Why ebikes are good / bad

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Comedian
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Comedian » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:08 pm

I think - what I failed to convey as per usual.. does it take less time or more time to service a bike or a corolla? I'd be guessing it takes longer for the bike. Certainly.. most cars don't really require much in the way of maintenance till the 4 year mark. The first few years are usually pretty cheap.

The next question is do we pay the mechanics more or less? What is the hourly rate? What about the cost of parts? Personally I reckon it's not unexpected that it could cost you more to service your bike than your corolla which probably only has to go to the dealer once a year.. :|

zebee
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby zebee » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:23 pm

Comedian wrote:
Ross wrote:
Comedian wrote:

I was passing the e-bike shop one day and thought I'll just pop and ask if they can order one for me as they sell Gazelle. So I went in there and they weren't really very interested. The female shop attendant asked questions like "when was your bike last serviced" and "where did you buy it from?" (twice). When it was clear that we didn't buy the bike from them, and they had only done the warranty brake replacement on our bike because I'd given up on them she really wasn't interested in helping. It appears that there is so much e-bike demand in BNE that they can just choose their customers - and I don't think she thought I was dependant enough to make money out of. She suggested I take the case off, read what it says and order one online.

Only guessing but... lots of bike shops have been burned by people coming in and then howling in outrage because the prices on bits are higher than ebay. They don't want to pay labour either.

I've been told point blank by bike shops that it would be way cheaper and easier for me to source the bits and bring them in.

Either way, sales failure. Not surprising, good sales are hard to find and have to be trained too. Was interesting to watch the guy who owns Sydney Electric Bikes training his sales staff. He had them roleplay and everything... was teaching them how to manage enquiries like yours. He had set scenes for them when selling new bikes, and ways to handle parts and labour queries. I bet most bike shop owners aren't much good at that part so not much good at training people.

The bike shop in Bunbury that we got my mother's folding bike at was good at sales. Again it was clearly something they'd been trained to do and were expected to do.

Zebee

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby mmgoy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:41 pm

Mububban wrote:
I'll never quite understand why cyclists of all people don't encourage more people to get out of cars and onto two wheels. I think ebikes are awesome and are definitely the future.
This, a million times this!
Cars are so ubiquitous we've all lost sight of how truly evil they are. And I'm not anti car, I own one too, but I am pro efficiency. And in larger cities cars do not work as a personal transport method. Mathematically you cannot build enough roads to make them work so the only workable solution is to include non-car options.
I have a 20km trip to work with a couple mammoth hills, so cycling is not practical for me. My chosen method of transport was a motorbike because it's quick, cheap, creates no traffic and I can park it for free in the centre of the city. After losing my license I bought an eBike an modded it so it works properly and I can't believe how good it is. The motor effectively eliminates the hills and cuts the distance in half. It changes the maths on how you can use a bike.
Electric vehicles are only going to get more popular, let's hope the regulations can keep up with demand.

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Mububban » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:13 pm

mmgoy wrote:My chosen method of transport was a motorbike because it's quick, cheap, creates no traffic and I can park it for free in the centre of the city. After losing my license I bought an eBike an modded it so it works properly and I can't believe how good it is.

Electric vehicles are only going to get more popular, let's hope the regulations can keep up with demand.
Not to be a total wowser, but you mentioned you lost your license...then you bought an ebike (yay) and modded it (illegal?). If you now have an accident of any sort, and your bike is proven to be non-conforming, you could end up in even more hot water.

All that said, ebike sales will grow and grow, more and more people will get back on two wheels and rekindle the love affair we all had with our bikes as kids, and inevitably many of those cyclists will really get bitten by the cycling bug, and will end up buying a non e-bike so they can go faster than the 25kph assistance limit. Win win. It drives me batty whenever anyone criticises ebikes when they could very well prove the "gateway drug" to changing attitudes to cycling among the general Aussie public.
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby mmgoy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:34 pm

Yeah I never was one to follow rules. If they make sense sure, but not when it's just some arbitrarily assigned number.
The fact that a lot of countries are removing the 25km/h restrictions (US, Canada, NZ) shows these laws aren't reasonable.

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Joeblake » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:03 pm

mmgoy wrote:Yeah I never was one to follow rules. If they make sense sure, but not when it's just some arbitrarily assigned number.
The fact that a lot of countries are removing the 25km/h restrictions (US, Canada, NZ) shows these laws aren't reasonable.

I think under some circumstances the laws are reasonable. Up until recently, the argument by car drivers has been that pedally machines shouldn't share "their" roads because they don't pay "registration" which is used to maintain the roads. I have two registered motor cycles, one 650cc BMW petrol machine and a ZEV electric scooter. Each costs me a total of $330 per year "registration" in WA - yet of that sum $233 is insurance, $23 GST on insurance and $25 duty on insurance. The amount of road that could be built from the "registration" component is minuscule. Most of the money for roads comes from other taxes - such as the excise on petroleum. With the probable rise in the number of electric vehicles (mainly cars) this means that petrol excise will reduce. How will we pay for the roads?

https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/auto/20 ... xcise-tax/

The possibility is that e-vehicles (including e-bikes) may be subject to some form of taxation to finance road building and maintenance and we should prepare ourselves, as cyclists, for that eventuality. This will probably mean that e-bikes may be subject to closer scrutiny as to things such as motor power etc, so sticking to the 250 watt limit could be useful.

I can see this becoming a big deal in the near future.
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Thoglette » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:04 pm

mmgoy wrote:The fact that a lot of countries are removing the 25km/h restrictions (US, Canada, NZ) shows these laws aren't reasonable.
No it doesn't. What it shows is that someone is lobbying effectively. That's all.
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mmgoy
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby mmgoy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:37 pm

Joeblake wrote: How will we pay for the roads?
The fair way would be that every user of the road pays a fee based on how much of the road they use, and how much damage they cause by using it. Since road damage is a function of vehicle weight, the true cost of running a car will become apparent.
2000kg and 10sqm vs 10kg and 1.2sqm means a road use fee multiplier of 20000 for cars vs 12 for bikes. About $1 per unit per year should cover it. :D

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:31 am

mmgoy wrote:
Joeblake wrote: How will we pay for the roads?
The fair way would be that every user of the road pays a fee based on how much of the road they use, and how much damage they cause by using it. Since road damage is a function of vehicle weight, the true cost of running a car will become apparent.
2000kg and 10sqm vs 10kg and 1.2sqm means a road use fee multiplier of 20000 for cars vs 12 for bikes. About $1 per unit per year should cover it. :D
The road damage caused is most certainly not linear with mass and/or size. It's likely a power law with damage increasing significantly with vehicle weight.

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Mike Ayling » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:05 am

Thoglette wrote:
mmgoy wrote:The fact that a lot of countries are removing the 25km/h restrictions (US, Canada, NZ) shows these laws aren't reasonable.
No it doesn't. What it shows is that someone is lobbying effectively. That's all.
And don't hold your breath for changes in Australia any time soon!

Mike
Recreational e bikes - for the sick, lame and lazy!

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Joeblake » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:28 am

The question to me is why do we have transport? To get from point A to point B as quickly as possible. So we build thousands of km of "freeways" to keep traffic flowing - except that the biggest hold up of a car is all the other cars - the freeways don't work when they most need to. Rather than tax on vehicle weight, which, while it will damage the roads, it's a longer-term problem. The immediate problem is congestion, so I'd perhaps like a tax based on vehicle area. Congestion tax.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/660521/use ... on-charge/

Seems to be the big thing in London.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_congestion_charge
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Thoglette » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:20 pm

Joeblake wrote: The immediate problem is congestion, so I'd perhaps like a tax based on vehicle area. Congestion tax.
Which benefits the well healed who can afford it.

Pity the struggling trades assistant; child care worker or member of the "gig economy", who has no choice but to commute from outer-whoop-whoop to whereever their current (below) minimum wage (on-call) job is.

The cause of the problem is poor planning.

There are some immediate answers which require both more congestion (as lanes are dedicated to public transport); more expense; and (the hard bit) effective planning and implementation by government.

But with our press "News Limited" this has zero change of getting up.
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby biker jk » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 pm

Just watched a story on 9 News of a DIY e-bike battery fire in the Adelaide hills which triggered a grass fire with the rider suffering minor burns. The bike was a rim-brake Pinarello F8 which had been modified with a rear hub motor. Oops. :lol:

Video in the link below.

https://goo.gl/4mnBv9

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby MeridaMTB » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:18 pm

I have two e mountain bikes. A Giant Full E Pro and a Merida 160 900E.
Myself and a mate who are older MX and enduro riders love the emtb's.
We average around 50kms a ride exploring places where you can not ride trail bikes.
Even days of 40C + have not deterred us from riding...we just pick a ride near the beach, lake or water hole.
I am visiting places that I have never been before and absolutely love it.In fact emtbing is a new adventure.
I would not consider a normal pedal bike for what I do because of the steep and rocky terrain as well as distances but the emtb is another world.
My local shop reports that ebikes are 45% of his sales and growing.
No matter what anyone says the e bike revolution has brought into the market riders that would never buy and use a conventional pedler.
Like PC computers it is a growing sector that will become huge.

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Thoglette » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:05 pm

MeridaMTB wrote:Myself and a mate who are older MX and enduro riders love the emtb's. We average around 50kms a ride exploring places where you can not ride trail bikes.
Welcome. Glad you're out and having fun.

Maybe stating the bleedin' obvious (as you've been around a while) but if MX bikes have been banned somewhere be careful - you may still be riding a trail bike, just a very quiet one.

It's been a bloody long time since I last read the (local) off-road vehicle rules so YMMV.

(on road, it's a bicycle only if it meets the rules for a "motor assisted bicycle", pedals, 200W or 250W+25kph, yadda yadda)
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Calvin27 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:42 pm

MeridaMTB wrote:I have two e mountain bikes. A Giant Full E Pro and a Merida 160 900E.
Myself and a mate who are older MX and enduro riders love the emtb's.
We average around 50kms a ride exploring places where you can not ride trail bikes.
Even days of 40C + have not deterred us from riding...we just pick a ride near the beach, lake or water hole.
I am visiting places that I have never been before and absolutely love it.In fact emtbing is a new adventure.
I would not consider a normal pedal bike for what I do because of the steep and rocky terrain as well as distances but the emtb is another world.
I ride my ebike like that as well. We can knock out an easy 150km day on fire roads or about 70km in half a day and back before lunch for family needs.

One of the good things I notice with ebiking is that we generally explore more. Take that obscure turn knowing that the full mtb toughness can handle it and that we won't have to flog it to get back. Quite different from pedal power where not everyone is the same level of fit so it makes a difference if we are doing 50km or 70km with unknown gradients.
Heavy road bike
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby craigg » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:03 pm

I'm of the opinion that ebikes as defined in Australia are a good thing, however emotorcycles masquerading as ebikes are an abomination mainly due to the way they are ridden. For whatever reason emotorcycles (at least in WA) seem to be purchased and ridden by morons and it's sad that this behavior tarnishes ebikes.

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Panzer04 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:47 pm

I figured I'd sign up and toss in my 2c as a person who exclusively got back into using bikes as a result of my interest in ebikes - I am more of an enthusiast in the motorisation/electrification aspect, which lead to me becoming more interested in biking itself. Considering most people here were active cyclists first, I expect my PoV will be very different.

After writing I realised I waffled on a fair bit, here's the core of my view.
TL:DR;
-Rules should address rider behaviour, rather than the vehicle
-More powerful ebikes should be permitted, in the same areas as regular bicycles
-Practically speaking there needs to be some power limit, but it should be higher than 250W
-Perhaps a more intermediate classification of vehicle between bike and motorcycle

I bought a cheap 1000W ebay kit (that uses 1500W..) and batteries for it. All up, it cost me about 600$ or so to kit up my old MTB with it. I didn't bother with the included pedal assist, since cadence sensors aren't all that good at providing useful PAS capability. I use throttle controls only. After using it for a little while, it seems to me that by far the biggest sticking point is in the rider. Ridden by a reasonable person to the conditions, an ebike is no different to a normal bike, but gives you a lot of flexibility and confidence in getting out and about. I did end up needing to upgrade the brakes on my bike, since the old ones simply weren't up to the task of stopping the bike from speed reliably.

Obviously if you are riding in shared space (With slower bikes/people nearby), in my opinion, the expectation is minimal to no use of the motor. Riding safely is the priority (I don't want to hit people or put myself into difficult situations any more than you do) . If the area is clear, and you aren't near other people, I have no qualms using my bike to it's full capacity (~45 km/h on the flat). Even then, I often don't even use the motor, and just enjoy the ride with the confidence that if I get tired I can get back home relatively easily.

I disagree with people who want to apply full motorcycle regulations to ebikes. Ebikes are easier to ride, more manoeuvrable and even a 1500W system is nowhere near the power of a small motorbike. They are lighter, and can (despite exaggerations) be genuinely ridden peddle only, even if they are quite powerful. They're also quiet, which is very relevant, since it's not as disruptive to other people nearby. It's unfortunate that the behaviour of a few might result in even more restrictions for those who ride safely and reasonably. I personally regard the current rules as pretty draconian, and somewhat thankful that they basically won't be enforced so long as you ride sensibly and don't act like an idiot.

A bit of an addendum to the above - it really comes down to how powerful a setup is "reasonable". If it were up to me, pretty much any setup would be ok so long as it's ridden safely. Obviously, there's going to be quite a bit of disagreement with me there, since once you get up to ebikes that can do 3Kw+ you are looking at vehicles capable of small motorcycle performance. To me, that's fine to be allowed, but actually using power like that would be pretty restricted, since it would result in unsafe usage (sort of like actually flooring it with a car, or travelling above the speed limit - very rarely does one actually do that). I understand a lot of other people would disagree, however.

I suppose the argument comes down to how one regards the right to use public paths, tracks and areas. Just because that has traditionally meant unpowered bicycles and pedestrians doesn't necessarily mean it needs to stay that way. Personally, as long as someone doesn't disrupt other people in their usage, I have no problem with them doing whatever they like. However, honestly speaking, my bike could absolutely be dangerous, given how easy it is to ride at 40km/h+, but that goes for pretty much any vehicle one could name. I don't think that that should remove my right to be able to use it as I would any other bike, in spaces where bikes are normally accepted, so long as I am sensible in riding it.

I can understand reservations against my perspective, since it makes no definition between conventional bikes and what are, essentially, motor vehicles allowed off conventional roads. I agree with the general consensus that:
- 250W electric bikes are very much just regular bikes with a bit of oomph added.
- Bikes with 1500W motors can be used like bikes, just with another ~10-15 KG worth of equipment that lets them be used as what amounts to a motor vehicle.
I disagree with the argument that this should result in more powerful electric bikes from being forbidden from using space where regular bikes are usually permitted. Practically speaking there would need to be an eventual limitation that would see an "ebike" be a motorbike, but the current restrictions are way too far off in one direction, I think (250W really is a pittance).

Honestly, i'd be alright with a sort of middle ground that saw more powerful bikes as an "inbetween" class that might require some form of checkup of the basics, like brake capability, motor/battery mounting, etc and, perhaps, a license to permit use in more public environments? Basically something inbetween "regular" bicycles and full blown motorbike rules.

In my experience, people against more powerful ebikes generally do so from a perspective that they should, in most respects, be fundamentally the same as a regular bike, and that only regular bikes have any right to normal tracks and paths - Anything more powerful should simply be classified as a real motorbike with the associated restrictions (Even if they aren't anywhere near as capable as a motorcycle). To be clear, that's a fair view, I just happen to disagree :)

A bit of a wall of text, but I had to put my thoughts down, as someone who was an electric bike enthusiast first.

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The Fixer
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby The Fixer » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:00 pm

Well said, Panzer.

I would tend to basically agree.
I don't care if it's a $20 Huffy or a $20k Colnago, as long as you're riding, and you're happy.

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby zebee » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:44 pm

The issue with "behaviour not gear" is enforcement. That's why there are a lot of speeding and redlight and over 08 fines but no one gets done for anything else.

Once it gets down to "But I didn't" or "it was safe" or "prove it" then that's time and effort for the cops and it's too damn hard. You might be able to do 60kmh on the footpath but will not, the other bloke does and scares the !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! out of people who are no longer happy to walk outside their own home. The cops aren't there, and it's damn hard for anyone to prove. So how does the guy get prosecuted?

If he can't do 60kmh at all then problem solved.

Every ticket fought is a cop off for half a day to go to court, a prosecutor, court time, all that. It's not cheap for the taxpayer. Plus how do people get caught in the first place? Think about the standard of proof you would want if you were accused of something. A few seconds of footage that don't show your face? Doubt it.

So what is your solution for how these behaviours are to be found and proven that don't include finding, training, and deploying a police officer for every few hundred people 18 hours a day, and don't include witness testimony and court cases costing taxpayers several thousand dollars each offence.

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Comedian » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:44 pm

So I've had an e-bike for the last 5 or 6 years (can't remember). It's not an e-MTB, just a commuter. It's not mine - it's the family e-bike. I think they are remarkable for getting around the suburbs.

Anyway.. up until recently we've seen steadily increasing numbers in Brisbane. However - anecdotally they seem to be "exploding" in numbers recently.

I do a commute that takes me through gap creek MTB trails and then into town via the western freeway. It's not uncommon for me to see over half the MTB's I see on a weekday morning being e-mtb's. On the western freeway coming into town - the numbers are definitively less .. perhaps more like a quarter or a third. However when you include "e-devices" that also seem to be booming since "Lime" it's quite a turnaround. They have gone from the occasional sighting to the norm now.

FWIW I'm not super sure if the e-MTB's have had the speed limiters removed. However virtually all the e-bikes I see on the commute have had them removed. They clearly have access to assistance well above the 25k. I can't remember when I last saw one sitting on 25..

I saw this video recently. Have a listen for the numbers. amazing.

[shareyoutube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaes87EvYsw[/shareyoutube]

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby biker jk » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:24 pm

Panzer04 wrote:I figured I'd sign up and toss in my 2c as a person who exclusively got back into using bikes as a result of my interest in ebikes - I am more of an enthusiast in the motorisation/electrification aspect, which lead to me becoming more interested in biking itself. Considering most people here were active cyclists first, I expect my PoV will be very different.

After writing I realised I waffled on a fair bit, here's the core of my view.
TL:DR;
-Rules should address rider behaviour, rather than the vehicle
-More powerful ebikes should be permitted, in the same areas as regular bicycles
-Practically speaking there needs to be some power limit, but it should be higher than 250W
-Perhaps a more intermediate classification of vehicle between bike and motorcycle

I bought a cheap 1000W ebay kit (that uses 1500W..) and batteries for it. All up, it cost me about 600$ or so to kit up my old MTB with it. I didn't bother with the included pedal assist, since cadence sensors aren't all that good at providing useful PAS capability. I use throttle controls only. After using it for a little while, it seems to me that by far the biggest sticking point is in the rider. Ridden by a reasonable person to the conditions, an ebike is no different to a normal bike, but gives you a lot of flexibility and confidence in getting out and about. I did end up needing to upgrade the brakes on my bike, since the old ones simply weren't up to the task of stopping the bike from speed reliably.

Obviously if you are riding in shared space (With slower bikes/people nearby), in my opinion, the expectation is minimal to no use of the motor. Riding safely is the priority (I don't want to hit people or put myself into difficult situations any more than you do) . If the area is clear, and you aren't near other people, I have no qualms using my bike to it's full capacity (~45 km/h on the flat). Even then, I often don't even use the motor, and just enjoy the ride with the confidence that if I get tired I can get back home relatively easily.

I disagree with people who want to apply full motorcycle regulations to ebikes. Ebikes are easier to ride, more manoeuvrable and even a 1500W system is nowhere near the power of a small motorbike. They are lighter, and can (despite exaggerations) be genuinely ridden peddle only, even if they are quite powerful. They're also quiet, which is very relevant, since it's not as disruptive to other people nearby. It's unfortunate that the behaviour of a few might result in even more restrictions for those who ride safely and reasonably. I personally regard the current rules as pretty draconian, and somewhat thankful that they basically won't be enforced so long as you ride sensibly and don't act like an idiot.

A bit of an addendum to the above - it really comes down to how powerful a setup is "reasonable". If it were up to me, pretty much any setup would be ok so long as it's ridden safely. Obviously, there's going to be quite a bit of disagreement with me there, since once you get up to ebikes that can do 3Kw+ you are looking at vehicles capable of small motorcycle performance. To me, that's fine to be allowed, but actually using power like that would be pretty restricted, since it would result in unsafe usage (sort of like actually flooring it with a car, or travelling above the speed limit - very rarely does one actually do that). I understand a lot of other people would disagree, however.

I suppose the argument comes down to how one regards the right to use public paths, tracks and areas. Just because that has traditionally meant unpowered bicycles and pedestrians doesn't necessarily mean it needs to stay that way. Personally, as long as someone doesn't disrupt other people in their usage, I have no problem with them doing whatever they like. However, honestly speaking, my bike could absolutely be dangerous, given how easy it is to ride at 40km/h+, but that goes for pretty much any vehicle one could name. I don't think that that should remove my right to be able to use it as I would any other bike, in spaces where bikes are normally accepted, so long as I am sensible in riding it.

I can understand reservations against my perspective, since it makes no definition between conventional bikes and what are, essentially, motor vehicles allowed off conventional roads. I agree with the general consensus that:
- 250W electric bikes are very much just regular bikes with a bit of oomph added.
- Bikes with 1500W motors can be used like bikes, just with another ~10-15 KG worth of equipment that lets them be used as what amounts to a motor vehicle.
I disagree with the argument that this should result in more powerful electric bikes from being forbidden from using space where regular bikes are usually permitted. Practically speaking there would need to be an eventual limitation that would see an "ebike" be a motorbike, but the current restrictions are way too far off in one direction, I think (250W really is a pittance).

Honestly, i'd be alright with a sort of middle ground that saw more powerful bikes as an "inbetween" class that might require some form of checkup of the basics, like brake capability, motor/battery mounting, etc and, perhaps, a license to permit use in more public environments? Basically something inbetween "regular" bicycles and full blown motorbike rules.

In my experience, people against more powerful ebikes generally do so from a perspective that they should, in most respects, be fundamentally the same as a regular bike, and that only regular bikes have any right to normal tracks and paths - Anything more powerful should simply be classified as a real motorbike with the associated restrictions (Even if they aren't anywhere near as capable as a motorcycle). To be clear, that's a fair view, I just happen to disagree :)

A bit of a wall of text, but I had to put my thoughts down, as someone who was an electric bike enthusiast first.
So you ride an illegal motor vehicle yet say we should trust you to behave safely. :roll:

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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby NOVISCOTT » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:51 pm

Confession time. My ebike is unlimited. But i don't agree it should be Carte Blanche on regulations. 25kmph is setting the bar too low. Aligning with the 20mph / 32kmph would be more practical and reduce the instances of tampering.

An unlimited 250W pedelec bike is no more capable than a fit rider. I have had more close calls from Tour de France wannabe pelotons on the M7 path than ebikes. And unlimiting my bike allows me to maintain decent pace on the sections of 50kmph road on my commute to keep myself out of trouble and not infuriating traffic. Yes I agree they should show more patience and realise the 3 seconds I have cost them is immaterial to my safety, but we live in the world we live.

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Comedian
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby Comedian » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:53 pm

NOVISCOTT wrote:Confession time. My ebike is unlimited. But i don't agree it should be Carte Blanche on regulations. 25kmph is setting the bar too low. Aligning with the 20mph / 32kmph would be more practical and reduce the instances of tampering.

An unlimited 250W pedelec bike is no more capable than a fit rider. I have had more close calls from Tour de France wannabe pelotons on the M7 path than ebikes. And unlimiting my bike allows me to maintain decent pace on the sections of 50kmph road on my commute to keep myself out of trouble and not infuriating traffic. Yes I agree they should show more patience and realise the 3 seconds I have cost them is immaterial to my safety, but we live in the world we live.
FWIW I think the current standard of 25k limit and 250w probably works well in Europe. Alas - in Aus we don't have direct and connected cycle paths so journeys are longer, and we often have to "share the roads" with cars and at 25k you sure feel like a sitting duck. In the case of BNE, we also have lots of heat and hills which essentially means 250w is inadequate for cargo bikes.

So, I would support a 20mph (32k) and 500w limit. I can't see it happening in the near future though. The decisions on these things are typically made by bureaucrats who don't ride, or best case by MAMILS who ride for sport, and don't see an issue with what rules we have now. They certainly don't see why anyone would want a cargo bike when we have cars.

Having said that I've never heard of there ever being enforced. It's a shame though that if the rule is universally ignored then it probably should be examined. I guess where do you stop? There is one of these scooters downstairs at the moment.. 55kph max and weighs 40kg. We also have a skateboard that does 40+kph...

https://www.scoota-online.com.au/produc ... um-at.html

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RonK
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Re: Why ebikes are good / bad

Postby RonK » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:43 pm

I can pedal my e-bike (on the flats) up to 30kph with a bit of effort. Downhill it’s faster than many unpowered bikes.
How would Police ever know if an e-bike is unrestricted? Mine is, but I would defy you to prove it.
Restricted e-bikes cutting out at 25 kph is right in the sweet spot and makes it uncomfortable to keep up with my buddies over distance. While that remains the rule people will find ways to disable the restrictions.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

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