Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

Hey all

I am a definite newbie... trying to find a bike... looking at full carbon with Ultegra...

will be riding alot of hills

Can anyone give me any advice on small bikes.. I have almost purchased Oreba Onix dama with Ultegra.. the bike has smaller wheels than usual 650? Does anyone have any thoughts on riding with the smaller wheels? how did this affect the riding ( totally clueless here) . I have also been looking at a Cannondale Synapse Carbon 3>?

Any other options I should look at? price range is about $3000.

I am 5 foot stuff all.(152cm).. about 57 kgs (too heavy)

Thanks ...

S.

I'm about the same size as you and have a bike with 650c wheels. Smaller riders often can't get a short enough effective top tube length and standover on bikes with 700c wheels although I see that that the Venezualan rider in the Giro appeared to be riding 700c wheels the other day. Don't know how tall he is but he weighs 49kg apparently!

Anyway, there's no problem with 650s in a road bike. You can race it (if that's a consideration) but you will find that you probably have a better fit than you would on a the next size up. It's slightly harder to get tyres but you just have to plan ahead a bit. I've got a couple of spares in the cupboard that I take away with me because most smaller bike shops don't stock them but you can get them in the city over night. Tubes are no problem.

Your gears will be slightly lower than if you had them on a 700c bike which means if you were going up a hill, you could go up probably one gear bigger on 650s than if you were on 700s. However, this hasn't been much of a problem for me.

If you are going to be a serious race rider and do road races, then you might want to think the strategy again. Neutral support vehicles don't carry 650c wheels. But you would have to be pretty good and up there with the leaders to be able to ride fast enough to change a wheel and still be a contender in the race. Personally, I'm not and I don't worry about that.

My advice is - go for the bike that fits. Don't worry about the wheel size. Don't listen to people who have never ridden 650s and tell you that it is slower (it isn't) or who say you can't get spares.

I would suggest having a look at specialized road bikes. They do small frames (I ride a 44cm) with 700 wheels and have no issues with geometry. I use SRAM as I have small hands and haven't tried the close reach shimano set ups. The shims didn't work for me.

I had heard that pinarello and trek also have some small frame options with 700 wheels but I could be making that up.

I'm 150 cm short, have 650cc wheeled Baum and 700cc Specialized Amira both with Specialites TA 155mm cranks and serious alpine gearing!

Both great bikes. I'm just about to get the Baum retrofitted with S & S Couplers so I can cram it in a v small suitcase and fly around with it.

The key though to the bikes is the 155mm cranks, Steve Hogg said 'not negotiable' and he was totally right, great bike fit, worth doing if you can afford it.

Agree with Ruby about small hands and SRAM. I have no toe overlap on the amir, combination of short cranks, cleat position even though my feet are not that small!

+1 specialized amira ( Giant tcr2wsd? , cerveloRS-650 , custom ) If your in sydney, and interested in the spesh try jet cycles in the cbd, good guys and helpfull and MC cyclery has giant and they are helpfull too.

9/10 bike shops will try to sell you something off their shelf with an effective 50cm top tube which will need a 6cm-ish stem. Unless your torso is super alongated, you'll more than likely need something closer to 47cm.

It is possible to make 50cm top tube ( larger than your size ) bikes fit close enough with inline seat posts ( assuming the frame supports standard seatposts ) and shorter stems etc. but the handling will never feel the best as you will feel more "perched on top of the bike" and the shorter stem makes steering more twitchy.

After a few months, if you ride alot still, take a look at narrow/short bars ( salsa poco et-al.) and shorter cranks ( 155ish ). Shims / adjustable evers are good too.

The problem is most makers don't cater to this height as they wouldn't sell enough models. Be wary of alot of manufacturer sites. Most advertise small sizes that they don't make available in Australia. If at all.

I know you said carbon + ultegra but just throwing these out there as there are so few options. If you wan't something a bit cheaper and heavier, you could look at a hillbrick650, argon18-xenon et.al. ( don't think they make them aymore ). They are "junior" bikes and a little heavy/er ( 12kg instead of around 9 ) but the geometry should be a close match for you and at around $1000k it's a lot less wastage coming onto the sport/hobby.

GOOD LUCK!!!

feral grasshopper wrote: The key though to the bikes is the 155mm cranks, Steve Hogg said 'not negotiable' and he was totally right, great bike fit, worth doing if you can afford it.

Just curious if Steve Hogg recommended the Amira or if it was one you already owned? I have an Amira Pro but due to crank length (165) my seat is quite a long way back and I have an 80mm stem. I am a bit taller at 157cm but have short legs, long torso. I am very happy with my fit now but was curious as to what difference crank length makes or in my situation it would just require reshuffling (eg longer cranks/move forward a bit, longer headstem). ETA I have no toe overlap with 165 cranks either so it seems to be a feature of the small specialized frames.

I have heard very mixed reviews about Steve Hogg from the totally awesome to the regretting spending the money. I already own the bike and I would be devastated if after spending my hard earned cash he recommened something totally different!

Maybe for the next bike

Ruby wrote:

feral grasshopper wrote: The key though to the bikes is the 155mm cranks, Steve Hogg said 'not negotiable' and he was totally right, great bike fit, worth doing if you can afford it.

Just curious if Steve Hogg recommended the Amira or if it was one you already owned? I have an Amira Pro but due to crank length (165) my seat is quite a long way back and I have an 80mm stem. I am a bit taller at 157cm but have short legs, long torso. I am very happy with my fit now but was curious as to what difference crank length makes or in my situation it would just require reshuffling (eg longer cranks/move forward a bit, longer headstem). ETA I have no toe overlap with 165 cranks either so it seems to be a feature of the small specialized frames.

I have heard very mixed reviews about Steve Hogg from the totally awesome to the regretting spending the money. I already own the bike and I would be devastated if after spending my hard earned cash he recommened something totally different!

Maybe for the next bike

157! That's a lot taller, lucky U! I had previously consulted Steve Hogg prior to buying a custom steel Baum so I knew the 155 cranks were right for me, I bought the Amira on a whim and sourced the same chainrings and cranks from Specialites TA then took the whole thing to Steve for a final fit, he made minor adjustments to position and cleated up my Speedplay cleats appropriately.

I'm aware that SH can polarize people, I think he is amazing and trust his judgement absolutely. I've had him fit all three of my bikes, my Specialized New Era MTB still has 165 cranks which I retrofitted before I came across SH. I just did a 900km ride in SA and really noticed the longer cranks were giving me some issues (various aches and pains) that I don't get on my roadies, SH said I should put 155 cranks on the MTB also and I probably will.


Bottom line is: are you getting problems which you relate to bike fit, if not, then fine! If you are then my instinct is to throw everything u can at the problem because my intention is to ride as well and as long as possible and I'm no spring chicken! And ultimately it's all about fitness and performance and fun. Minor niggles can very quickly turn into major and ongoing issues that are harder to rectify than proactively prevent. Steve's blog is very helpful for research.

Hope this helps and doesn't just further confuse! It's all so individual in the end
Cheers Deb

I have 650c wheels on my custom built bike Teschner, which Steve Hogg built for me, great bike fit, 170mm cranks, no toe over lap.
I am 161cm tall.

I also have a pinarrelo with 700c wheels with very slight toe overlap, cranks are also 170mm. The Pinny was built to the measurement of my Teschner.
I have to say the Teschner fits like a glove and I love riding it.

Eleri wrote: My advice is - go for the bike that fits. Don't worry about the wheel size. Don't listen to people who have never ridden 650s and tell you that it is slower (it isn't) or who say you can't get spares.

The answer is here.

Apple wrote:

Eleri wrote: My advice is - go for the bike that fits. Don't worry about the wheel size. Don't listen to people who have never ridden 650s and tell you that it is slower (it isn't) or who say you can't get spares.

The answer is here.

Agree, agree, agree! Essentially what I'm saying too, and the pursuit of perfection is just plain fun, if a little expensive sometimes

Emma Pooley rides 650's and is the world roads time trial champion... Nuff said

Yep - i do believe that Emma has been doing TTs over here with ATTA and getting 41-42km/hr averages over 40km.........

Thanks Deb for indulging my curiosity! I don't have any issues with my bike fit but I have a bad neck and it took some time to get the balance right in the weight in my hands. My bike fitter is also my physio so it works well.

I agree entirely about buying a bike that fits but I know when I bought my first road bike I had no idea what a good fit was meant to feel or look like. Especially when you are looking at small, subtle differences that might make all the difference.

The thing I like about SH is his independence from any brand, where as you go to the shop and your only going to get advice on the brands they sell and not everyone will fit you on a bike you are only thinking about buying. I guess it is a lot of coin to spend if you are not sure that cycling is going to be your thing.

I also believe Emma Pooley has a team car full of spares for her little cervelo! That was my main reservation around 650 wheels, that and your wheel selection is a bit more limited.

Jeannie Longo was also a world champion cyclist, she rode 650c wheels and won most of her races, she is French

giwi2 wrote:Yep - i do believe that Emma has been doing TTs over here with ATTA and getting 41-42km/hr averages over 40km.........

Like I said, rainbow jersey, world womens champ.

If you want 650 wheels just ask, everything can be bought.

Jeannie is awesome. Unbelievable. Regarding spares, do what most other cyclist do, carry your own unless your racing you'll be fine

http://www.rodbikes.com/articles/web_ar ... heels.html

I found this today, interesting read. I think I will ride my 650c bike more often. I am getting new wheels for the bike, that was the hardest part to get.

Apple wrote:http://www.rodbikes.com/articles/web_ar ... heels.html

I found this today, interesting read. I think I will ride my 650c bike more often. I am getting new wheels for the bike, that was the hardest part to get.

Thanks for the link, Apple, ur right, extremely interesting stuff, may I ask, what 650 wheels are u getting?? One of the problems with 650cc bikes is the lack of availability of decent wheels, IMO.

I am getting Velocety
http://www.velocitywheels.com/store/cat ... asp?cID=21

Velocity are the best ones on the market when it comes to 650c wheels.

Here is my Teschner with Velocity 650c wheels, I have ordered new wheels from my LBS and they will move my cogs over to the new Velocity

Apple wrote:Velocity are the best ones on the market when it comes to 650c wheels.

Here is my Teschner with Velocity 650c wheels, I have ordered new wheels from my LBS and they will move my cogs over to the new Velocity

Sweet bike! Why new wheels, are they an upgrade, I've got Mavic Open Pros, are the velocity lighter? Or does that depend more on the hubs?(AT)

my front wheel is out of true and cant be fixed, it is worn around the rim.
The hub is Amarican classic and is fine, but I am getting a new hub with the other wheel. I am changing both wheels.
The wheels are light.
I couldnt get any other brand, and these are good value for a racing wheel.

Hey feral grasshopper
I hope you ar coming to the snowy girls weekend in November

Apple wrote:I have 650c wheels on my custom built bike Teschner, which Steve Hogg built for me, great bike fit, 170mm cranks, no toe over lap.
I am 161cm tall.

I also have a pinarrelo with 700c wheels with very slight toe overlap, cranks are also 170mm. The Pinny was built to the measurement of my Teschner.
I have to say the Teschner fits like a glove and I love riding it.

Did Steve ever mention shorter cranks to you? Ever have any knee problems? There are plenty of other reasons to go to short cranks, other than you are likely to be short legged enough to benefit from them.

I'm 173cm with an 81cm inner leg. According to the calculator below I'm better off with 165s which I run on all my bikes now.
http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/b ... lator.html

Apple wrote:Hey feral grasshopper
I hope you ar coming to the snowy girls weekend in November

Hadn't heard about it, sounds interesting (challenging!?!) tell me more! I'm usually game to go anywhere if it involves bicycles and eating and drinking, LOL!

has anyone used 650 racing wheels? like a zipp 404 or something with a deeper rim?

Are they more expensive and did you notice any issues or comparisons?? other than trying to find a spare 650 tubular tyre when racing :p

I am looking at a time trial bike and I think my options are going to be limited. And expensive to have two sets of of wheels.