Sore

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Sore

Postby Wakatuki » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:48 pm

Sorry ladies but posting on the wife's behalf,

Pam is new to cycling, about 200k's under the belt so far. Riding a 2007 Dolce, with original saddle.
Her main discomfort comes from a soreness caused by the saddle on her *cough* little flower :oops:
The seat is at the correct height I have tried tipping the seat forward but that just put additonal pressure on her wrists and made her uncomfortable in two places.

I have put the seat back into position to just a tiny bit tip forward and soreness situation is as it's always been. Pam wears proper cycle knicks, tried with and with out underwear, a little less irritation with out.

Any thoughts on saddle position or anything else, or is it saddle time? The average ride is between 18-50 k's depends on hills or flats.

Thank you
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by BNA » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:11 pm

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Re: Sore

Postby RonK » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:11 pm

Sound like she may be sitting on the narrow part of the saddle - it may be set too far back. Try moving it forward.

You don't mention that she is using chamois cream - get some and apply it liberally to the chamois.

She may also need to consider if the quality of her knicks is up to scratch. Are they womens-specific? And definitely no underwear - I though all women knew that a VPL is tres gauche.

All this still leaves the possibility that the saddle doesn't suit. A womens-specific saddle, shorter, wider, perhaps with a cutaway may be necessary, perhaps a Terry.

Finally, this all assumes that her bike fit is correct. If she is experiencing clitoral irritation (it's ok to say that here) as you seem to be alluding to, this may indicate that the reach is too long or the front is too low causing her pelvis to roll forward and increasing the pressure on her genitals.

Worked through all these issues when my wife started cycling.

She's not riding big distances and will no doubt benefit from some more saddle time. Start with the easy stuff and see how she goes.
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Re: Sore

Postby marinmomma » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:26 pm

I have a 2012 Dolce with the saddle that it came with, and it's so comfy regardless of my choice of knicks.

Sounds like she might need a shorter stem or the saddle moved forward a bit so that her hips aren't rolling forward putting pressure on sensitive parts.

Get the fit double checked first before changing the saddle, IMO.

HTh
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Re: Sore

Postby gabrielle260 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:33 pm

RonK wrote:Sound like she may be sitting on the narrow part of the saddle - it may be set too far back. Try moving it forward.

You don't mention that she is using chamois cream - get some and apply it liberally to the chamois.

She may also need to consider if the quality of her knicks is up to scratch. Are they womens-specific? And definitely no underwear - I though all women knew that a VPL is tres gauche.

All this still leaves the possibility that the saddle doesn't suit. A womens-specific saddle, shorter, wider, perhaps with a cutaway may be necessary, perhaps a Terry.

Finally, this all assumes that her bike fit is correct. If she is experiencing clitoral irritation (it's ok to say that here) as you seem to be alluding to, this may indicate that the reach is too long or the front is too low causing her pelvis to roll forward and increasing the pressure on her genitals.

Worked through all these issues when my wife started cycling.


Ditto!
The first thing Gabby and I did was to go to a bike shop, put her bike in a home trainer and then try different saddles. It was a little of cart before horse but was the fastest and cheapest first step.
The result from that was dramatic - many saddles were an instant and emphatic no. The right saddle was instantaneously a yes...
Then we got her fitted for a custom built frame. Again the difference was dramatic! The main triangle on her first bike looked like an equilateral triangle but on the custom frame it was like an isosceles triangle.
Her comment after her first ride on the custom frame (with the "right" saddle moved over) was "I didn't realise cycling didn't have to hurt".
That comment blew me away because she had ridden the length of Tasmania, Broken Hill to Bacchus Marsh and several 200km rides by that point.
It was after that I became passionate about women's cycling and women's bike fit!
Good luck with your wife's comfort issue - please reassure her she is not the first to go through this and that the end result of persevering is worth it!
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Re: Sore

Postby Wakatuki » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:21 pm

Thank you :D
Spoke with Pam about the comments raises, will be looking for a new frame for in the new year, unless lotto happens and swap out the new groupset.

Until then the first step will be saddle further forward, Pam said the last ride was the least uncomfortable yet. The pain is above her clitoris and is the bone.
Then I will take her to the LBS and look at stems and height if the issue continues.

She is wearing women specific Knicks Life Cycle by Cannibal.com.au so the cream is definitely a good idea, any pointers on where I can get this, LBS or hardware store!!!

No riding this weekend :( Have you seen the rain!!!
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Re: Sore

Postby RonK » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:58 pm

The lbs will have chamois creams - Aussie Butt cream is a good one. But they are expensive so we just get QV or generic sorbolene cream from the chemist.

It's been raining all day in Brissy but not so heavy yet. But I've just received an extreme weather alert for tonight and tomorrow.
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Re: Sore

Postby Apple » Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:08 pm

New saddle, bike fit for the seat, No woman should ever have to go through that. Once fitted correctly she will be the happiest woman ever. Oh and I am sure you will also be very happy. Lots of ladies saddles out there, I take my old saddle off my old bike and always put it on my new bike. The bike shop says I need a new saddle and I tell them not to even go there.
I have a fizik vitesse. I love it.
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Re: Sore

Postby Venus62 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:23 pm

I put one of these http://www.wiggle.co.uk/selle-italia-la ... ow-saddle/ on my new road bike and have not had one day of saddle soreness. Best decision ever. The guys who set up my bike also took their time and made sure I was comfortable. Nothing worse than crushed girl bits (although I'm sure the boys might disagree).
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Re: Sore

Postby Apple » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:00 pm

Venus62 wrote:. The guys who set up my bike also took their time and made sure I was comfortable.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++1 ^^^^^^^^
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Re: Sore

Postby MarkG » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:10 pm

Good old VPL.. lol
Proudly "a hater of academics with helmet cams"
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Re: Sore

Postby Wakatuki » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:30 pm

Sneaky post from work! :)
Hey, we survived, not long had power back after 56hrs, still no home phone or internet, the mobile phone is DATA MAXED out, hopefully get a ride this weekend. Most local roads completely covered in tree debris, slippy in a car, let alone a roadie so will be heading coastal and avoiding foam! Let you know how we go.
Thus far saddle has been moved fully forward, but not ridden. Noticed the handlebar stem is set to the declined angle. Will switch this around, in the conquest for comfort if the saddle does not solve the issue. Will be trying the Sorbolene method too, we have that in stock!
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Re: Sore

Postby Summernight » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:39 pm

Venus62 wrote:I put one of these http://www.wiggle.co.uk/selle-italia-la ... ow-saddle/ on my new road bike and have not had one day of saddle soreness. Best decision ever. The guys who set up my bike also took their time and made sure I was comfortable. Nothing worse than crushed girl bits (although I'm sure the boys might disagree).


+1 to this after having 3 months of ever increasing pain in that exact area you are talking about (bike was a unisex with a torture device as a seat) - the only relief was the weekend (I'm a commute rider and don't currently ride bicycles on the weekends) when I wasn't riding and this is after only riding 5kms each way every work day. Bought one of these after researching and reading the reviews and have not had the pains again. Bliss. And the added benefits of not grimacing in pain every time this place was touched was an extra bonus. XP

I had previously lowered the front of the torture device but that didn't help - recently I put the Diva seat back to flat (I had left it at a similar angle as the previous seat to try it out) and the pain hasn't returned.

It was something the LBS didn't pick up on in my fit when I bought the bike, although that may be because the pain was caused by the constant pressure over a period of days.

If/when I get another bike I will buy another of these seats for it.
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Re: Sore

Postby Wakatuki » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:19 pm

Update,
Saddle moved fully forward, much better, unfortunately Pam became really ill on the ride, the dreaded rear stitch/indigestion feeling in the right of the back and we had to go short on the ride, she has never had it before. Pam was going really well until that point, I think she over did it. Anyway, got her to the cafe and after a bit to eat and a few stretches and laying on the concrete path, we were good to go even broke a PB on the way back. A little bit of soreness this time in the flesh rather than the pubic bone, but she did admit that she forgot to cream up.
When I got home I have inverted the stem and this will push her into a more relaxed position, will keep you informed> If the stem makes no difference then I will switch back, Pam also commented that her wrists were much better, no pains at all.

Thanks.
Alistair and Pam
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Re: Sore

Postby simonn » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:06 pm

My wife has complained of similar problems. Have been watching her and she is less upright than I would want to be and the steerer tube on her bike is a cut a little short anyway (was like that from factory - giant), so put on a high rise stem this weekend. She is more upright now and more comfortable.

I would suspect that it is more to do with how leaned over (or how much of an aero position, if you prefer). The saddle should be in the proper position to allow efficient pedaling. The reach needs to be adjusted for comfort - i.e. stem, bars etc. Yes this can change handling properties blah blah, but IMHO this is a lower priority. Not riding because it is uncomfortable effects the handling properties infinitely more.
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Re: Sore

Postby Venus62 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:06 pm

Wakatuki wrote:Update,
Saddle moved fully forward, much better, unfortunately Pam became really ill on the ride, the dreaded rear stitch/indigestion feeling in the right of the back and we had to go short on the ride, she has never had it before. Pam was going really well until that point, I think she over did it. Anyway, got her to the cafe and after a bit to eat and a few stretches and laying on the concrete path, we were good to go even broke a PB on the way back. A little bit of soreness this time in the flesh rather than the pubic bone, but she did admit that she forgot to cream up.
When I got home I have inverted the stem and this will push her into a more relaxed position, will keep you informed> If the stem makes no difference then I will switch back, Pam also commented that her wrists were much better, no pains at all.

Thanks.
Alistair and Pam


I actually went for a ride on my old hybrid yesterday; 30km from Moffat Beach to Golden Beach, Pelican Waters up the bike paths next to Caloundra Rd (a few short but nasty climbs there!) to Parklands Blvd and back to Moffat Beach. Although I wasn't sore, I could definitely "feel" the saddle unlike the new one on my road bike. Probably a combination of saddle and set-up. I have never used chamois cream; I'm not convinced it makes that much difference unless you're doing massive rides. Hope Pam gets to a stage where she enjoys the ride!
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Re: Sore

Postby Wakatuki » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:14 am

Maybe shes born with, maybe it's Sorbolene!
44k's covered yesterday 98% successful. No pain in wrists, several PB's achieved.
What has been done?
Seat fully forward, stem reversed to a positive incline.
She felt her knees hurt a little, and had a little bit of soreness now in the flesh area not the pubic bone.
After 20 mins this had gone, small hill ride tomorrow as we have a day off. I will report back.
Thank you
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Re: Sore

Postby Ross » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:03 pm

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Re: Sore

Postby Wakatuki » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:31 pm

Thanks Ross,

We are not out of the woods yet, getting red raw on the Labia now, despite creaming up prior to the ride. This happened in a 35k hilly ride.
The next day we were limited to 18k's through discomfort. I hope we can get this sorted. Will be looking at shorter length saddle next I think, any good shops with a wide variety of ladies saddles to try?
Don't mind the travel from Sunshine Coast to Brisbane if necessary.

Looking at the Selle Italia Diva and Lady Gel Flow and will try and do the cheek to cheek test also, any thoughts in the Brooks B17 and B17 imperial Ladies?
Watching her ride she does have quite an aggressive posture, leans forward and is comfortable like that. When climbing hills she really bobs up and down on her arms, pivoting at the hips, not bouncing in the saddle though. Never noticed that before.
I am the complete opposite, I sit up when climbing in the saddle to maximize my breathing capicaty!
Last edited by Wakatuki on Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sore

Postby Venus62 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:58 pm

I know it's a bit of a punt buying a saddle sight unseen, but do take a look at the reviews on the Selle Italia Diva saddle I was mentioning above. I'm still very happy with mine.
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Re: Sore

Postby reefer » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:08 pm

Try a SMP, my wife did and loves it. Completely fixed the same issue. Only downside was cost, at $290ish.
I am getting one for myself for a trial from melbourne, quite limited variety in my town.
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Re: Sore

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:43 pm

I'm no expert on ladies anatomy, merely an enthusiastic amateur but...
Wakatuki wrote:When climbing hills she really bobs up and down on her arms, pivoting at the hips, not bouncing in the saddle though.

sounds like a recipe for sore bits to me.

Have you tried a trainer session to see if upper body movement can be discounted when it comes to causing abrasion/pressure?
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Re: Sore

Postby marinmomma » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:51 pm

I like my Specialized Jett saddle, have had it a couple of years now and on two different bikes, but saddles are such an individual thing.

Sounds like the posture/body movement when climbing may have been a contributing factor in the recent episode...sounds very awkward and a waste of energy that could be better used via the legs to get up the hill?..was that while climbing seated or getting out of the saddle?
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Re: Sore

Postby isabella24 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:49 pm

+1 for the SMP, I have an SMP glider and love it. It took me a while to work out which one was right for me too. See my thread on saddles here: viewtopic.php?p=778913#p778913
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Re: Sore

Postby Wakatuki » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:33 pm

marinmomma wrote:Sounds like the posture/body movement when climbing may have been a contributing factor in the recent episode...sounds very awkward and a waste of energy that could be better used via the legs to get up the hill?..was that while climbing seated or getting out of the saddle?


Until recently I was more conscious of her road position as she weaves quite a bit when climbing. As this is getting better i noticed the bobbing too. She cannot stand yet, so remains seated, until she goes so slow she falls off or stops abruptly, Pam really does put the effort in. Her strength is on the increase along with her cardio. Knocked a few minutes off a PR on the first ride.

Isabella, I will hop over to your thread next. :)
Mulger Bill, Will try a video next week, purely for research! :P I will also look for a female trainer too, good idea.
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Re: Sore

Postby Wakatuki » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:13 am

A short session of me talking to Pam about this last night and raising the concept of spending money to resolve this revealed she failed to cream up before the ride! So perhaps the soreness is partially her fault she said. However the pain she really suffers and has never told be about before is her coxis, (tail bone) on longer rides.
Now that's a new one. Pam, unfortunately will not venture into a osteopath about this as she is to embarrassed, so I have no idea how this is going to be resolved.....
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