wrote:I lived on Bain-marie, coffee and smokes. Worked an average of 20 hrs per day (had 3 crews in rotating shifts.)

No salt, no smokes, no coffee, no soft drinks, no potato chips 75% veg, lotta rice, lentils, chick peas etc built up to 300+ k's p.w. over a few months. Started at 99.5kg (at the time I figured wth? go for 100! :lol: ). Lotta water. 3 different saddles. A few sizes in clothes.

Cold turkey, no issues.

Dunno about the cinnamon...it didn't hurt!


I have a feeling that if you made all those changes, but left out the cinnamon, the result would have been the same... ;-)

Nobody
Posts: 8454
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby Nobody » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:31 pm

silentC wrote:There is absolutely no scientific evidence for the health benefits of cinnamon.

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/cinnamon/

Just to be clear. I neither eat cinnamon, nor have specifically recommended eating it.

MDs or nurses giving optimal nutritional advice should be encouraged in the medical industry, since most chronic illnesses are caused by "lifestyle choices" of which poor diet is the major part. However getting optimal nutritional advice - advice that follows the body of scientific findings - should not be expected in the medical industry. There are a couple of reasons:
- Dietary training of MDs is minimal.
- It is against MDs long term financial interests for people to get well. This has a lot to do with the structure of the medical industry which is pay per procedure, rather than payment for achieving long term benefits for their patients. It would be much better financially for my GP if I still had a TC of 6.5 rather than 3.7mmol/L. That way I'd be on statins and I'd need to get my script renewed regularly, plus blood tests etc. The pharmaceutical industry would also benefit from my lack of health.

User avatar
silentC
Posts: 2190
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm
Location: Far South Coast NSW

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby silentC » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:46 am

Your link contains no evidence. That's because there is none. Try this link: https://nccih.nih.gov/health/cinnamon

There is nothing in the "body of scientific findings" that indicates cinnamon for stroke patients. Therefore I would not expect a healthcare professional to prescribe it. Neither would a dietitian, as far as I know. It falls into the category of unproven traditional medicine.

If I was in the medical profession I would find the rest of your post highly offensive. But then I would probably be well used to hearing about the big pharma conspiracy.
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

Abby
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 11:41 am

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby Abby » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:35 pm

Nobody wrote:
silentC wrote:There is absolutely no scientific evidence for the health benefits of cinnamon.

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/cinnamon/

- It is against MDs long term financial interests for people to get well. This has a lot to do with the structure of the medical industry which is pay per procedure, rather than payment for achieving long term benefits for their patients. It would be much better financially for my GP if I still had a TC of 6.5 rather than 3.7mmol/L. That way I'd be on statins and I'd need to get my script renewed regularly, plus blood tests etc. The pharmaceutical industry would also benefit from my lack of health.


While in theory you're right, I personally believe that in practice this is far from the truth. The reality in most parts (not all) of Australia is that there are not enough GP's to cover the population, and hence there is simply no need to treat with the goal of ensuring repeat visits - they are already fully booked as it is! Hence why most GP's I've seen are more interested in treating me in such a way as to get me off the books, as their waiting list is already very long...

This is topic drift, but - a much greater emphasis on positive/preventative health, a more concerted effort in stopping people with everyday viruses turning up for antibiotics, plus your initial point about Drs desperately needing more nutritional/dietary training, would all go a long way to removing that huge demand on theri services... :-)

fat and old
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby fat and old » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:46 pm

silentC wrote:It falls into the category of unproven traditional medicine.


Yep, that's what my wife found, along with heaps of "anecdotal, non peer reviewed stories". She also found evidence that as per Karl's post that stupid excessive use can be bad. So I had a lot :D ....but not too much.

Get told by your neurosurgeon (or whatever the brain guy's called) that there's nothing much that medicine can do (if the blockage decides to have at me), and why not have a go we reckoned. This was not in an area that was a candidate for any stenting etc apparently.

Oh yeah. My jihadi nurse (that's what I first thought by her actions....and I use the term in endearment) made sure that I understood to use the non chinese "Cassia" type. Big diff apparently.

User avatar
silentC
Posts: 2190
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm
Location: Far South Coast NSW

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby silentC » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:28 pm

I'm definitely not saying don't use it, just addressing the point about why she felt cautious about giving the advice.

I know a couple of GPs and they would probably punch you in the nose if you suggested they would deliberately under-service someone in order to ensure return business, which is pretty much what the post I responded to was saying. I'm well aware of the theory many people have concerning the medical 'industry' and how it is to their advantage to keep us all sick. I just feel that this idea does a disservice to all those people who work tirelessly to find cures for diseases and help the people who suffer from them. In fact many doctors provide treatment pro bono, they just don't blow their trumpets about it.

I dunno maybe I'm just a 'sheeple' but I think for the most part they are in it for the right reasons.

Anyway, glad that whatever you've done is working for you!
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

Nobody
Posts: 8454
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby Nobody » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:39 pm

silentC wrote:Your link contains no evidence. That's because there is none. Try this link: https://nccih.nih.gov/health/cinnamon

There is nothing in the "body of scientific findings" that indicates cinnamon for stroke patients.

I never stated it would. What you said was:
silentC wrote:There is absolutely no scientific evidence for the health benefits of cinnamon.

My reply was to "no scientific evidence for the health benefits", nothing about stroke. I do not think the nurses advice was good advice. I said:
Sad that the medical industry is such that she feels like she's committing a criminal act by giving dietary advice.

Incidentally there have been many MDs around the world that have given dietary advice, whether good or bad. Some writing books about it.

silentC wrote:If I was in the medical profession I would find the rest of your post highly offensive. But then I would probably be well used to hearing about the big pharma conspiracy.

People may be offended, but that's just how the system currently works. It's a sick care system, rather than a health care system.

silentC wrote:I know a couple of GPs and they would probably punch you in the nose if you suggested they would deliberately under-service someone in order to ensure return business, which is pretty much what the post I responded to was saying...

I said:
Nobody wrote:However getting optimal nutritional advice - advice that follows the body of scientific findings - should not be expected in the medical industry. There are a couple of reasons:
- Dietary training of MDs is minimal.
- It is against MDs long term financial interests for people to get well. This has a lot to do with the structure of the medical industry which is pay per procedure, rather than payment for achieving long term benefits for their patients. It would be much better financially for my GP if I still had a TC of 6.5 rather than 3.7mmol/L. That way I'd be on statins and I'd need to get my script renewed regularly, plus blood tests etc. The pharmaceutical industry would also benefit from my lack of health.

The way the system currently works lends itself to over-servicing. MDs are doing what they are taught to do, which is medication and procedures. But they aren't the long term solution for damaging lifestyle choices.

User avatar
silentC
Posts: 2190
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm
Location: Far South Coast NSW

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby silentC » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:34 pm

There is no scientific evidence for ANY health benefits from taking cinnamon. Health professionals should limit themselves to evidence-based treatments and leave the witch doctor stuff to others. That's what I would expect. Your dietary advice tangent notwithstanding.
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

fat and old
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby fat and old » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:40 am

silentC wrote:
I know a couple of GPs and they would probably punch you in the nose if you suggested they would deliberately under-service someone in order to ensure return business, which is pretty much what the post I responded to was saying. I'm well aware of the theory many people have concerning the medical 'industry' and how it is to their advantage to keep us all sick. I just feel that this idea does a disservice to all those people who work tirelessly to find cures for diseases and help the people who suffer from them. In fact many doctors provide treatment pro bono, they just don't blow their trumpets about it.

I dunno maybe I'm just a 'sheeple' but I think for the most part they are in it for the right reasons.



Agree on this. Excepting the commercial plastic surgeon types. They thrive on self loathing. :?

I do believe however that a lot of witch doctor stuff that was formed pre-peer revieved literature had a basis in success. A lot of it has dissapeared, and not necessarily for the better. Is my experience with cinnamon in this basket? I guess so.

User avatar
silentC
Posts: 2190
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm
Location: Far South Coast NSW

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby silentC » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:24 am

Well, you know plastic surgery came about during WWI with a desire to try and give some horrifically wounded soldiers some kind of normal life back home. It gets a bad rap due to overuse by Hollywood types but I think Turia Pitt would be an example of someone whose life has been eased greatly by a plastic surgeon.

I pretty sure that a lot of current medicine owes a lot to traditional treatments, no-one is saying that just because it hasn't been proven yet that it doesn't work. It's just that to be accepted as a treatment by the medical profession, the standard is quite high, and rightly so. There are plenty of examples of people dying needlessly because they refused to have their cancer treated by accepted practices for instance. That's where the problem lies. I don't know if you were on any medication, but say you chose to try the herbal route and it made you sicker, there is no control of that. And also not forgetting that herbal medicine is a multi billion-dollar business too...
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

fat and old
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby fat and old » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:29 pm

silentC wrote:Well, you know plastic surgery came about during WWI with a desire to try and give some horrifically wounded soldiers some kind of normal life back home. It gets a bad rap due to overuse by Hollywood types but I think Turia Pitt would be an example of someone whose life has been eased greatly by a plastic surgeon.


Which is why I made the distinction "commercial". Maybe that wasn't clear? :)

I don't know if you were on any medication,


A truck load. Doc reckons he'd prefer to believe that helped 8) :lol:

say you chose to try the herbal route and it made you sicker, there is no control of that


Maybe there's some misunderstanding of my motivation to post. It was merely a "success" story, with cycling as the base. The cinnamon aspect was and is interesting and worth mentioning.

There is no way in hell I'm going to put witch doctors before a God Fearing medico with a degree :lol:

User avatar
Tim
Posts: 1711
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:02 pm
Location: Gippsland Lakes

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby Tim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:49 pm

One of the guys I ride with is a GP.
He practiced for a number of years in the Northern Rivers region of NSW.
A significant portion of his patients were suffering advanced and secondary cancers.
They crawled into his surgery having self-treated and exhausted the naturopath/homeopath/chiro/spiritual healer/witch doctor/herbal tea/cannabis etc etc alternatives.
In his opinion, treated earlier with conventional medicine (and some complimentary therapy) they'd have stood a far better chance of survival.

User avatar
silentC
Posts: 2190
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm
Location: Far South Coast NSW

Re: Strokes, cycling and cinnamon

Postby silentC » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:07 pm

Yes I think F&O was being a little tongue in cheek with his post ;)

I do find some of the traditional medicine things a bit interesting though. For example, how on earth did they come up with ground Rhinoceros horn, which isn't really a horn at all but more akin to fingernails or hair? The mind boggles at the thought process that led to that one. Sadly a lot of people still believe it. Shark fin is another. Humans and their stupid superstitious beliefs...

As for herbal remedies "not doing any harm", ask the guy who needed a liver transplant after taking green tea extract to lose weight!
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users