Thai-errs

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Thai-errs

Postby Gabe » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:50 pm

If reverse-mounted, can tyres slip more than usual? I'm finding that the stock tyres, michelin 2.00 wild racers, are slipping quite a lot on the loose stuff. Or more specifically, when I'm pedalling up a steep incline the rear wheel will slip badly unless I lean right back on it, but when I do that the front wheel lifts off even if I pedal quite carefully. It does also feel a bit twitchy in the corners - but again only on loose surface. Great on tarmac and packed dirt. And I noticed when I had a look at the rims that whoever put the bike together failed quite significantly by mounting the rear tyre the wrong way around, and I am obviously going to have to pull the wheel out and re-mount it - but I was wondering just how much difference it would make, because if the improvement is only small (which I expect) then I want to get some chunkier tyres right away. I don't know much about tyres so I was hoping to get some up-to-date info about the best choices. Even if remounting the tyre does help I will probably be buying new ones fairly soon anyway just because I want maximum grip, but I'll wait until a good deal pops up.
Oh and also, I'm not running on high pressure. They're not really wobbly or anything (I don't want a pinch flat), but I have it so the tyres bulge noticeably when I sit on the saddle. I will do a quick very low pressure run tomorrow however, just out of interest.
I've noticed that tubeless is becoming quite popular, so that might be an option. The rims are mavic xm 117, are they suitable/recommendable for tubeless? More importantly, what are good off-road wheels that perform going up steep gravel slopes and over roots and ruts? There's quite a lot of choice and my focus is really on rough track use, since I still have a HT that I use for everything else.
Thanks
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by BNA » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:08 pm

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Re: Thai-errs

Postby Uncle Grumpy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:08 pm

Phew, I thought you meant an Error made in Thailand then. You know, the sort where you thought it was a girl, but it wasn't. Anyway, on with the show...

Some tyres are front or rear specific, some are made to be run in one direction or other depending on whether you run them front or rear, and some it just doesn't matter. Those latter ones look the same no matter which way you point them.

I'm not familiar with those Michelins, so I can't say.

Check the sidewall, there may be an arrow which states the direction.

What pressures do you run? Too high and you might be getting sketchy, too low and you run the risk on pinch flatting. MTB is a lot about getting the weight right to balance the bike, keep traction, keep the front down, look cool, feel right etc. And also your cornering technique might need some refining on the loose stuff. Tyre recommendations get to be fairly specific to conditions. What works in one part of Australia with buffed singletrack won't play nice in another with sharp rocks. Eventually you work out your "go to" tyre that suits you.

Maybe go up a bit in tyre size, perhaps a 2.2 on the front and a 2.1 on the rear. Tyre sizes are nominal, what is a 2.2 in one brand might be equivalent to a 2.0 in another. I'm a big fan of Continentals, particularly the Race King 2.2. Maxxis make a good range, Crossmarks or Larsens for XC, though they have a big range to wade through. Again, you need something that suits your riding style and where your ride. And go tubeless, set up a proper UST tyre with a Stans NoTubes conversion. I know I'm starting to sound like an informercial here, but tubeless lets you run lower pressures so you get better traction.

That help at all?

Grumps
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Re: Thai-errs

Postby trailgumby » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:14 pm

Uncle Grumpy wrote:Phew, I thought you meant an Error made in Thailand then. You know, the sort where you thought it was a girl, but it wasn't. Anyway, on with the show...

:lol: :lol: :lol: Too much information :oops: :lol:
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Re: Thai-errs

Postby trailgumby » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:37 pm

Anything with a low tread height and close spaced knobs designed primarily for hardpack is going to struggle on the loose stuff - they don't penetrate the fines to what's below. I have a set of Michelin XCR Dry2's on the hardtail, and they move around a LOT. But they do roll quite well. 8)

Currently I have an Ignitor front (2.35) and Larsen rear (2.0) both UST on the dually and they served me very well at the recent Back Yamma Bigfoot (read about it on the BNA home page) where the trail was very loose. I'm about to try a set of Schwalbes - Nobby Nic 2.25 up front with a Racing Ralph 2.1, which I've heard are good.

The principle is the front tyre is your control tyre, so you want to err on the side of more grip there. The rear has more weight on it, so a lower a rolling resistance tyre there has more impact on your bike speed.

XM117's can definitely be converted to tubeless use. I'd recommend the Bontrager teflon rim strips and compatible valves. I was amazed how painless the conversion was - didn't even need soapy water to get them to air up, and no sealant was required to get them to stay up (Maxxis UST rubber as noted above). I've since installed sealant for peace of mind.

I hope this is useful.
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Re: Thai-errs

Postby Gabe » Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:29 am

Looks like my last post in this thread randomly disappeared, I also tried to post again sometime later but that post never show up in the first place.. 3rd time lucky I hope.

Well anyway, all the info has been incredibly helpful, and I've decided on UST and narrowed my choices down to only a couple of tyres. My LBS actually has UST larsens and crossmarks for $55 each (the larsen's may have been slightly cheaper, i forget), so I'm considering buying from there in which case I might go crossmark front and larsen rear.
I think I'm gonna wait until autumn though, in summer I usually go night riding on lighter trails or bike paths just to keep out of the heat, and the cost of making the switch encourages me to put it off a bit longer and keep an eye out for bargains. It's a whole lot more expensive than just a new set of tubed tyres.

As for the original problem of traction on my wild racers, I switched the rear around to face the right way and ran on fairly low pressure, squishing the tyres to what I felt I could get away with. The traction improved, but it's obvious those tyres weren't designed for loose, rough surfaces. I really need more traction on the steep ascents, and the bike is also still a bit jittery on fast descents over gravel, and that is not a very nice feeling. I've got a row of scars on my forearm from being thrown onto gravel at only moderate speed ten years ago, it's not my idea of a good time. But the tyres should be fine for summer, they're good on tarmac and light trails, and by the time I'm back on the rough stuff I will have hopefully found some good deals on the stuff I need.

So thanks for all the help, I really didn't know much about tyres until now so the info has been very useful! I'll be posting again when I have the new tyres, whenever that may be.
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Re: Thai-errs

Postby Uncle Grumpy » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:20 am

Gabe wrote:Looks like my last post in this thread randomly disappeared, I also tried to post again sometime later but that post never show up in the first place.. 3rd time lucky I hope.........So thanks for all the help, I really didn't know much about tyres until now so the info has been very useful! I'll be posting again when I have the new tyres, whenever that may be.


Ahhh, the great server crash of November 2010, lots of posts were lost.

Remember, it's only rubber, it wears out and you try something different. Soon enough you'll have an idea of what works for you. Happy trails!

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Re: Thai-errs

Postby flashrider » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:53 pm

The stock Michelins on my Trance were fuffing tripe, recycle them and buy some Nevegals. W.A. has lot of bauxite trails with honky nuts on top, think rock marbles on cap rock with wood marbles thrown in, and the Nevegals are great IMO. Worth a shot if you can get a set for a reasonable amount.
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Re: Thai-errs

Postby Gabe » Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:18 pm

The nevegals do look like great tyres, but they aren't available as UST. Would it be worth doing a conversion with non-UST tyres if I could get them at a bargain? They are a fair bit cheaper but I imagine there would have to be disadvantages, otherwise surely manufacturers wouldn't bother with UST in the first place..? I'll consider any options and I have plenty of time to decide, but I definitely want something that will perform and that I will be happy with
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Re: Thai-errs

Postby MountGower » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:19 pm

Gabe

There is fair amount of BS in the bicycle industry. Don't assume that just because the UST system is available, that it is neccessary. The majority of people running tubeless MTBs are not using UST wheels and tyres. I have run three different standard tyres tubeless on two different rims. I've used both split tubes aswell as tape and valve and had no trouble. Keep your pressure to 30psi and below and you will be OK.

If you want a large volume of feedback about your specific combination of wheel and tyre, you should get plenty from mtbr.

In the end there's plenty of ways to convert to tubeless and the one that is best for you is really the one that allows you to look ahead and see riders coming the other way instead of staring at the ground. It's as much about your head as it is about the grip etc.

For what it's worth there are plenty of people on mtbr using the Nevegal tubeless on all kinds of rims by all the ways you can imagine. Check it out.

Cheers.
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