Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

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Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby chriscole » Tue May 14, 2013 10:56 pm

Hi folks,

Looking to acquire a hard-tail 29er for not-racing, not-crazy-downhill, recreational xc trail riding (and possibly commuting short distances in super poxy weather or when I want a change from my road and CX bike).

Budget target = $2,000
Budget limit = $3,000

Waddya reckon?
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by BNA » Wed May 15, 2013 6:57 am

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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby antipodean » Wed May 15, 2013 6:57 am

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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby bychosis » Wed May 15, 2013 8:02 am

Just recreational riding and occasional commuting? Look at the under $1500. Any $ more than that will be wasted if you aren't using it as a proper MTB. $2k for a hard tail will get an XC race worthy machine.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby antipodean » Wed May 15, 2013 12:17 pm

bychosis wrote:Just recreational riding and occasional commuting? Look at the under $1500. Any $ more than that will be wasted if you aren't using it as a proper MTB. $2k for a hard tail will get an XC race worthy machine.


Rubbish.
Buy what you want not what someone else reckons you want/need.
Bychosis with that miserable yearly mileage target you obviously only "need" to be riding a $300 hybrid yes?
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby bychosis » Wed May 15, 2013 3:03 pm

Well actually I'm riding a 40yo roadie with some modern cheap wheels for most of my miserable target, but that's not the point. an opinion was requested, and provided. A $1500 bike will do what was requested more than amply, funnily the bike suggested is also priced at $1699.

Edit: dammit, sucked into getting angry at the Internet again.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby eldavo » Wed May 15, 2013 3:12 pm

Also I wonder why 29er specifically?
I heard someone summarise it simply, wheel sizes to suit frame sizes to suit rider sizes.
Wheel size shouldn't really be your concern other than spares availability and price of spares... for which 29er is bad (unless you can call it 700c and find what you need, then it is a lot cheaper =D

It reads to me as you want to spend $2k, but happy to be convinced of having the ultimate bit of gear and will let go of $3k, so I'd suggest good opportunity to build a (monetary) relationship with your favourite LBS and they'd be happy to lighten your pockets while offering advice to help you convince yourself you're happy with your new purchase decision, while making it a lot simpler and easier than all the opinions here will confuse you with.

I see lots of under-used nice bits of expensive gear for sale, after year clearances and then one owner, some of yesteryear's high end gear falls into your budget.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby trailgumby » Wed May 15, 2013 3:48 pm

Eldavo, have you ridden and compared a 29er to a 26er to know what difference th bigger rolling diameter makes? Off road it makes a significnat difference to stability traction an momentum conservation enabling you to sustain higher speeds for equivalent effort than on a 26er. On billiard smooth roads, not so much.

But its a lot more than simply being about frame sizes. Things should be as simple as possible, but never simpler. Whoever said that is oversimplifying. With respect, whoever you're paraphrasing (if youve paraphrased accurately) is talking through their hat.

Not saying there is no relationship between rider size and frame and wheel sizes, but the way you've put it prioritises rider size first, where the priority should be to try to get the biggest wheel size first and then only drop back if you can't get an acceptable riding position.

If youre not going off road then it doesnt matter, although 26er hardtails are dying out. Most of the name brands have stopped making them.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby eldavo » Wed May 15, 2013 6:14 pm

trailgumby, what percentage of your 8336 posts address the original post at all?

(PS: it's the first one in the thread ;)
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby Nobody » Wed May 15, 2013 6:17 pm

trailgumby wrote:...although 26er hardtails are dying out. Most of the name brands have stopped making them.
Oh noes! :o I'm riding the 650C of the road world already. :wink:

trailgumby wrote:Not saying there is no relationship between rider size and frame and wheel sizes, but the way you've put it prioritises rider size first, where the priority should be to try to get the biggest wheel size first and then only drop back if you can't get an acceptable riding position.
Probably true for XC racing, but for just recreational riding I doubt the small percentage of difference is going to matter too much. I read comparisons on STW from people who own(ed) both which summarized as 29 is faster and 26 accelerates better. Most prefered the handling in the tight stuff of a 26 as well. Part of the manufacturer's sales pitch is to sell you something you don't already have. I wonder if we already had 29ers whether they'd be selling us 26ers for their faster acceleration and better handling in tight terrain. Plus it appeals to their favorite sell, which is 26ers are lighter.

I'll probably get a 29er one day when they start getting cheap secondhand, now 650B/27.5 (really 27) are becoming the new fashion.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby uglybob » Mon May 20, 2013 4:47 pm

$2k+ is a nice budget for a HT 29'er considering what you want it for.

Specialized have got a sale on some of their bikes at the moment - you can get a Stumpjumper Comp for $1699 ($500 off)! Similar discounts on some of the Carve range as well (which is the model below the Stumpjumper).

Replace the Avid brakes with some nice Shimano XT's and you'll be sorted! :)

http://www.specialized.com/au/en-au/new ... news/15726
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby kukamunga » Tue May 21, 2013 2:34 am

Jamis Dragon 650B is my next dream bike.....
God save the ABC & SBS.....
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby cobba » Tue May 21, 2013 2:08 pm

trailgumby wrote:26er hardtails are dying out. Most of the name brands have stopped making them.


Some 'name' brands continue to make good 26" hardtail bikes but they chose to only sell them in certain parts of the world.

Here's some examples of 26" bikes that aren't available in Australia.
http://www.trekbikes.com/int/en/bikes/mountain/cross_country/elite_8_series/models
http://www.trekbikes.com/int/en/bikes/mountain/cross_country/elite_carbon_9_series/models
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-in/bikes/model/xtc.composite.1/11609/56145/
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-in/bikes/model/xtc.1/11605/56148/
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby Nobody » Tue May 21, 2013 2:56 pm

cobba wrote:
trailgumby wrote:26er hardtails are dying out. Most of the name brands have stopped making them.


Some 'name' brands continue to make good 26" hardtail bikes but they chose to only sell them in certain parts of the world.

Here's some examples of 26" bikes that aren't available in Australia.
http://www.trekbikes.com/int/en/bikes/mountain/cross_country/elite_8_series/models
http://www.trekbikes.com/int/en/bikes/mountain/cross_country/elite_carbon_9_series/models
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-in/bikes/model/xtc.composite.1/11609/56145/
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-in/bikes/model/xtc.1/11605/56148/

As 29ers were often a bit more expensive, maybe they don't give the cheaper option in the more wealthy countries anymore.

Could it be a height thing? In countries where the average height is shorter they give the 26" option. Components suppliers in Japan often have more shorter crank length choices.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby cobba » Tue May 21, 2013 3:22 pm

Nobody wrote:As 29ers were often a bit more expensive, maybe they don't give the cheaper option in the more wealthy countries anymore.


It's the expensive 26" bike models that are getting harder to find, those Trek 9 Series and Giant XTC Composites aren't cheap bikes.
There still seems to be plenty of cheap/cheaper 26" bikes readily available.

Could it be a height thing? In countries where the average height is shorter they give the 26" option. Components suppliers in Japan often have more shorter crank length choices.


Could also be a marketing thing.
Make something new and make people think that they need it.
After everyone has bought a 29er the 650b will be the new size that's needed.

I'm sure people would still be riding around quite content with 26" bikes if there weren't any 29ers around.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby Nobody » Tue May 21, 2013 6:04 pm

cobba wrote:It's the expensive 26" bike models that are getting harder to find, those Trek 9 Series and Giant XTC Composites aren't cheap bikes.
Maybe it's just in response to what they are no longer selling much of. The people that buy top end are often looking for any edge for their sizable contribution and if 26" is the past then it can't be any good.

Same problem with cars. The wheels keep getting bigger and now I'm starting to have trouble getting good rubber for my 14 and 15" wheels on the old cars. Sure the bigger wheels might handle better (on a smooth road) and look bling, but they are expensive (both wheels and tyres) and don't handle big pot holes well at all. I know people who have damaged rims due to low profile tyres. But that's progress for you.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby Marx » Tue May 21, 2013 7:38 pm

29ers will fade. The industry cottoned onto the fact that MTB doesn't rule out different wheel sizes & found that a slight re-tool of 700c rim producing equipment gives their well stocked bike dealers a big reason to restock their shops with something new.
In a few years time many will look back & think to themselves "What were we thinking?".

The increased weight & comprimise in frame geometry, along wit the increase in wheel flex & limits in gear ratios, are all big issues that 26ers had addressed in the 70's when that wheel size was orignially settled on in the first place.

Ironically this change in wheel size to 29ers in MTB is really just the industry standardising everything to '700c'.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby Nobody » Tue May 21, 2013 9:09 pm

Marx wrote:Ironically this change in wheel size to 29ers in MTB is really just the industry standardising everything to '700c'.
This is a benefit to the industry, but doesn't explain why one of the industry's big players is going to 27.5 for some of their bikes.
http://www.bicycling.com/mountainbikeco ... nch-wheels

I think they're just onto whatever is the latest thing to sell their bikes in volume, whether it's tapered head tubes, press fit BBs, or 1X11.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby Jean » Wed May 22, 2013 9:42 am

Nobody wrote:
Marx wrote:Ironically this change in wheel size to 29ers in MTB is really just the industry standardising everything to '700c'.
This is a benefit to the industry, but doesn't explain why one of the industry's big players is going to 27.5 for some of their bikes.
http://www.bicycling.com/mountainbikeco ... nch-wheels

I think they're just onto whatever is the latest thing to sell their bikes in volume, whether it's tapered head tubes, press fit BBs, or 1X11.


+1. The amount of fadism in cycling is nothing new and reaches new heights in the MTB world. The argument about whether these are real improvements or marketing hype is never ending and there is no real answer, though for manufacturers there is obviously an interest in flogging the 'latest and greatest'. It's the same for any sport where 'gear' is involved, from tennis to running - ever bought a skiing magazine?

Ultimately consumers (influenced or not) will decide what survives. But MTBing is also characterised by many niches and all sorts of odd bits to meet those niche demands, so that will matter too.

As a 29er hardtail rider I would not be keen to go back to 26" wheels as the 29er setup feels much better to me. As for 27.5/650? I dunno, cos I haven't tried one.

For the OP, nothing beats going shopping and trying if you don't know exactly what you are looking for.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby silentbutdeadly » Wed May 22, 2013 9:51 am

Somehow this degenerated into yet another pointless diatribe about wheel sizes. It matters not what you ride but where and how and how much fun you have whilst doing it. Nothing is going away - not 26ers, not 29ers, not 650b, not even unicycles...none of it so there's no point carrying on like petulant chimps on speed debating otherwise...

As for what I'd recommend...well as others have said 2K will buy an awful lot of 29er hardtail. If you only want it for recreational riding then I'd look to something in the order of $1,500 and spend the extra on a better pair of wheels. Something like a Giant XTC 2 but with a pair of Hope Hoops or Shimano MT65 wheels...
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby Jean » Wed May 22, 2013 12:09 pm

silentbutdeadly wrote:Somehow this degenerated into yet another pointless diatribe about wheel sizes. It matters not what you ride but where and how and how much fun you have whilst doing it. Nothing is going away - not 26ers, not 29ers, not 650b, not even unicycles...none of it so there's no point carrying on like petulant chimps on speed debating otherwise...


I don't think it had got that bad. A bit of musing about the paucity of 26" HT options doesn't seem out of line, though perhaps a bit off topic. And FWIW, I agree, nothing is going away - my point about the myriad niches of MTB.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby eldavo » Wed May 22, 2013 1:46 pm

I did wonder if Chris Cole is going to return because it was only a minor question I had for him about why 29er particularly given his requirements.
"Just coz" was the answer I expected, I saw a gumtree ad for a sweet new unused Specialized S-Works carbon yadda yadda hardtail of the $5k+ ilk and seller said "Selling to try a 29er". Sweet, I love 29ers, makes some high end bikes affordable to me now =D
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby trailgumby » Wed May 22, 2013 8:22 pm

eldavo wrote:trailgumby, what percentage of your 8336 posts address the original post at all?

(PS: it's the first one in the thread ;)

Just concerned that you might be directing the OP into an evolutionary backwater. ;)

I think his choice to go 29er HT is well founded. If you're shelling out for new, why buy something that's obsolete before it rolls out the door?

Fadism, I'm not convinced that's true. Interesting from Round 1 last weekend in Germany, that all the top XCO riders have gone 27.5 or 29" wheels. Julien Absalon has been a resister up until last year, but the capitulation appeared to pay off big time last weekend, he had over a minute's lead ahead of the field and stretching it before the mud took his rear derailleur for a trip up and around his cassette.

27.5" suits those shortarses unable to get their position where they want it on a 29er, like Nino Schurter. The race results don't lie. What the companies sponsoring these riders are doing is being led by their feedback. Bigger wheels lose less momentum over rough surfaces, of this there is no doubt. And the market is influenced by what these guys do.

26ers will, I predict, be restricted to bikes with 150mm travel and up. That's if 650b doesn't take over, which is possible given some of the top DHers are looking at it closely.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby Nobody » Thu May 23, 2013 12:22 am

trailgumby wrote:Fadism, I'm not convinced that's true. Interesting from Round 1 last weekend in Germany, that all the top XCO riders have gone 27.5 or 29" wheels.
No doubt this was always going to happen. If you were to read some of my posts from some time ago, I always believed that 29ers would be faster in the end. Even that wheel/tyre testing mob in Europe somewhere confirmed it. But we weren't talking about XC racing, just some recreational riding which you can do on anything.

trailgumby wrote:27.5" suits those shortarses unable to get their position where they want it on a 29er, like Nino Schurter.
Might be a good option for me one day too, but too popular at the moment. I don't spend good money on MTBs I'm only going to crash and/or damage anyway.

trailgumby wrote:26ers will, I predict, be restricted to bikes with 150mm travel and up. That's if 650b doesn't take over, which is possible given some of the top DHers are looking at it closely.
I predict that 27.5 will eventually take that over too. I think the reality of bigger wheels is here to stay. They should have stayed with the 650Bs in the beginning and saved us the trouble.

So there you have it. 26" bikes will only be found in supermarkets and I'll eventually have trouble getting good rubber, like I currently do with my cars. Oh well, that's progress for ya.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby Marx » Thu May 23, 2013 7:35 am

We'll have to earmark this conversation & revisit it in 2020.
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Re: Sell me your favourite MTB!! :-)

Postby silentbutdeadly » Thu May 23, 2013 9:20 am

That'd be much better than doing it every other week. Life is too short for the debate to be truly important.
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