whats better, and why?

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whats better, and why?

Postby mick243 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:41 pm

I'm about to get a new MTB - have narrowed my choice to an avanti aggressor 29er, but the question is do I go the .1 or the .2

http://www.avantibikes.com/au/bikes/mou ... ifications

or

http://www.avantibikes.com/au/bikes/mou ... ifications


yes I know the fork on the .2 is a little better, what I dont know is about the gearset or brakes....

whats the difference (in the real world, not from a spec sheet) between

for brakes

Avid Elixir 3 Hydraulic Disc, 180/160mm Rotors
and
Shimano M446 Hydraulic Disc, 180/160mm Rotors


for gear sets

FD Sram X-5
RD Sram X-9
shifters Sram X-5 30-Speed
crankset Sram S1000 GXP 44/33/22T
and
FD Shimano Alivio
RD Shimano SLX Shadow
shifters Shimano Alivio 27-Speed
crankset Shimano M430 Octalink 44/32/22T
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by BNA » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:11 pm

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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby trailgumby » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:11 pm

I'd go the better model.

I'm not really a fan of the Elixir brakes, they can be good but they can also suck - quality is a bit variable. However, if they suck then your local bike shop is in the frame to take the pain away... becomes their problem not yours. The Shimanos would probably perform a little better. However, getting metallic pads for that model may be a challenge, and resin pads don;t last long.

The package overall on the 2 is the better one. Fork will be smoother, lighter and stiffer, and the cranks will be stiffer and shift better, and your experience on the trail will be more enjoyable.
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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby silentbutdeadly » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:41 am

The .2 is a much better equipped bike given the Recon Gold fork but there's not much to whinge about with a XC32 either - just isn't as adjustable. The drivetrain has little to separate the two apart from the 2 being a 10 speed and the 1 being a 9.

That said I can vouch for the fact that X-5 shifters aren't great, the SRAM crankset is an orphan and the BB is awful. The Avid brakes are 6 of one and a half dozen of the other - I don't mind them. I fixed mine with an X-7 rear shifter ($40) and an Shimano SLX crank & Hollowtech BB ($120).

The Shimano driveline isn't too bad (especially with an SLX RD) and is typically less fiddly than the SRAM - better SLX or XT shifters would improve the experience...other than that it should be fine.

Unless you are intermediate grade or want to ride big bumpy stuff then go with the .1 and upgrade as things wear out or get damaged...
Ours is not to reason why...merely to point and giggle
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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby trailgumby » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:35 pm

Have the X5's not improved? They were adequate but ordinary (bit of effort required to shift on the front der.) on my first ever mtb in 2006, surely they must be better by now?

My son's first dually, a Mongoose Otero had Alivio shifters and I thought they sucked worse, especially the front shifter. *Very* heavy on the effort, leaving me prone to RSI on my left thumb. It was typically too much for my then 13yo son, who tended to just leave it in the granny ring.

I'd still be inclined to go the .2... how much is the price difference?
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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby silentbutdeadly » Wed May 01, 2013 10:47 am

The X5 shifters are adequate but the X7 is a night and day comparison for very little extra. Either way the X5 is still nicer than the Alivio shifters. I still run the X5 shift on the front but switched the rear and am enjoying it.

Price difference at retail is $350. 29.1 is $1300 while the .2 is $1650. But in the real world...1 is a grand while the 2 is $1,200. Neither strikes me as a bargain even at that price
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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby trailgumby » Wed May 01, 2013 7:42 pm

True, but at least with the .2 it should be more reliable and require less maintenance.

I used to be forever wrenching (it seemed) on my entry level bike. Now that I've switched to XT everything on both, they just ... run. Maybe I change pads and derailleur cables once a year, so long as I keep them clean. Love it :)
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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed May 01, 2013 8:23 pm

Got to love XT :)

I just think the modern external bb cups are crap. Being back the square taper IMO

However there is nothing you could do to make me give up my XT ice tech disc brakes. Absolutely the best brake I have used.
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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby silentbutdeadly » Thu May 02, 2013 10:06 am

singlespeedscott wrote:Got to love XT :)

I just think the modern external bb cups are crap. Being back the square taper IMO


With you both on the XT but am reminded of the often overlooked SLX group as well.

Funnily enough...the only external bb cups I've ever had grief with were the SRAM GXP...but then I've never had luck with any of the SRAM/Truvative BBs regardless of type. The Shimano ones have been fine - both as BSA and Pressfit

Square taper has never gone away...even in these weird days of 11 spd. It just requires more thought.
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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby trailgumby » Thu May 02, 2013 1:12 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:Got to love XT :)

I just think the modern external bb cups are crap.

With you there on FSA. The bearings die so quickly.

On the other hand, my XT ones have been excellent so far. I'm just really annoyed that FSA crank spindles are a couple of hundredths of a millimitre too big to fit XT BB's. So, goodbye FSA cranks and your BB rubbish seal design. :x

At least with XT cranks, if the BB dies quickly on the commuter I can then fit a Hope BB...
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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby Jean » Thu May 02, 2013 2:54 pm

trailgumby wrote:I used to be forever wrenching (it seemed) on my entry level bike. Now that I've switched to XT everything on both, they just ... run. Maybe I change pads and derailleur cables once a year, so long as I keep them clean. Love it :)


Same here! I was always mucking about with my 9-speed SLX (which I wouldn't say was really 'entry level'), but with my 10-speed XT it just runs - no faff whatsoever.

With the latest Shimano stuff I'd maybe go down to SLX brakes, but only because the difference between the XT and SLX brakes seems very minimal. For the drive train, XT all the way. With my On-One Inbred I was concerned about the external under the BB gear cable run, but the gears haven't batted an eyelid - excellent stuff. I'm sticking with good Shimano cables in the future on my MTB too, no more after market stuff for me.
Last edited by Jean on Thu May 02, 2013 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby Summernight » Thu May 02, 2013 2:54 pm

trailgumby wrote: I'm just really annoyed that FSA crank spindles are a couple of hundredths of a millimitre too big to fit XT BB's. So, goodbye FSA cranks and your BB rubbish seal design. :x


+1

My FSA cranks went into the rubbish pile due to the FSA BB's failure and FSA's underwhelming response when asked to replace the BB under warranty. Shimano replacement crankset (with cheaper replacement BBs than FSA if the same happens again) were installed instead.
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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby mitzikatzi » Thu May 02, 2013 3:01 pm

Jean wrote:..snip..
With the latest Shimano stuff I'd maybe go down to SLX brakes, but only because the difference between the XT and SLX brakes seems very minimal. For the drive train, XT all the way. With my On-One Inbred I was concerned about the external under the BB gear cable run, but the gears haven't batted an eyelid - excellent stuff. I'm sticking with good Shimano cables in the future on my MTB too, no more after market stuff for me.



SLX cranksets by all accounts are very good. The weight difference is due to the rings, the middle one on SLX is steel which wears a lot better.
Last edited by mitzikatzi on Thu May 02, 2013 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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trailgumby wrote:29ers are awesome.
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Re: whats better, and why?

Postby mitzikatzi » Thu May 02, 2013 3:03 pm

trailgumby wrote:...snip..
At least with XT cranks, if the BB dies quickly on the commuter I can then fit a Hope BB...


I have also been thinking about a Pace bottom bracket. They sell a tool (like Chris King) that allows you to purge fresh grease into the bearings easily.
Xplora wrote: Do not get cheap SPDs, your body will hurt you.

trailgumby wrote:29ers are awesome.
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