Christine Tham wrote:Prototype Lexus electric bicycle:
carbon frame, 8 speed hub gearing, 240w motor.
I must admit, against my better judgement, I like.
I'm wondering how you'd reach those hoods
Positive discussion on ebikes and pedal assist bicycles
Why are there two STI levers when there is only an 8-speed internally geared hub?
This thread is another example of why we should get rid of the States. Groups of politicians and Public Servants in each state all sitting around talking about reinventing the wheel, and coming up with several different rules in Australia.
I could go off on a tangent about Drivers licences as an example, but I will , for once, spare you.
Iâ€™ve put my 2 cents worth in and helped two guys go electric
One is 83 years old and he is strong enough to ride on the flats but has trouble getting home (which is at the top of a steep hill)â€¦now he rides unassisted down and around town (doing 15ks a day) and uses the motor to get back home
The other is very disabled and now has a motor on his â€œGreenspeed tikeâ€ He was told by his Quacks that heâ€™d never walk or ride again. But over the last 5years by doing what work he could on the peddles heâ€™s now able to both, walk (some) and ride without the motor (most of the time).
So would you guys, who are against having any El Motor. Want to ban them so my two old mates have to stay stuck in their homes and never get out?
Sound a bit like some of you donâ€™t like the idea of being beaten up a hill.
Put yourself in the other guys shoes.
Thanks for sharing, I can only draw the conclusion that anyone who is against electric bikes is either having an oil company give generous funding to their election campaign or completely out of touch as to where our society is and is headed.
I really don't understand this. we now have almost uniform national road laws for the first time in Australian history. and laws for electric assist bikes have now been nationally standardised at 200watts.
from an electric assist point; of view under separate state laws at least some were allowed 300watts.
Have I miss interpreted your post?
I'd ban the petrol motors. Electric-Assist is fine. However, the electric motor should be AUXILIARY propulsion. None of this treating them like unregistered electric scooters.
THIS is the sort of thing which has been creating troubles for us. 200-watt electric motor scooters with pedals attached to the side.
On the other hand, the image below is clearly a bicycle with ELECTRIC ASSIST.
I live in two states, roughly Tasmania in summer, and Queensland in winter. In Qld my wife can ride a 50cc motor scooter on her car licence. She needs a motor cycle licence to ride it in Tasmania. We need to change our Qld drivers licences to Tasmanian licences within 3 months of arrival in Tasmania (this applies to tourists too, regardless of their future intents). On return to Qld we need to convert back to a Qld licence. This all means two drivers licence swaps each year for each of us. Just a little example of a multitude of items presently dealt with by 7 sets of politicians and public servants, all striving hard to maintain their own little dung hills, at unnecessary multi-duplicate expense to the rest of us. Travel and communications that took weeks and months 100 years ago now take seconds. It is time to get rid of the leeches.
Last edited by master6 on Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I apologise Leigh. You did not write this. I was quoting Rust, and you were intermingled there through no fault of your own, and in trying to delete some to minimise and simplify , I incorrectly left your name in the revised piece.
Just when I thought I was perfect, I have clipped the wheel and come a gutsa.
Martin (I wonâ€™t be voting you in as god as youâ€™d have to many laws for me.)
> I'd ban the petrol motors. Electric-Assist is fine. However, the electric motor should be AUXILIARY propulsion<
In my second example of my old mate Tony â€¦he couldnâ€™t at first ride at all without the motorâ€¦ it was only after months of trying and working his bugged legs that he could at last ride without using the motor.
So youâ€™d have him â€œbannedâ€ from riding as he did not have it as â€œAUXILIARY propulsionâ€
You've picked out some quite unrepresentative users of motorised BSO's - my observation of those using them is that virtually all of them fall into a much younger age bracket and don't have any obvious disability. So it's a bit severe to base policy and law on rare cases like them and question Martin's intentions. Laws have to do what's best for the whole community, and can't always be fair to everyone.
Nevertheless, there are other vehicle categories in the Road Rules that could probably cater for people with the level of disability you are describing - such as the motorised scooters. There is a 10 kph speed limit on them (Rule 244A), but that shouldn't be problematic for someone who's interest is rehab; plenty of unfit noobie cyclists would have trouble maintaining 10 kph uphill anyway. So for these cases, just limit the motor-assisted speed to 10 kph. And they don't have to wear helmets, and can ride on the footpaths.
Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
If you travel between 2 states as you do, the requirement to change licence each time is not quite true.
You will need to pick the one that you will calim as your main domicile and use that licence. Sure the Police would give you a hard time should they stop you, but if you categorically state "I intend to go home" there is very little they can do and no offence can be registered. You do not even have to provide a timeline for your return, simply stating you intent to return is enough.
Once I was stopped in WA simply 'cos I was driving a Vic plated car. They verbally gave me a hard time saying I must register the car in WA and change my licence, buyt I kept politely ststing an intention to return home. All they could do was strongly advise me to reregister the car etc, but couldn't actually force me to do so even though again I politely ststed there was little point due to my intention to return. Since then I have also met gentleman who has driven a firebird on a US licence for 20 years. He still uses the line, but I think that is a very extreme case. Your biannual migration should not be harmed by bureaucratic crap.
I had this difficulty living in Perth for a year. I couldn't seee the point of changing my licence so took the advice of a Policeman friend of mine to use those 5 little words.
It will be quite easy for you as you will obviously be maintaining two domiciles and postal addresses, so can easily prove an intent to return. Pull out a bill or other official letter from the glove box from the home you choose and say that is where I live and I intend to return.
Bit o/t... But what happens if you are involved in an accident after the four month limit - could you be viewed as an unlicensed driver of an unregistered vehicle?
Might be worth keeping an e-bike in the boot in case you're stopped!
Here, we'd have to delve deeper into the definitions of auxiliary propulsion. The current proposal is that the electric motor will only operate whilst the pedals are turning and that it will cut-out at 25kph. Basically, the idea is to stop people from turning bicycles into unregistered scooters/mopeds. Of course, auxiliary power like this does not prevent an "assist" even if the pedals are barely moving, and at the moment there is no regulation stating how the power-assist is regulated. It is still quite possible not to exclude your friend.
One of my mates (whom I stopped after explaining all the technical issues to him) basically wanted to turn a bicycle into a motor-bike. Apparently he had met someone on the road doing 70kph on one of them, and that was what he wanted to do.
>You've picked out some quite unrepresentative users of motorised BSO's <<
Well I can only go on my town (what you say may be true for your town) and in my town (Pop 7500) there are 4 of these El Bikes â€¦. The 2 I already talked about and one old lady who has un upright 3 wheeler and comes into town and get her shopping and the last one is a â€œfat guyâ€ (not so young) who looks like he needs help on the hills>
So no I donâ€™t see young ones zooming around town on themâ€¦ the kids around here have â€˜trail bikesâ€™ with a hell of a lot more power then a 200w (or 300w or 500w) El Bike and I think they are more of a danger then some old guy coming to town for a coffee.
If the world is going to get away from the use of oil then the more people on bikes (both El and every other types of push bikes) the better.
More bikes less cars has got to be a good thing. (says one who loves his bikes)
Iâ€™ve read enough of Martinâ€™s posts to know his heart is in the right spot
But sorry Martin you still donâ€™t get my vote on wanting more laws
Get on your Raleigh 20 and go for a ride and think how lucky we are to be in a land where we donâ€™t have some tyrant telling us what we can and cannot do.
Instead of new laws what about getting the message out to car drivers that a bike (and the rider) is already protected by laws (that a lot of drivers seem un aware of).
Iâ€™ve ridden in other countries where the drivers share the road and itâ€™s so much nicer then almost being killed ever second day.
Correct in respect of the Drivers Licence. Registration is subject to a different set of rules, which are a little more lenient.
An insurer could use the licence situation to avoid a claim. I speak from my experience as a former Motor Vehicle Claims officer for a well known insurer. (and Dip.Gen.Ins Aust Ins Inst.)
Reminds me of my meeting with a touring german cycling couple a little while back, just outside Hobart.
The man asked me "Why do they throw things at us and swear at us? I had to admit that we have some idiots here. Only a few months previously I had used Tasmanias "Littering Hot Line" to report a woman who threw a can at me from her car window, in the middle of Sorell. I have been advised that she was issued with a warning letter, and placed on a list of known litterers, in case of further offences.
I'm not suggesting new laws. I'm suggesting a modification of the existing definitions for a power-assisted bicycle.
In any case, I agree with you that we need to find an effective way of getting the message out there that cyclists have legal rights and responsibilities on the road, and need to be treated fairly. At the moment the best way I can see of doing this is to make it known that you cycle everywhere, and make it seen that you cycle everywhere. Anyone who has a friend who cycles around a lot is more likely to treat cyclists on the road with greater courtesy. When any of my friends see a cyclist on the road, they instantly think of me. A number of them have approached me and asked what they should do if they see a cyclist on the road.
That's me described to a T.
Maybe after a while (like when I regain some fitness) that'll change but in the mean time
I'm keen to hear more about your workmates bike. Some pictures would be fricken' awesome as well
Kona - Blast Delux
"a house full of stuff that I hardly notice, ..."
Martin, what you are suggesting is what you think for your self, the bike you describe would suit you fine and be what you desire with your vision. Another way to look at an issue is to imagine what other peoples needs are.
While everyone on this forum is a cyclist of one form or another, many people who would be governed under these laws are not. If cheap efficient electric cycles were available as proven in nsw with the ebike many people would embrace that and do away with the smoggy petrol gusling car. While this may not increase cycling at all, it would make drivers more alert to other forms of transport and if used alot would make the air cleaner for cyclist as they were riding on the public streets
apart from making the bike more expensive by forcing them to include a complicated governing switch, which would also would make the bike less reliable. you kill all markets except for the cyclist the one customer that isn't that interested in electric bikes because he can already pedal it himself.
This law is another stealth attack by lobbyist to stop alternative forms of transport gaining a foothold
rustguard - that's not my proposal - that is what the RTA proposal is, and apparently plenty of people in Europe have been happily using the same bicycles for years.
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