Why ebikes are good / bad

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Comedian
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Comedian » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:08 pm

I think - what I failed to convey as per usual.. does it take less time or more time to service a bike or a corolla? I'd be guessing it takes longer for the bike. Certainly.. most cars don't really require much in the way of maintenance till the 4 year mark. The first few years are usually pretty cheap.

The next question is do we pay the mechanics more or less? What is the hourly rate? What about the cost of parts? Personally I reckon it's not unexpected that it could cost you more to service your bike than your corolla which probably only has to go to the dealer once a year.. :|

zebee
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby zebee » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:23 pm

Comedian wrote:
Ross wrote:
Comedian wrote:

I was passing the e-bike shop one day and thought I'll just pop and ask if they can order one for me as they sell Gazelle. So I went in there and they weren't really very interested. The female shop attendant asked questions like "when was your bike last serviced" and "where did you buy it from?" (twice). When it was clear that we didn't buy the bike from them, and they had only done the warranty brake replacement on our bike because I'd given up on them she really wasn't interested in helping. It appears that there is so much e-bike demand in BNE that they can just choose their customers - and I don't think she thought I was dependant enough to make money out of. She suggested I take the case off, read what it says and order one online.



Only guessing but... lots of bike shops have been burned by people coming in and then howling in outrage because the prices on bits are higher than ebay. They don't want to pay labour either.

I've been told point blank by bike shops that it would be way cheaper and easier for me to source the bits and bring them in.

Either way, sales failure. Not surprising, good sales are hard to find and have to be trained too. Was interesting to watch the guy who owns Sydney Electric Bikes training his sales staff. He had them roleplay and everything... was teaching them how to manage enquiries like yours. He had set scenes for them when selling new bikes, and ways to handle parts and labour queries. I bet most bike shop owners aren't much good at that part so not much good at training people.

The bike shop in Bunbury that we got my mother's folding bike at was good at sales. Again it was clearly something they'd been trained to do and were expected to do.

Zebee

mmgoy
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby mmgoy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:41 pm

Mububban wrote:
I'll never quite understand why cyclists of all people don't encourage more people to get out of cars and onto two wheels. I think ebikes are awesome and are definitely the future.


This, a million times this!
Cars are so ubiquitous we've all lost sight of how truly evil they are. And I'm not anti car, I own one too, but I am pro efficiency. And in larger cities cars do not work as a personal transport method. Mathematically you cannot build enough roads to make them work so the only workable solution is to include non-car options.
I have a 20km trip to work with a couple mammoth hills, so cycling is not practical for me. My chosen method of transport was a motorbike because it's quick, cheap, creates no traffic and I can park it for free in the centre of the city. After losing my license I bought an eBike an modded it so it works properly and I can't believe how good it is. The motor effectively eliminates the hills and cuts the distance in half. It changes the maths on how you can use a bike.
Electric vehicles are only going to get more popular, let's hope the regulations can keep up with demand.

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Mububban
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Mububban » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:13 pm

mmgoy wrote:My chosen method of transport was a motorbike because it's quick, cheap, creates no traffic and I can park it for free in the centre of the city. After losing my license I bought an eBike an modded it so it works properly and I can't believe how good it is.

Electric vehicles are only going to get more popular, let's hope the regulations can keep up with demand.


Not to be a total wowser, but you mentioned you lost your license...then you bought an ebike (yay) and modded it (illegal?). If you now have an accident of any sort, and your bike is proven to be non-conforming, you could end up in even more hot water.

All that said, ebike sales will grow and grow, more and more people will get back on two wheels and rekindle the love affair we all had with our bikes as kids, and inevitably many of those cyclists will really get bitten by the cycling bug, and will end up buying a non e-bike so they can go faster than the 25kph assistance limit. Win win. It drives me batty whenever anyone criticises ebikes when they could very well prove the "gateway drug" to changing attitudes to cycling among the general Aussie public.
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

mmgoy
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby mmgoy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:34 pm

Yeah I never was one to follow rules. If they make sense sure, but not when it's just some arbitrarily assigned number.
The fact that a lot of countries are removing the 25km/h restrictions (US, Canada, NZ) shows these laws aren't reasonable.

Joeblake
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Joeblake » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:03 pm

mmgoy wrote:Yeah I never was one to follow rules. If they make sense sure, but not when it's just some arbitrarily assigned number.
The fact that a lot of countries are removing the 25km/h restrictions (US, Canada, NZ) shows these laws aren't reasonable.



I think under some circumstances the laws are reasonable. Up until recently, the argument by car drivers has been that pedally machines shouldn't share "their" roads because they don't pay "registration" which is used to maintain the roads. I have two registered motor cycles, one 650cc BMW petrol machine and a ZEV electric scooter. Each costs me a total of $330 per year "registration" in WA - yet of that sum $233 is insurance, $23 GST on insurance and $25 duty on insurance. The amount of road that could be built from the "registration" component is minuscule. Most of the money for roads comes from other taxes - such as the excise on petroleum. With the probable rise in the number of electric vehicles (mainly cars) this means that petrol excise will reduce. How will we pay for the roads?

https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/auto/20 ... xcise-tax/

The possibility is that e-vehicles (including e-bikes) may be subject to some form of taxation to finance road building and maintenance and we should prepare ourselves, as cyclists, for that eventuality. This will probably mean that e-bikes may be subject to closer scrutiny as to things such as motor power etc, so sticking to the 250 watt limit could be useful.

I can see this becoming a big deal in the near future.
To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
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Thoglette
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Thoglette » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:04 pm

mmgoy wrote:The fact that a lot of countries are removing the 25km/h restrictions (US, Canada, NZ) shows these laws aren't reasonable.

No it doesn't. What it shows is that someone is lobbying effectively. That's all.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

mmgoy
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby mmgoy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:37 pm

Joeblake wrote:How will we pay for the roads?


The fair way would be that every user of the road pays a fee based on how much of the road they use, and how much damage they cause by using it. Since road damage is a function of vehicle weight, the true cost of running a car will become apparent.
2000kg and 10sqm vs 10kg and 1.2sqm means a road use fee multiplier of 20000 for cars vs 12 for bikes. About $1 per unit per year should cover it. :D

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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:31 am

mmgoy wrote:
Joeblake wrote:How will we pay for the roads?


The fair way would be that every user of the road pays a fee based on how much of the road they use, and how much damage they cause by using it. Since road damage is a function of vehicle weight, the true cost of running a car will become apparent.
2000kg and 10sqm vs 10kg and 1.2sqm means a road use fee multiplier of 20000 for cars vs 12 for bikes. About $1 per unit per year should cover it. :D

The road damage caused is most certainly not linear with mass and/or size. It's likely a power law with damage increasing significantly with vehicle weight.

Mike Ayling
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Mike Ayling » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:05 am

Thoglette wrote:
mmgoy wrote:The fact that a lot of countries are removing the 25km/h restrictions (US, Canada, NZ) shows these laws aren't reasonable.

No it doesn't. What it shows is that someone is lobbying effectively. That's all.


And don't hold your breath for changes in Australia any time soon!

Mike

Joeblake
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Joeblake » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:28 am

The question to me is why do we have transport? To get from point A to point B as quickly as possible. So we build thousands of km of "freeways" to keep traffic flowing - except that the biggest hold up of a car is all the other cars - the freeways don't work when they most need to. Rather than tax on vehicle weight, which, while it will damage the roads, it's a longer-term problem. The immediate problem is congestion, so I'd perhaps like a tax based on vehicle area. Congestion tax.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/660521/use ... on-charge/

Seems to be the big thing in London.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_congestion_charge
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Thoglette
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Thoglette » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:20 pm

Joeblake wrote: The immediate problem is congestion, so I'd perhaps like a tax based on vehicle area. Congestion tax.

Which benefits the well healed who can afford it.

Pity the struggling trades assistant; child care worker or member of the "gig economy", who has no choice but to commute from outer-whoop-whoop to whereever their current (below) minimum wage (on-call) job is.

The cause of the problem is poor planning.

There are some immediate answers which require both more congestion (as lanes are dedicated to public transport); more expense; and (the hard bit) effective planning and implementation by government.

But with our press "News Limited" this has zero change of getting up.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

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