Electric bikes are cheating

Mrsbanter
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Electric bikes are cheating

Postby Mrsbanter » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:47 am

Came across some fellas that are using e-bikes on the single trail, and posting their results on Strava. Of course, these bikes are quickly taking KOMs. Just wanted to put it out there that riders on ebikes should either select ebike if it's available through their strava app, or else list their ride as a 'workout' so that it is not listed publicly.
Thoughts?

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Comedian
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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby Comedian » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:14 pm

Yes they are cheating. It's happening on road too..everywhere.

You could try flagging them.

lone rider
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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby lone rider » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:21 pm

MTB trails segments are full of strava cheats. People cut corners and take shortcuts and every b-line just to post a fast time, it defies the whole point of mtb'ing to begin with. The only mtb strava times i compare myself to are my own, at least i know which parts of the trails i ride.

And even then there is singletrack that runs beside a fire trail where strava cant tell the difference between which and just adds them both to the same segment.

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Comedian
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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby Comedian » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:49 pm

lone rider wrote:MTB trails segments are full of strava cheats. People cut corners and take shortcuts and every b-line just to post a fast time, it defies the whole point of mtb'ing to begin with. The only mtb strava times i compare myself to are my own, at least i know which parts of the trails i ride.

And even then there is singletrack that runs beside a fire trail where strava cant tell the difference between which and just adds them both to the same segment.


I was going to say.. Strava was a good idea in theory.. but in practice there are many issues.

I agree that the only real benefit is for comparing your own performance.

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RonK
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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby RonK » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:56 pm

Comedian wrote:I was going to say.. Strava was a good idea in theory.. but in practice there are many issues.

I agree that the only real benefit is for comparing your own performance.

Then there is no point to it at all - you don't need Strava to compare your own performance.
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Comedian
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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby Comedian » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:14 pm

RonK wrote:
Comedian wrote:I was going to say.. Strava was a good idea in theory.. but in practice there are many issues.

I agree that the only real benefit is for comparing your own performance.

Then there is no point to it at all - you don't need Strava to compare your own performance.

I guess there are lots of other products.. Training peaks, cycling analytics ETC ETC.

However strava is free and the way segments work is kind of cool to be able to look back at every time you've ridden it.

mtb1011
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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby mtb1011 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:28 pm

mate don't worry about the sh111tie-bike things, it wouldn't be hard to work out that the gumby on an e-bike getting a kom was cheating he'll have no training ks or rides he's done - most riders capable of getting decent koms will have heart rate data or power and when you look back through their history you'll soon see some credible events they've completed.

I mean I might strap the garmin onto my motorcross bike and burn around the tracks knocking off the e-bike koms :) nar wouldn't waste my time as I cycle for health and fitness and not to sit my posterior on some motorized contraption.

unless you're old or disabled there's no excuse not to ride a human powered bike and challenge yourself, particularly with the obesity levels we see all around us.

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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby mikgit » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:06 pm

lone rider wrote:And even then there is singletrack that runs beside a fire trail where strava cant tell the difference between which and just adds them both to the same segment.


Yeah, there is one segment I normally ride that vaguely follows the park access road, I'd always done OK on, till one day I was knackered and so at the high point I just bailed onto the road and cruised on down...leapt up the leader board. I don't like it but there no way I can easily fix the ride... especially since the 70 or so people ahead have also done the same thing...
But where that segment ends, you cross the road and another one starts, if you ride to one side of a log barrier thing (low park fence treated log style thing) you're good to go, ride the other side, it won't pick up the segment... so on one side of the road, you can be 50m away from the segment and it still picks it up because there are enough points close to the road...but the other segment, you can't be 2m away or it won't pick it up
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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:19 am

Mrsbanter wrote:Thoughts?


I see the value of ebikes, whether it creates or extends accessibility and for Strava, it would be worth highlighting this as the segments need to be better segmented.

For a eMTB rider, the would predefine eMTB and essentially all eMTB results would not be displayed / used for the results tally.

It would be largely the responsibility of the rider so inevitable that mistakes are made or riders knowingly select the wrong category. However Strava should begin to automatically detect or self-flag unusual segment times. I had a segment where I was surprised at the uphill times (they were less than half my time) and realised that they were from people leaving on their Garmins while driving home after riding. I confirmed by looking at their continuing journey and speeds and also commented for one person who confirmed... though there were too many incorrect times to worry about.

That said, if Strava could receive instructions to determine reasonable speeds and recognise automatically or by reporting that certain times are not possible from human power alone, this would help. Strava should also be able to judge an individuals performance and also determine a rider who has a 15kmh average who can suddenly sustain 60kmh averages in comparison to other performance riders, and subsequently flag irregularities.

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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby trailgumby » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:36 pm

I don't like them.

We already have a big fight to keep trail access around Sydney, let alone expand the network, and having these things hareing around will significantly complicate advocacy efforts.

There is a push to keep us off walking tracks because of the risk of collision. Traditionally we've been able to say with some credibility that this is a non-issue because our power outputs (and therefore speeds and impact on trail erosion) are so low - the blue rinse set that has nothing better to do in their retirement but whinge to land managers has typically confused us with motorbikes.

These things, however, only cut out the power when you exceed 25km/hr. On many trails that is dangerously fast.

Some land managers have banned them on singletrack, with substantial fines applying. I think that is a good outcome.

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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby mtb1011 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:13 pm

yes trailgumby no different to getting the motorcross bike out and buzzing around trials, these e-crap things are motorised so really they are just motorbikes, I have no problem with them on the road however on trails and bike paths, with no reg, no license, no blooooddy good mate.

if they hit one of us, no insurance and you have inexperienced fat dude plus a 30kg Chinese bike coming down on you.

what's wrong with people, cycling aren't' so hard that you need to motor farkin hell. :lol:

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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby Marx » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:30 pm

Strava KOMs & Segmet leaderborads can't apply to MTB, as even a slight change in the weather or a recent trail working bee can dramatically affect the result.
We all automatically assume all MTB related KOMs are cheats anyway, so there's no glory in having your name up there.
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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby Comedian » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:50 pm

trailgumby wrote:I don't like them.
These things, however, only cut out the power when you exceed 25km/hr. On many trails that is dangerously fast.

I reckon if you looked at 10 electric MTB's I'd be surprised if more than a couple had the speed limiter in place.

I don't like illegal electric bikes. But - I think it's a bit like trying to stop rat running motorists. It's like holding the tide back. :cry:

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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby trailgumby » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:52 am

Marx wrote:Strava KOMs & Segmet leaderborads can't apply to MTB, as even a slight change in the weather or a recent trail working bee can dramatically affect the result.
We all automatically assume all MTB related KOMs are cheats anyway, so there's no glory in having your name up there.

That's why I train with a power meter rather than by segment times.

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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby NOVISCOTT » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:06 pm

I ride an eMTB and use Strava, but for my own information and keep my segments hidden from leader boards. My bike is also unmodified. I ride an eMTB because my trail riding is also my commute, which is getting up towards 30km each way if I do some exploring. Anyone who thinks riding an eMTB is just sitting on your bum doing nothing hasn't ridden one for any relevant length of time.
It's a decent workout, completed in a decent time, that covers the to and from work.

I have to also say I've not yet seen another eMTB. And neither have any of the people I've come across. I doubt the walkers I've passed and said hello to or had a chat with even knew my bike was powered.

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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby RonK » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:21 pm

trailgumby wrote:There is a push to keep us off walking tracks because of the risk of collision. Traditionally we've been able to say with some credibility that this is a non-issue because our power outputs (and therefore speeds and impact on trail erosion) are so low - the blue rinse set that has nothing better to do in their retirement but whinge to land managers has typically confused us with motorbikes.

Not really all that surprising really, as Logan puts it...

As the editor at BIKEPACKING.com, I see a lot of bike related content. After a while, it’s easy to gloss over the prevailing tone of mainstream mountain biking media, social streams and culture. You know, the one where trails aren’t just ridden. They’re ripped, crushed, owned, and shredded. Scenery is supplanted by skids, tail whips and big air. All too often, the image of mountain biking is portrayed as destroying land, not savoring it. This overtly aggressive lexicon has also slipped into the words, visual language, culture, clothing, and graphics that define it. It’s no wonder other land user groups fear us.


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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby trailgumby » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:42 pm

RonK wrote:Not really all that surprising really, as Logan puts it...

As the editor at BIKEPACKING.com, I see a lot of bike related content. After a while, it’s easy to gloss over the prevailing tone of mainstream mountain biking media, social streams and culture. You know, the one where trails aren’t just ridden. They’re ripped, crushed, owned, and shredded. Scenery is supplanted by skids, tail whips and big air. All too often, the image of mountain biking is portrayed as destroying land, not savoring it. This overtly aggressive lexicon has also slipped into the words, visual language, culture, clothing, and graphics that define it. It’s no wonder other land user groups fear us.


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I quite agree. Those cover shots make me shudder.

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Re: Electric bikes are cheating

Postby Mububban » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:52 am

I've just recently joined Strava, but have noticed there's one username called something like "Fred e-bike ignore me!" on some of the segments I ride :D
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