BNA Losers Club 2018

[Nobody]

Welcome to the BNA Losers Club 2018. A thread for people to post their goal weight/measurements and their progress.


The argument for weighing yourself frequently

A two-year Cornell study, recently published in the Journal of Obesity, found that frequent self-weighing and tracking results on a chart were effective for both losing weight and keeping it off, especially for men.

The method “forces you to be aware of the connection between your eating and your weight,”

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2015/06 ... your-favor

In conclusion, although there were methodological limitations to the studies reviewed, there was ample evidence for the consistent and significant positive relationship between self-monitoring diet, physical activity or weight and successful outcomes related to weight management.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3268700/


Waist Measurement and Waist to Height Ratio (WHtR)
Waist measurement is a more important general health indicator than weight/BMI due to usually being proportional to the amount of visceral (internal) fat one carries. Visceral fat is dangerous because it's metabolically/hormonally active. There is a strong relationship between the amount of visceral fat one carries and chronic diseases. Weight/BMI doesn't tell the whole story of fat loss, often due to increased muscle weight. Also particularly tall or short people are misrepresented by BMI. BMI was originally designed to study populations, not individuals. That is why I post waist and waist to height ratio (WHtR). WHtR is beneficial for others to know at what stage of weight loss you are at by body shape.
To make it easier to post WHtR, I've added a calculator link below. Although the ratio is easy to calculate since it's just your waist circumference divided by your height. It should be measured at the circumference point half way between your bottom rib and the top of your hip bone. This is typically about 2.5 cm above your belly button.
WHtR calculator.
The best time to take a waist measurement and measure weight is first thing in the morning.



Some information on waist to height ratio (WHtR) and why it's better than BMI for indicating health:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/265215.php
http://ashwell.uk.com/images/2005%20IJF ... 0Hsieh.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22106927
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio


Weight and Body Mass Index (BMI)
There is no problem with just posting weights alone, but it doesn't mean much to others. The same applies with waist measurements. So if you want others to know at what stage of weight loss you're at, I encourage you to give a height reference or calculate the BMI.
To make it easier to post body mass index (BMI), I've added a BMI calculator link below. To calculate manually, it is your weight (W) in kg, divided by the square of your height (Ht) in metres, or BMI = W / Ht^2.
BMI calculator.
feet/inches to cm converter.
The best time to measure your weight is first thing in the morning.


Diet, exercise, or both for weight loss?
The three main factors that influence weight/waist are genetics, diet and exercise. Being a cycling forum, most will try to increase their exercise to lose weight. The study below shows that diet is 78% and exercise is 22% of the weight loss equation. Both significant diet change and exercise together is obviously better.
The following is from a the American Institute for Cancer Research blog which summarises a recent study comparing diet and exercise in weight loss.

After 12 months, women in the exercise group lost 2.4% of their body weight; diet only reduced by 8.5% and those exercising and dieting lost 10.8% of their weight. And the more they lost, the more their biomarkers were reduced.

http://blog.aicr.org/2016/07/15/study-l ... more-18206


The Diet Thread is available to discuss diet, or if you have any questions relating to diet..

What Goal Weight?

The answer to that question depends on a number of factors. But if your aim is to get healthier then it may be better to set the weight goal low. An example of this is Kempner's ideal weight for height chart below. Back in the late 1930s, Kempner was the inventor of the Rice Diet to treat - or in some cases even reverse - a number of chronic diseases before medications were used by MDs. As you can see, the ideal weights he set for his patients are very low, but achievable for most.



A Basic Diet Guide

For revision simplification, I have moved this guide to the first post in the Diet Thread.

[Nobody]

History from Sept 2013:
Waist 90cm, WHtR 0.52
82 kg, BMI 27.7

Today:
Waist 77.5 cm, WHtR 0.448
65.3 kg, BMI 22.0

Goals:
Waist < 75cm, so WHtR < 0.434
Weight = 64 kg.

Not much of a goal. But since I'm already considered under ideal weight for my height and also lifting (a bit), I don't expect to lose much weight. I still think I could lose a kilo or two of fat and some waist size though. I'm also 50 yo this month, so I shouldn't expect too much progress in anything.

[Patt0]

Thanks Nobody.


5 Jan

Height=183cm
WtHtr = 0.44
Weight=80kg
Waist= 79cm

My goal, steady 75kg.

Plan, restrict and suffer this month and find equilibrium after I reach 74kg.

[RobertL]

Date Height Weight Waist BMI WtHR
06/01/2017 189.5 108.2 112 30.13 0.59
25/01/2017 189.5 107.8 111 30.02 0.59
16/02/2017 189.5 106.8 110 29.74 0.58
03/04/2017 189.5 105.9 107 29.49 0.56
01/06/2017 189.5 105.3 106 29.32 0.56
13/07/2017 189.5 104.6 105 29.13 0.55
07/08/2017 189.5 103.7 105 28.88 0.55
04/09/2017 189.5 102.1 104 28.43 0.55
22/11/2017 189.5 101.6 103 28.29 0.54
04/01/2018 189.5 100.7 102 28.04 0.54

That's after starting at about 120kg in mid-2015.

I had hoped to be sub-100kg by the end of 2017, but I don't mind missing that target by a kilo or so.

Future goals:

1. Weight <100kg. Not really a big target from here.

2. WtHR <0.5. A bit hard to predict, but I need to get my weight down to about 95 or 96 kg to do so.

3. Weight <90kg. This would be an absolute "stretch goal". It would be a nice round figure. It would get my BMI down out of the "overweight" category. It would also make me 3/4 of the man I was when I started.

[CKinnard]

ht 186cm

1/1/2018, and goal
wt 88kg, 75kg
wst/ht 0.56, 0.45

plan:
strictly no alcohol
reduce caffeine
PBWF diet.
early nights (before 10pm) and early mornings
better stress mgt
socializing more so with like mindeds
more calming activities - walks, reading by the bay.
cycle <4-6hrs/week
kick start the year with 7 day water fast (this helps to resensitize taste buds easing salt and sweet cravings, ease hunger pangs, and improve insulin sensitivity....all this is good for controlling appetite)

[rapunzel]

Curious, Nobody - have you seen any info differentiating female / male WHtR? I have previously seen guidelines showing different danger zones for each gender, but that is at the upper limit. The posted chart and things I've looked at don't go into it. Females can realistically have pretty small waists and end up in the 'be careful' zone or 'healthy' zone but not actually be very healthy, or be perfectly healthy and warned that they are not.

Edit - and sorry, posting here as the info is above, but this is a bit more geared to another thread... happy for it to be moved wherever you like

[Calvin27]

Lost 2.5kg over christmas period doing nothing but eating and drinking.

Got on the bike and realized what I had actually lost.

[TheWall]

Know that feeling Calvin27.

Interesting chart. At 192cm I was 118kg in June 2014 (size 40) and am now 92kg still shooting for the 90kg goal weight. For the record I was at 98kg at the beginning of 2017 and also at the beginning of Oct17 after a month on holidays (Sth Africans REALLY like their food!). At the beginning I was still firmly in the yellow zone but now sweetly in the green.

My issue is that I have been at 92kg before but my body seems to 'reject' the lower weight and range and I am noticeably hungrier and I bounce back up to 94ish very easily. Grrr...

Open to ideas...

[Nobody]

My issue is that I have been at 92kg before but my body seems to 'reject' the lower weight and range and I am noticeably hungrier and I bounce back up to 94ish very easily. Grrr...

Open to ideas...

Beside all the psychological factors that CK informs us of and sleep, your weight "set point" is a function of diet quality, genetics and exercise. So with the current volume and intensity of exercise, plus the quality of your diet is defining your "set point". Another factor may be that you lost weight too fast and shocked your body into reacting.

The easiest lever to pull is diet since nearly everyone's diet in AU has plenty of room for improvement. So I suggest you read the diet guide above and try to implement more of it. Change gradually and your body may hardly notice. I proved it works (for me) in late 2016 when I got down to a BMI lower than 20 and a WHtR of less than 0.42. I did that by implementing almost all the guide, plus lowering fat and protein to minimum (safe) levels.

More exercise is often a big ask, but can work. Just don't do it to a level of volume and/or intensity that it overly stresses the body. Since then you'll start to lose sleep.

[ldrcycles]

Started the year at 96kgs, at 6'2 that is hardly obese but there is a little gut there I'm not happy with. My target is 75kg, not so much in and of itself, but because getting to that weight will require the level of fitness i want to achieve my goals on the bike. Nothing drastic diet wise, just restricted portions and plenty of veg.

[ldrcycles]

Down 4.5kg for the first week, very pleased with that

[warthog1]

49 yo
186cm
78kg
Target 75ish kg
a bit less meat maybe
a bit less grog if I feel like it. 3 or 4 beers is a big drink for me, but I did that last night whilst cooking the bbq because I felt like it.
Plenty of coffee still (I enjoy it and care not that it is a stimulant, I haven't read any conclusive evidence of its' deleterious health effects)
a few more ks on the bike. 8k km last year, down from 17.5 4 years ago.

I lack the motivation to make wholesale changes to my diet but I eat more fruit and veg than the average and far less sugary crud or fast food than average too.

[CKinnard]

Just ended a 7 day fast. the scales say I am down 7kg, but less than 2kg would be fat, the rest water, reduced intestinal contents, and lean tissue. glycogen.

Warty, you are right the science is neutral on adverse effects of coffee. However, it is known to lift you, then drop you ~2 hours or more after, when insulin sensitivity can be reduced thereby causing hunger. And many people who use stimulants in the morning are more inclined to use depressants/relaxants (alcohol) in the evening. The more informed doctors I know do not recommend coffee on this basis. Nevertheless, it's a habit I still enjoy, and have difficulty breaking. But will attempt to do so in 2018.

[warthog1]

Thanks CK.
I doesn't seem to make me hungry.
I don't need to take alcohol to sleep.
In fact, I find alcohol negatively impacts on the quality and quantity of my sleep.
I have a coffee grinder and espresso machine at home.
I take great pleasure in it and plan to continue it.
It is something my wife and I share and it is net positive imo.
Neither of us drink it after midday.

[warthog1]

With respect to sleep rotating shift work is what effects me the most.
We do 2 14hr night shifts followed by 2 10 hr day shifts and 3 days off.
I find I sometimes need to take a restavit on the first night of sleep after the night shifts.
It is getting worse as I get older.
I plan to get a prescription for melatonin and try that next.
I am building a medical case for a flexible work agreement after 55 to cease nightshift.
It is a class 2a carcinogen and associated with shorter life expectancy and higher rates of chronic disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2954516/

[ldrcycles]

I've sworn off ever working nights again, doing 11pm-5am shifts at a service station had such horrendous effects on me physically and mentally.

[CKinnard]

Warty, try to catch the last 12 minutes of this vid.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5m1ks3

It's a Michael Mosley doc, on sleep. Screened for first time last night on Channel 9.

There's growing evidence diet influences sleep more than ever believed before.
This time, it is via feeding the microbiome appropriately, so they create molecules (short chain fatty acids) that help us relax and sleep.
The food that helps they mentioned are most types of legumes, but especially lentils and chickpeas.

There's also a prebiotic powder supplement that includes galactooligosaccharides (which come from legumes) that is more concentrated. The brand used in the UK by Mosley was Bimuno Daily Powder, but there's other brands available in Oz.

I am not one to believe in a cure all pill, but think there's merit in trialing increased legume intake and maybe a prebiotic for a month.

Either way, my gf is a shift worker and she eats very healthy, and still gets crabby and has to be disciplined with her sleep hygiene.

[warthog1]

Warty, try to catch the last 12 minutes of this vid.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5m1ks3

It's a Michael Mosley doc, on sleep. Screened for first time last night on Channel 9.

There's growing evidence diet influences sleep more than ever believed before.
This time, it is via feeding the microbiome appropriately, so they create molecules (short chain fatty acids) that help us relax and sleep.
The food that helps they mentioned are most types of legumes, but especially lentils and chickpeas.

There's also a prebiotic powder supplement that includes galactooligosaccharides (which come from legumes) that is more concentrated. The brand used in the UK by Mosley was Bimuno Daily Powder, but there's other brands available in Oz.

I am not one to believe in a cure all pill, but think there's merit in trialing increased legume intake and maybe a prebiotic for a month.

Either way, my gf is a shift worker and she eats very healthy, and still gets crabby and has to be disciplined with her sleep hygiene.

I will do thanks.
It is the rotational part of the shift work that is killing me.
Sleep quality commonly declines with age I believe. We still need it but it is harder to get.
I have been doing shift work for 16 years and my diet and BMI is better now than it was when I started.
My sleep quality is way worse though. I have trouble getting to sleep and when my bladder wakes me after I've got there I have trouble getting back again.
I have older colleagues who are no longer doing night shift. They are expressing a dramatic improvement in their well-being physically, mentally and emotionally.

[warthog1]

Either way, my gf is a shift worker and she eats very healthy, and still gets crabby and has to be disciplined with her sleep hygiene.

My wife doesn't do shift work and is crabby also. Not sure what to blame that on

[CKinnard]

Your rotations are rubbish! I don't know how the company gets away with that. It transgresses most of the guidelines I am aware of. Personally I think shift workers should stay on the same shift times for at least 4 weeks, before changing. Though the many shift workers I've spoken to haven't necessarily agreed. I agree with you it is the jilt of rotating from day to night that is what stresses the body, and mind...

Yes I am sure my gf would laugh and smile more if she wasn't thinking about her next shift all the time. she really lets go when she has 2 or more weeks vacation.

[Nobody]

7 days since last post.

Waist 77.5 cm, WHtR 0.448 - same
64.9 kg, BMI 21.7 - down 0.4

Goals:
Waist < 75cm
Weight = 64 kg

[nemo57]

With respect to sleep rotating shift work is what effects me the most.
We do 2 14hr night shifts followed by 2 10 hr day shifts and 3 days off.
I find I sometimes need to take a restavit on the first night of sleep after the night shifts.
It is getting worse as I get older.
I plan to get a prescription for melatonin and try that next.
I am building a medical case for a flexible work agreement after 55 to cease nightshift.
It is a class 2a carcinogen and associated with shorter life expectancy and higher rates of chronic disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2954516/

You don't need me to tell you how hideous rotating shift work is. Melatonin doesn't require prescription in the US, and you can import it from there without trouble - at least that's my wife's experience.
Available from iherb.com (she says they're usually the cheapest) or vitaminshoppe.com

[tcdev]

Well back again for another round after giving up tracking any real weight loss about half way through 2017. Although I did lose a few kg overall for the year, and doubled the number of km on the bike I did the previous year, a very lax diet saw most of that potential blown away. At least I didn't go backwards!

Having achieved (much) more than I originally planned on the bike for 2017, I've decided this year to set my weight loss goals in terms of cycling. What I mean is, I'm aiming this year for an FTP of 2.5W/kg (according to my dumb trainer). At my current weight, that would be almost impossible to achieve within the number of hours I can dedicate to cycling, but if I lose about 10kg it should just be doable. So I'm turning this around now and rather than using cycling to attain my weight loss goal, I'm using weight loss to (help) attain my cycling goal!

I only set my cycling (distance) goal 10% higher this year, so I'm confident I know what's involved and how to achieve it. However I also know that meeting that goal alone won't go far towards losing the weight I need to lose - a trap that my rational mind already knew but my subconscious still held out for! No such self-delusion this year; my focus will be first and foremost on diet.

Anyway, quite excited about it all this year and very interested to see if this new approach means better success for me!

Starting weight 01/01/2018 - 95kg. (FTP 2W/kg)
Goal (FTP 2.5W/kg). Estimated weight 85kg!

[warthog1]

With respect to sleep rotating shift work is what effects me the most.
We do 2 14hr night shifts followed by 2 10 hr day shifts and 3 days off.
I find I sometimes need to take a restavit on the first night of sleep after the night shifts.
It is getting worse as I get older.
I plan to get a prescription for melatonin and try that next.
I am building a medical case for a flexible work agreement after 55 to cease nightshift.
It is a class 2a carcinogen and associated with shorter life expectancy and higher rates of chronic disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2954516/

You don't need me to tell you how hideous rotating shift work is. Melatonin doesn't require prescription in the US, and you can import it from there without trouble - at least that's my wife's experience.
Available from iherb.com (she says they're usually the cheapest) or vitaminshoppe.com

Championne

Thanks mate

Just ordered some 3mg tablets through iherb.com

[CKinnard]

Championne

Thanks mate

Just ordered some 3mg tablets through iherb.com

Let us know how it goes Warty.
My clinical view is results are highly variable. The lit. says people get to sleep better, but are not aided cognitively...and benefit diminishes after a few days.