To UST or not to UST?

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To UST or not to UST?

Postby Jean » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:45 pm

Hi,

Working on my new 29er build I'm keen to go tubeless, but agonising over which rim path to take. Do I go the ZTR/Stans route and stick with 'normal' beaded tyres, or go the UST/'Tubeless ready' route?

The ZTR route offers more tyre options and cheaper tyres, but the UST/'Tubeless ready' standard seems to be getting traction and the tyres are getting more common - I suspect that the UST system is going to become the MTB standard. The UST/tubeless rims I'm eyeing off are considerably cheaper than the ZTRs, but of course the tyres are more expensive. I do get the vibe that the UST/tubeless route will have a lot less faffing about involved though - one hopes :roll:

The main rim choices (today anyway) are ZTR Arch EX, the WTB TCS i19 or i23, and maybe the Syncros FL DS25 if I can find out some more about them and/or someone who stocks them.

Anyone used both systems, or a keen proponent/detractor of either?

Cheers
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by BNA » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:50 pm

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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby trailgumby » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:50 pm

*Much* less faffing about with UST rubber on UST rims, although you will need a good set of tyre levers as they're often very tight. I use and recommend the yellow Michelin levers. The upside is you can run less pressure before the fear of burping your rubber off the rim becomes a reality.

Option 2 is to use the Bontrager rim strips with UST tyres. The Bontrager strips roughly mimic the UST inner rim profile, and are dramatically easier to get to bead up than Stan's rim strips ... which I will never use again. Even with a compressor, I find Stan's and non-tubeless kevlar bead tyres tricky to get to air up, and the concentrated soapy water trick is mandatory.

On the upside with non-UST tyres, they're much lighter run tubeless which equates to less effort to spin up and slow down on the twisty stuff. The downside is greater susceptibility to sidewall cuts and punctures, and burping off. So I'd say "tubeless ready" (that is, UST bead and porous sidewalls that require goop to seal) are probably the best compromise for trails that aren;t rocky.

For Sydney sandstone trails I prefer the full-fat UST variety, the rocks that stick up out of the trail surface are frequent. However, I admit to a liking for the lightest full UST I can readily get, being Schwalbe.
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby Mugglechops » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:38 pm

I run UST tyres on UST rims with no sealant down to about 20psi without any issues. Been this way for 12 months. I have bought sealant now as I think my luck will run out shortly.

My other bike has Bontrager rims and I am just waiting to get the rim strips and run them tubeless with sealant with a Bontager front tyre and a kevlar beaded Maxxis Crossmark on the back.
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby Baldy » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:00 pm

I had my 2008 Trek 6700 converted a while back, it has Bontrager Ranger rims/wheels. But my new LBS is a Specialized dealer so they used Roval tubeless rim tape and their "2bliss" ready tires. The naming is a bit odd but the series is called Control and I have a Purgatory on the front and The Captain on the back.

I'm about 67kg and run them at 25psi. Can go lower but I reckon 25 will make sure they stay on and they grip like all heck now anyway. Both are 2.0inch. I cant compare them to many other tires because I have only ridden 3 in recent years. Some kind of Bontragers that came on it and Kenda Nevigals. I used to run them at 35psi+[up to 50-60 if I was doing more road than offroad :roll: ] The new ones are so much better its crazy, even at 35psi which is what I rode them at to begin with.

Its another option for you anyway. 8)
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby Mugglechops » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:52 pm

Surely at your weight Baldy you could 2.5psi :D
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby Baldy » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:21 pm

:lol:

The bloke who put them on[I dont have a compressor] said dont run them too low. I think they were a bit tricky to fit/get right due to the rims not holding the tires as well as some others do. I have gone down to 20 a couple of times with no problem. Other than feeling even more sluggish on the road.
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby Mugglechops » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:46 pm

My UST ones went on easy and pumped up and sealed straight away. With 2.5in tyres I can get away with low pressure even at 120kgs.
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby Fred Nurk » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:34 pm

After much mucking around with non UST and rim strip kits, I've since bought a UST wheelset. Its like night and day.

Proper UST tyres aren't as common as normal tyres, but more are coming out, including the Geax range that are 'TNT', UST bead with porous sidewalls. Downside is getting the tyre off (this includes normal tyres running tubes, they're harder to remove), but overall the experience is better.
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby drubie » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:56 pm

I'm a bit curious about this myself - I generally run a (heavy) slime tube but I bought some new wheels the other day not thinking of tubeless compatibility (stupid).

So, the consensus is the conversion kits are sketchy?
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but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby trailgumby » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:10 pm

I'd rate the Bontrager rim strips pretty highly, almost as good as a UST rim if you use UST tyres.

The others, yeah not so impressed. At least with Stans you can take out the valve core without having to remove the tyre bead if you want to top up the fluid, so there is some concession to practicality I suppose, but on the Thursday night before the Mont I was one attempt away from admitting defeat and putting back the worn-out UST Ignitor on the youngster's bike.
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby drubie » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:29 pm

trailgumby wrote:I'd rate the Bontrager rim strips pretty highly, almost as good as a UST rim if you use UST tyres.

The others, yeah not so impressed. At least with Stans you can take out the valve core without having to remove the tyre bead if you want to top up the fluid, so there is some concession to practicality I suppose, but on the Thursday night before the Mont I was one attempt away from admitting defeat and putting back the worn-out UST Ignitor on the youngster's bike.


OK, good to know TG. I'll go bontrager if I can find them.
So we get the leaders we deserve and we elect, we get the companies and the products that we ask for, right? And we have to ask for different things. – Paul Gilding
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby m@ » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:19 pm

drubie wrote:OK, good to know TG. I'll go bontrager if I can find them.

That's the challenge... UK shops won't ship to Aus, and the only Aus online store I found that stocks won't take online order :?
harmonix1234 wrote:Forecast for Hobart next week is rain, sleet, ice and all kinds of hell.
HTFU harmonix.
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby Mugglechops » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:59 am

My local Trek store is geting them for my 29er. $18 each
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby Jean » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:16 pm

Well UST/tubeless ready is scooping the pool - which confirms the way I was beginning to lean anyway. I was dead keen on some white rims though and I can't find any white UST/Tubeless ready rims anywhere - oh well, form must follow function.
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Re: To UST or not to UST?

Postby silentbutdeadly » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:55 am

The Anthem runs Crank Bros Cobalts with Geax AKA tubeless tyres...once I actually got the tyres on (damn tight) it was a doddle to get them sealed up.

However, the Cannondale runs tubes and plain old Kenda Small Block - yet the tubes are filled with a 70:30 mix of NoTubes and Slime Tyre Sealant (not tube sealant).

Both systems work equally well. The Geax tubeless tyres weigh quite a bit more than their equivalent non-tubeless folder. But the advantage of the tubeless tyre is the stronger sidewall...at least in my mind. Makes the trail feel more progressive and reduces the risk of pinch flats (tubes or otherwise).

So...I'd vote for tubeless tyres regardless of the wheel system. And if you can't got tubeless because of the wheel system...don't panic - go tubes with sealant. Works a treat.
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